[5soko]

SNIZ, I think i might be able to break into the 11's with my car, with a bit of luck and good driving.
I ran a stock 335i once and i did begin to pull ever so slightly, does that make mine a factory freak!

Cmon guys lets be serious, these cars can vary in power what, 10-15WHP max!!!! That isnt enough to gain 4MPH down the strip or more, HOTROD with his good driving and solid setup has done this for him.
Every track/driver is different, some setups are slower and other faster. HOTROD has shown that with his solid setup on race map/ race gas used at its full potential can really do.

A good driver running:

-AT tranny
Easy/hard launches, build boost and can hold boost in between shifts from what i hear
-DR- Put all the power down/good grip
-JB3 on the race map(more so powerful then the current customer versions on 1.2), with race gas- one of the most powerful tunes to run currently.

These all make a very good setup, a good track, along with a good driver to help can def. make the time claims.
I mean lets be serious, with what i just explained and NOS, his times would be ALOT faster.


P.s.
Jason, a JB3 135i owner, on a Default 1.1v map on DR's which he wasnt able to heat up and use to there full potential had a 60' of 1.93, and on pump gas ran a 12.317@114.43mph. This was on 2-3 passes he made i believe. With a better hook up and a more passes, he was certain he would be able to break into the 11's.
Now just imagine this car with race gas on the race map with good hooking up, good track prep, cooler air and low DA!

[badass335]

Maybe the car's not a factory freak but just has a special map running? Or maybe it is a factory freak and the special map allows the 10 - 15% performance difference people are talking about.

From what I have seen, few people have broken into the 11's on the 335/ 135's. Only people I see breaking into the 117+ mph range are the tuners and now 2 people. (Hotrod182) and the V3 135 that Shiv was 'special' tuning.

As Terry mentions, on 2 people are running this map hence the only JB3 users with this extreme high trap speed.

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Not many people are running the JB3 map Warren has. Only myself, him, and I let Mr5 try it once.

Either way, Congrats on the time and run man! I'd love to have that run 'under my belt'

[BlkSapphire]

I love this thread. I know I shouldn't but it makes me laugh and I'm enjoying following all the drama. No dog in the hunt myself, just a BMW owner considering buying a piggyback.

Here are my thoughts:

1) This looks bad for Shiv and his business. I emailed him several weeks ago hoping to get some questions answered so I could drop my hard earned cash on a ProCede. No reply yet, it's been over a month. Watching him go back and forth over this nonsense, when he can't bother replying to a potential customer for over a month, suggests that his business isn't run like a business I want to be a customer of.

2) Bench racing sucks. I find it hard to believe that anyone claiming the experience that Shiv does, doesn't know that. That means that Shiv knows he shouldn't be talking smack about someone else's car, but he does it anyway. Unprofessional and unwise.

3) You guys who are saying "Oh I could look under the hood and spot a nitrous set up right away" don't know much about NOS and how it is used in the real world. You know those guys who spend like 9950125 hours polishing and waxing every square millimeter of their cars, going into the very back of the wheel well where no one will ever see, and applying $2500 Swissvax wax there with their finger because a Q-tip is too rough? Well there are guys out there who have taken the art of NOS concealment to that same level. I have seen musclecar engines where you had to get the engine out of the bay on a hoist and take off a number of hoses and other parts to even know there was a NOS setup, because the NOS setup existed entirely inside otherwise-stock-appearing engine parts that had been altered to accomodate it.

The people who do this do it partly for the fun and the pride of being able to conceal it so well, but they also do it because they can boast that their cars will do absurd things that no non-nitrous engine could do, and then collect a lot of money winning the bets that get thrown down. Do they even still publish Car Craft anymore? That's what all those guys used to read, and then laugh about how primitive the published articles were, and then go out and rip up the local street raceway (it was Fletcher Pkwy in San Diego, that was a lot of years ago.) If Shiv was really a tech steward he ought to know about this too, and it sounds like he does, but he's not doing a very good job of communicating it.

4) It's generally not cool to call someone a liar when you're trying to run a business and present a professional face to the community. Even if they're liars. You won't make any friends that way. Insulting people who live with their parents doesn't win any points either.

5) What exactly is a "factory freak?" And what kind of racer would be so keen to get rid of a car that outtrapped similarly-configured cars by 10mph? A racer who knew he'd etched his pistons, rings, bores and valves with nitrous and/or overboost and wanted to get rid of the car before it blew totally. The only truly unsurprising thing about this whole story is that the car's for sale.

6) If I were going to buy a tune tomorrow, and maybe I am, it'd be a JB3. Why? Not because Warren's car traps 120; not because the JB3 is better or faster or cheaper; mainly because Terry answers my emails and understands about being a customer-oriented business.

Now where's that dead horse, I have a baseball bat here and maybe if I beat it enough it'll get up and I can ride it..

[Mr. 5]

Yep, I tried that map.
To be honest, it was too crazy for myself.
This map should be called the "I need an LSD map"

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

SNIZ, I think i might be able to break into the 11's with my car, with a bit of luck and good driving.
I ran a stock 335i once and i did begin to pull ever so slightly, does that make mine a factory freak!

Cmon guys lets be serious, these cars can vary in power what, 10-15WHP max!!!! That isnt enough to gain 4MPH down the strip or more, HOTROD with his good driving and solid setup has done this for him.
Every track/driver is different, some setups are slower and other faster. HOTROD has shown that with his solid setup on race map/ race gas used at its full potential can really do.

A good driver running:

-AT tranny
Easy/hard launches, build boost and can hold boost in between shifts from what i hear
-DR- Put all the power down/good grip
-JB3 on the race map(more so powerful then the current customer versions on 1.2), with race gas- one of the most powerful tunes to run currently.

These all make a very good setup, a good track, along with a good driver to help can def. make the time claims.
I mean lets be serious, with what i just explained and NOS, his times would be ALOT faster.


P.s.
Jason, a JB3 135i owner, on a Default 1.1v map on DR's which he wasnt able to heat up and use to there full potential had a 60' of 1.93, and on pump gas ran a 12.317@114.43mph. This was on 2-3 passes he made i believe. With a better hook up and a more passes, he was certain he would be able to break into the 11's.
Now just imagine this car with race gas on the race map with good hooking up, good track prep, cooler air and low DA!

You are already a great bench racer, now maybe you can go to the track and let us know what happened

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

I did congratulate him on being in the 11s... I just want to know what he meant by "minimal modifications".

Knowing that he works at a BMW dealership, and knowing that his turbos have been replaced based on his past threads, just led me to ask if he thinks that any of this might be contributing to his "factory" freak.

Once again, congrats, its awesome to see a customer 335 in the 11's. I just wanna know WHY the OP had his turbos replaced on the car... I am guessing it was a warranty issue.

-Rick

That car with the blown turbos was the black coupe in that picture. Not my car, and not my white sedan, thank goodness. The only aftermarket parts on my car on the wheels/tires, fuel, and tune. I consider that "minimal modifications." Didn't mean for it to be taken for scrutinizing interpretation! In fact when Shiv and KTDW came over, and I opened the airbox lid for them, I was told how you could modify the airbox lid for more flow, etc. It was quite evident mine was totally stock. The car hasn't had wrench on it by me for anything but the wheels, and tune. Period! Not one radiator hose clamp, not one down pipe, intercooler pipe, etc, has ever been touched by me. Never had a reason to. Car runs fine as it is. The car has had a new HPFP not because it was faulty, but because of the recall. Quite frankly, I was hesitant to replace it, because the car was running so good as it was. Also had Terry install a BMW single filter for about a week. I didn't want all the noise, so I removed it. Porting, polishing, new Turbos....NO..NO...and...NO!

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

For Hotrod to run a dry shot, which I believe was the accusation, without any visual monitoring or control system would be crazy in my honest opinion and no one in their right mind would risk a 15K block to run 117mph trap speeds... Now I'm no expert on the n54 but my common sense leads me to believe that our direct injection system and weak fuel pump won't be powerful enough for a proper dry shot system anyways... I guess you can run a 25 shot but really... why?

My gosh, if I were running a nitrous shot, I would hope to be doing better than 117mph! As I said, never used, or bought, or rode in a car with nitrous activated in my life! I raise my offer to $5000 to anyone that can prove otherwise.

Originally Posted by badass335

Maybe the car's not a factory freak but just has a special map running? Or maybe it is a factory freak and the special map allows the 10 - 15% performance difference people are talking about.

From what I have seen, few people have broken into the 11's on the 335/ 135's. Only people I see breaking into the 117+ mph range are the tuners and now 2 people. (Hotrod182) and the V3 135 that Shiv was 'special' tuning.

As Terry mentions, on 2 people are running this map hence the only JB3 users with this extreme high trap speed.

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Not many people are running the JB3 map Warren has. Only myself, him, and I let Mr5 try it once.

Either way, Congrats on the time and run man! I'd love to have that run 'under my belt'

Like I said, this map is mild enough to be my daily driver. I would have no problem running it every day on 91 octane, as I have been. Pretty damn amazing. I did have a hotter map to try at the track. Not sure if it is the same one Terry used to trap over 120mph. I made a couple of passes, and I believe it made my car slower. Or maybe it was just blowing off the tires too much in 1st gear. Who knows, I took it out, and put on the ET streets, and immediately ran the 11.99. The 135i may have been running bad, but for the 3 runs on the list, the traps were almost identical. It would be hard to have a malfunction that allows such consistant traps.

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Yep, I tried that map.
To be honest, it was too crazy for myself.
This map should be called the "I need an LSD map"

I like the map. Tonight I took out the map. I wanted to test the car tonight and report back on what the car does totally stock, down to the RFTs. However, it started raining! Damn! Well, I am just grateful it didn't rain at the track.

As far as my car: Yes it was broken in fairly hard. It's hard to resist when people try and race you the first day you have it! LOL. It doesn't burn any more oil than usual for how I drive it. Probably about a quart every 5000 miles. (That is hard driving). I only keep my cars 1-2 years. So tomorrow is the day I turn in the car. I am not afraid of any piston scuffing, etc, etc. I would have no reservations about keeping this car a lot longer. I will miss it very much. I had more fun driving that sedate looking sedan, schooling all kinds of people in every day driving situations, and flying under the radar. My gosh, I wanted to take a VBox run totally stock, damn rain! Seriously, if it dries out at 4am in the morning, you know I will be testing and reporting the results to all of you! The biggest disappointment in getting another new 335i is the newer software/DME version. But I still have the coupe, so that is what I will take to the drag strip next. And with the Vbox, I will know pretty much what the car is capable of, before I even take a run down the strip.

[3er858]

Originally Posted by BlkSapphire

I love this thread. I know I shouldn't but it makes me laugh and I'm enjoying following all the drama. No dog in the hunt myself, just a BMW owner considering buying a piggyback.

Here are my thoughts:

1) This looks bad for Shiv and his business. I emailed him several weeks ago hoping to get some questions answered so I could drop my hard earned cash on a ProCede. No reply yet, it's been over a month. Watching him go back and forth over this nonsense, when he can't bother replying to a potential customer for over a month, suggests that his business isn't run like a business I want to be a customer of.

2) Bench racing sucks. I find it hard to believe that anyone claiming the experience that Shiv does, doesn't know that. That means that Shiv knows he shouldn't be talking smack about someone else's car, but he does it anyway. Unprofessional and unwise.

3) You guys who are saying "Oh I could look under the hood and spot a nitrous set up right away" don't know much about NOS and how it is used in the real world. You know those guys who spend like 9950125 hours polishing and waxing every square millimeter of their cars, going into the very back of the wheel well where no one will ever see, and applying $2500 Swissvax wax there with their finger because a Q-tip is too rough? Well there are guys out there who have taken the art of NOS concealment to that same level. I have seen musclecar engines where you had to get the engine out of the bay on a hoist and take off a number of hoses and other parts to even know there was a NOS setup, because the NOS setup existed entirely inside otherwise-stock-appearing engine parts that had been altered to accomodate it.

The people who do this do it partly for the fun and the pride of being able to conceal it so well, but they also do it because they can boast that their cars will do absurd things that no non-nitrous engine could do, and then collect a lot of money winning the bets that get thrown down. Do they even still publish Car Craft anymore? That's what all those guys used to read, and then laugh about how primitive the published articles were, and then go out and rip up the local street raceway (it was Fletcher Pkwy in San Diego, that was a lot of years ago.) If Shiv was really a tech steward he ought to know about this too, and it sounds like he does, but he's not doing a very good job of communicating it.

4) It's generally not cool to call someone a liar when you're trying to run a business and present a professional face to the community. Even if they're liars. You won't make any friends that way. Insulting people who live with their parents doesn't win any points either.

5) What exactly is a "factory freak?" And what kind of racer would be so keen to get rid of a car that outtrapped similarly-configured cars by 10mph? A racer who knew he'd etched his pistons, rings, bores and valves with nitrous and/or overboost and wanted to get rid of the car before it blew totally. The only truly unsurprising thing about this whole story is that the car's for sale.

6) If I were going to buy a tune tomorrow, and maybe I am, it'd be a JB3. Why? Not because Warren's car traps 120; not because the JB3 is better or faster or cheaper; mainly because Terry answers my emails and understands about being a customer-oriented business.

Now where's that dead horse, I have a baseball bat here and maybe if I beat it enough it'll get up and I can ride it..

WELL SAID

[sd390r]

hotrod why not get a 135 next? and keep the 3 coupe

[Turbo>NA]

Nice times

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by sd390r

hotrod why not get a 135 next? and keep the 3 coupe

I was looking at a white 135i, and priced it. It turns out the residuals are so poor on them, the payments are higher than the 335i. So it just doesn't make sense for me. I was going to pick up another 335i tomorrow. But now my GF wants to wait to save money. The 335i sedan was her car, so I am not going to force her to replace it tomorrow if she doesn't want to. Her work is only a block away from our house. So she would rather walk to work than make a car payment.

[sd390r]

so im guessing the white sedan was a lease and goes back tomorrow? or you sold it

[mmmotornutz]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The 135i may have been running bad, but for the 3 runs on the list, the traps were almost identical. It would be hard to have a malfunction that allows such consistant traps.

Very good point.

[mmmotornutz]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

So she would rather walk to work than make a car payment.

Sounds like a smart cookie. This recession will not get better anytime soon. It would be a good time to save. We are now a cash society.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

Congrats and thanks for sharing your info about the VBOX and your times. BTW did you run the VBOX on those runs? probably dead on like always.

I did use the Vbox on several of the runs. I also noticed something very interesting. Whereas the Famosa track pretty consistantly ran about 1.1mph slower than the Vbox, the Sacramento timeslips are only about .60 mph slower. So Sacramento tends to read higher speeds compared to Famoso if you analyze the Vbox data.

[hotrod182]

Here are some more comparison pics. It's kind of Interesting how all the Famoso timeslips were about 1mph or more slower than the Vbox. And here,the Sacramento time slips arent that far off.(the Vbox on average read about.60mph slower on here, and 1.1 mph slower at Famoso. I would hate to think that the quality of the GPS satellites are different up there in Sacramento.

[MercedesBenz_Forever]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Here are some more comparison pics. It's kind of Interesting how all the Famoso timeslips were about 1mph or more slower than the Vbox. And here,the Sacramento time slips arent that far off.(the Vbox on average read about.60mph slower on here, and 1.1 mph slower at Famoso. I would hate to think that the quality of the GPS satellites are different up there in Sacramento.

That could very well be. The VBox connects to 10 satellites to capture data. However, it will still function with as low as 4 or 5 satellites. This means that you capture 5 readings per second with 5 satellites vs 10 readings per second with 10 satellites (or any amount in between depending on the area you're in). The lower the satellite connections, the greater the discrepancy. My Performance Box read 0.6 to 0.9 faster than Famoso the last couple of times I tried it.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by MercedesBenz_Forever

That could very well be. The VBox connects to 10 satellites to capture data. However, it will still function with as low as 4 or 5 satellites. This means that you capture 5 readings per second with 5 satellites vs 10 readings per second with 10 satellites (or any amount in between depending on the area you're in). The lower the satellite connections, the greater the discrepancy. My Performance Box read 0.6 to 0.9 faster than Famoso the last couple of times I tried it.

There is no way the satellites would generate a systematical error. When it comes to the difference between the GPS and track, the GPS speed is the speed at the end, whereas the trap speed is the average speed in the last 60ft. Surely there must be a slight variance in the tracks when it comes to their trap measurement errors.

[MercedesBenz_Forever]

Originally Posted by Lane

There is no way the satellites would generate a systematical error. When it comes to the difference between the GPS and track, the GPS speed is the speed at the end, whereas the trap speed is the average speed in the last 60ft. Surely there must be a slight variance in the tracks when it comes to their trap measurement errors.

I'm sure there is. But also note that NHRA governs a lot of these specifications and employs certain regulations on how much variation is allowed by each track.
My understanding is that the PerformanceBox averages 10 readings per second to obtain the speed readings. It states in the manual that the data quality will be affected in poor reception areas: tall buildings, trees, heavy fog or even bad overcast, etc..... And if enough satellite signals drop, the box will not even display the speed reading; instead, it displays the "Low Satellite" message.

[i2iSTUDIOS]

any idea what your 0-60 time is? 3.9s maybe?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by MercedesBenz_Forever

That could very well be. The VBox connects to 10 satellites to capture data. However, it will still function with as low as 4 or 5 satellites. This means that you capture 5 readings per second with 5 satellites vs 10 readings per second with 10 satellites (or any amount in between depending on the area you're in). The lower the satellite connections, the greater the discrepancy. My Performance Box read 0.6 to 0.9 faster than Famoso the last couple of times I tried it.

So you also tested at Sacramento Raceway and found your traps to be higher on than Famoso on the Vbox? There is definitely some possibility of error at Sacramento I think. You know the funniest thing is everyone was on their feet clapping when a diesel truck ran around a 10.6 in the qtr mile. Only later to find out that all the smoke it was generating causes the staging light to not see when the truck actually left! I will say it again, and tried to prove it with this visit. I think you will find as much useful consistancy testing with the Vbox than the massive variables between tracks, conditions, etc. So if you want to evaluate how your car is running, there is no better way to test, unless you have a dragstrip in your back yard.

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

any idea what your 0-60 time is? 3.9s maybe?

Easily 3.8 seconds or less if your are running in the 11.9-12.0 second ET range with a trap of around 117mph. I get 3.9 seconds all day long in street trim. (Nittos and 91 octane).

[5soko]

Originally Posted by E90ice

You are already a great bench racer, now maybe you can go to the track and let us know what happened

Spring time.Worth a couple shots

[alq80]

Great to hear such news. Upped my respect for them even though i never met them!