[studio54]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

Hi guys

By looking at the stage 2 V10 logs post by tej98 it seem's that the stage 2 target less boost than stage 1+.
Seem's that stage 2 target around 15psi up to 5300rpm then taper to 13 at 6000rpm when stage 1+ target 16.5 psi and taper to 14.5/15 at 6000 rpm.

So my question is, why do i need DP with stage 2 and not stage 1+?
Could I run stage 2 on my car whithout DP (i have wagner evo1 FMIC)?

thanks

Hey,

I think boost targets are really depending on temperatures and lots of other factors, are you comparing your Stage 1+ logs with Stage 2 tej98 logs ?

That said, on MHD website, you can see that Stage 1+ will yield a little more power than Stage 2 :

"
Stage 1 (up to 360HP/520NM) - 91oct/95ron, 93oct/98ron, 95oct/102ron, for stock cars.
Stage 1+ (up to 390HP/600NM) - 91oct/95ron, 93oct/98ron, 95oct/102ron, FMIC recommended.
Stage 2 (up to 380HP/560NM) - 91oct/95ron, 93oct/98ron, 95oct/102ron, high-flow downpipes recommended.
Stage 2+ (up to 420HP/650NM) - 91oct/95ron, 93oct/98ron, 95oct/102ron, high-flow downpipes + FMIC recommended.
"

It looks like Stage 1 has to be compared with Stage 2, and Stage 1+ with Stage 2+.

On + versions, the FMIC allows maps to push more boost, more consistently because IATs will remain (should at least) stable.

I think if you are looking for the best power, you might be better staying on Stage 1+ that is designed for your parts than going on Stage 2.

However, power difference must be minimal, the difference in PSI figures is not dramatic cause Stage 2 PSI will be probably more effective without catalytic converter (I mean maybe 15 psi with a catless dp is better than 15 psi with cats because of backpressure), and ours cars target on load, not boost. Same power with less stress on turbos with catless dps.

That's my theory and I am maybe wrong, but if you have a draggy or something, you can still compare them. So, concerning your question, you should be able to run the stage 2 map without issues but it will probably be a bit slower than Stage 1+.

[vadonchez]

thanks for reply

I'm looking for the best reliability/power ratio instead of pure power .
Actually my car run V10 stage 1 E50 and run pretty strong.
I found V10 1+ high rpm boost a bit too high for stock turbo wich are design to supply around 12psi at 6000rpm to stay in the safe area.

Looking at my stage 1+ boost i found 14.5/15 psi at 6000rpm.

This is why i took a look at tej98 logs and see that stage 2 seems taper more at high rpm and ask for less boost than 1+.

So for me stage 2 could be the compromise between stage 1 and stage 1+.

But mhd says that stage 2 need DP because of backpressure I imagine.
But i don't understand how backpressure could be more important with less boost target

As you said I could try and make a log to compare.

And my car is a z4 35IS. i read somewhere that the DP are not the same as 335i and less restrictive but not certain if it's true....

[studio54]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

But mhd says that stage 2 need DP because of backpressure I imagine.
But i don't understand how backpressure could be more important with less boost target

I don't know if they explicitly say it's just because of backpressure. It may just be a compromise/clever mix to be at the "maximum" while staying consistent and conservative, by taking into account the presence or not of a FMIC/cat less DP.

There are also other parameters in maps than boost, like timings, fuel and so on.

I believe that Stage 2 is just at a close limit to what the stock FMIC could handle in term of IATs. Reduced backpressure let the map achieve almost same power/load target than Stage 1+ with less boost target.

Without cats, the reduced backpressure will also reduce the turbo temperature, and they will work easier cause no restriction. If you put the Stage 2 boost, in a Stage 1 (meaning no catless DP, and no FMIC) turbos will have to work against thoses cat restriction, generating more heat, more IAT, maybe one or two pulls and you're good to have some timing corrections.

And same thing, imagine if they put Stage 1+ boost targets in a Stage 2 with a stock FMIC, it will work for first WOTs, then IATs will skyrocket and generate a lot of timing corrections.

Concerning running Stage 2 without catless DP but with a FMIC (which induce a pressure drop taken into account in Stage 1+ that is not on Stage 2), it will probably be a bit safer on turbos, but be a bit slower than Stage 1+.

You can try, I think there are no risk at all.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

thanks for reply

I'm looking for the best reliability/power ratio instead of pure power .
Actually my car run V10 stage 1 E50 and run pretty strong.
I found V10 1+ high rpm boost a bit too high for stock turbo wich are design to supply around 12psi at 6000rpm to stay in the safe area.

Looking at my stage 1+ boost i found 14.5/15 psi at 6000rpm.

This is why i took a look at tej98 logs and see that stage 2 seems taper more at high rpm and ask for less boost than 1+.

So for me stage 2 could be the compromise between stage 1 and stage 1+.

But mhd says that stage 2 need DP because of backpressure I imagine.
But i don't understand how backpressure could be more important with less boost target

As you said I could try and make a log to compare.

And my car is a z4 35IS. i read somewhere that the DP are not the same as 335i and less restrictive but not certain if it's true....

Been running stage 1+ for years, never had any issues, 14-15 psi at 6000rpm is not going to kill your turbos asap. 12psi feels pretty dead at the top to me. You should be looking at something like WGDC more than just boost to judge if a tune is too aggressive, 50-60% is pretty Conservative, all of the OTS tunes are. That said stock turbos will eventually die and they have their fare share of issues.

[vadonchez]

ok thanks guys for your advices.

I will first give a try to V7.1 93oct then i will try stage 2 V10 and take my final decision.

[vadonchez]

hi

I finally tried both V7.1 stage 1+ 93oct and V10 stage 2 93 oct

For me the winner is V10 stage 2.

V7.1 is not as powerful as V10 for sure.
YEs it has a kick at very low rpm but personnaly it's not my taste because after kick power feels low it's more "psychological" than true but that's what i feel.
V10 stage 2 is more linear than V10 1+. On my logs it target around 14.5 psi flat where 1+ target 16psi up to 5000rpm tapering to 14.5 at 6000rpm. To me it feels more "natural" like a big naturally aspired engine .Because stage 2 is less powerful on low rpm i feel more power up to high rpm, here it's again psychological i know that in reality that's not the case.

I think I preferred stage 2 vs 1+ but in every case my taste is for V10 vs V7 or V9.

Another thing I tried is to load stage 0 and made some logs.
I was surprised to see that my 35is boost is only 11.5psi up to 5100 rpm tapering to 9psi at 6000. I never succeed to see any "overboost" function in my logs.
I wa suprised too to see that 1M E82 oem tune seem's more agressive than 35is oem tune:

STAGE 0 log from my Z4 35IS:
https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/stage...og=0&data=3-21

STAGE 2 V10 93 from my 35IS:
https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/v10-s...-9-10-11-12-21

STAGE 0 for 1M E82 found on the web:
https://datazap.me/u/mahlzeit/log-16...=0&data=3-4-21

[Sav.]

Was having cyl 2 misfire but it cleared after injector cleaner in 2 tanks of fuel. My car does not like MHD at all anymore even "stock with MHD" won't run right at all. Long cranks followed by 2A9A"inlet camshaft sync" and 3100 codes "DME boost deactivation". On the stock map without MHD installed fires up the smoothest I've heard, pulls hard. Not sure where to go from here are far as diagnosing.

[roadkillrob]

Originally Posted by Sav.

Was having cyl 2 misfire but it cleared after injector cleaner in 2 tanks of fuel. My car does not like MHD at all anymore even "stock with MHD" won't run right at all. Long cranks followed by 2A9A"inlet camshaft sync" and 3100 codes "DME boost deactivation". On the stock map without MHD installed fires up the smoothest I've heard, pulls hard. Not sure where to go from here are far as diagnosing.

Have you tried a full flash back to stock (20 min write) and then reinstall MHD with the full 20 minute write - I had a weird situation where I flashed it to MHD stage 0 to get inspected and the car barely ran had misfires, made like no boost, felt like it had 100 hp max and the fix was to write it back to stock then reinstall MHD and all was good again.

[Sam335iE92]

Hi,

What is the current deal with flex fuel? My car is going in the shop to get a bigger lpfp and flex fuel as that’s what they recommend!

Is flex fuel not supported for ethonal in the new V10 maps? Is there a certain brand I should try steer clear of? What’s the ins and outs of flex fuel as I really want to make the correct call here. Plus it’s a lot of extra money if I can’t use it!

[meech]

Anyone currently running the v10 stage 2+ e50 mix & got any feedbacks ?

[sbmws]

Just tried v10 Stage 2+ e30

Am getting the throttle closures and also weird shifts in D & S mode, might be clashing with my XHP tune

Does this go away after a few hundred kms?

Was running v7 Stage 2+ 98 and v5 E40 just fine

[vadonchez]

Had throttle closure too when i was on v10 around 4k RPM.
You could try to reset adaptation and see....
I agree with you that shifts are more "harsh" on v10 compare to v7 .
Had too much post shift correction on v10 with my dct 35is.
With v7 everything IS pretty good so i stay on v7 2+ e40.

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by sjbmw

Just tried v10 Stage 2+ e30

Am getting the throttle closures and also weird shifts in D & S mode, might be clashing with my XHP tune

Does this go away after a few hundred kms?

Was running v7 Stage 2+ 98 and v5 E40 just fine

It does not go away. I hate V10. Did not mesh well with my xhp either. I talked to Ken and they did make some shift changes for v10. Mine would always lunge forward on shifts and would not even shift smooth during normal driving.
I also went back to v7 and every aspect of the tune is so much better.

[sbmws]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

Had throttle closure too when i was on v10 around 4k RPM.
You could try to reset adaptation and see....
I agree with you that shifts are more "harsh" on v10 compare to v7 .
Had too much post shift correction on v10 with my dct 35is.
With v7 everything IS pretty good so i stay on v7 2+ e40.

Post shift corrections in your logs?

Were you getting throttle closures too?

I’ve got a track day coming up and am just looking for a reliable map

I’ve run V5 E40 before for fun but don’t want to blow my turbos 😂 might give V7 E40 a crack

[sbmws]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Bro

It does not go away. I hate V10. Did not mesh well with my xhp either. I talked to Ken and they did make some shift changes for v10. Mine would always lunge forward on shifts and would not even shift smooth during normal driving.
I also went back to v7 and every aspect of the tune is so much better.

Normal mode seems fine when driving gently

But S and manual mode is super jerky like you say

Surprising that after a year they haven’t sorted this out or released a V11

sounds like V7 E40 is the go for now then

[sbmws]

Some logs I did after 3-4 adaptive runs and a few hrs apart once fuel mix was sorted and allowed to settle in the tank


First v10.1 Stg 2+ E30


https://datazap.me/u/sj/v101-stg-2-e30?log=0&data=3-18


Then v7.1 Stg 2+ E40



https://datazap.me/u/sj/v71-stg-2-e40?log=0&data=3-18

v7 is also doing slight throttle closures to manage over boosting but nowhere near as big and the timing corrections seem far less


I also prefer that v7 tapers off boost in the high revs vs v10 making my tired snails work overtime to try maintain that 18psi boost target

[vadonchez]

Originally Posted by sjbmw

Post shift corrections in your logs?

Were you getting throttle closures too?

I’ve got a track day coming up and am just looking for a reliable map

I’ve run V5 E40 before for fun but don’t want to blow my turbos 😂 might give V7 E40 a crack

Yes you Can see those post shift correction in my logs in my previous posts.
I had UP to -10° of correction on random cylinder on shift and i could feel the lack of power

V7 Is less powerfull but power is always here.
V7 close throttle a little bit to tame overboost AT the first boost bump after wot but thats it.

Shame because i really was in love with v10 smooth and very powerfull in lower rpm range.

Hpfp seems to be less stress too with v7.

When i look at v7 log i Can see that throttle does not Close during shift where it does with v10 and v9.
For me the fact that throttle is closing during shift seems to be link with timing correction on dct gearbox.

[vadonchez]

Originally Posted by sjbmw

Some logs I did after 3-4 adaptive runs and a few hrs apart once fuel mix was sorted and allowed to settle in the tank


First v10.1 Stg 2+ E30

http://https://datazap.me/u/sj/v101-...og=0&data=3-18

Then v7.1 Stg 2+ E40

http://https://datazap.me/u/sj/v71-s...og=0&data=3-18


v7 is also doing slight throttle closures to manage over boosting but nowhere near as big and the timing corrections seem far less


I also prefer that v7 tapers off boost in the high revs vs v10 making my tired snails work overtime to try maintain that 18psi boost target

Links doesnt works....

[sbmws]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

Links doesnt works....

Thanks, Not sure what was going on, I’ve just reuploaded the links



First v10.1 Stg 2+ E30

https://datazap.me/u/sj/v101-stg-2-e30?log=0&data=3-18




Then v7.1 Stg 2+ E40

https://datazap.me/u/sj/v71-stg-2-e40?log=0&data=3-18

[vadonchez]

ok your v7 log is better than v10 where you have too much throttle closure and too much timing correction on multiple cylinders.
Add the fact that on v10 your WGDC increase up to 82%

on v7 log you still have small TC on the entire rpm rang but far less, same for timing and your wgdc stay below 60%.

Take a look at my last V7.1 2+ E40 log, i still have timing correction but only on one cylinder.I have no TC.My WGDC is a little bit higher than yours up to 5600rpm.

https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/v71-2...10-11-12-21-24

[sbmws]

Did another run today much warmer weather

Less throttle closures for me

https://datazap.me/u/sj/v71-e40-hot-day?log=0&data=3-18

[sbmws]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

ok your v7 log is better than v10 where you have too much throttle closure and too much timing correction on multiple cylinders.
Add the fact that on v10 your WGDC increase up to 82%

on v7 log you still have small TC on the entire rpm rang but far less, same for timing and your wgdc stay below 60%.

Take a look at my last V7.1 2+ E40 log, i still have timing correction but only on one cylinder.I have no TC.My WGDC is a little bit higher than yours up to 5600rpm.

https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/v71-2...10-11-12-21-24

Yeah V10 really over works our stock Turbos by targeting 18psi to redline

Probably not as big a killer as V5 but not far off I reckon

I’m going to stick with V7 E40


Your timing looks better than mine
Apart from that one big drop on cylinder 2

I’m getting multiple timing corrections
I might need to add a bit more E85 maybe to help with fueling