[FDfranklin]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Do i consider that sex? no, does my fiance if I did it to some1 else? Yes. Would I consider that sex if some1 did that to her? Yes

Just like knock, it all depends on who you ask and under what conditions

So knock is merely an opinion?

jfwy, very informative thread.. still hard to filter through the BS...

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by FDfranklin

So knock is merely an opinion?

jfwy, very informative thread.. still hard to filter through the BS...

Knock is an opinion to those that started stalking me yesterday. He is simply to uneducated to understand that knock damages engine and believes the knock sesnor detects preknock, but yet that term does not even exsist...

Also the same dips mike just said arnt knock, terry just said he tunes based off those dips to lower boost, sadly it is clearly not working, well actually it is, cause he already at 12psi on a fully bolted car in 40 degree weather, thats almost stock...

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Knock is an opinion to those that started stalking me yesterday. He is simply to uneducated to understand that knock damages engine and believes the knock sesnor detects preknock, but yet that term does not even exsist...

Also the same dips mike just said arnt knock, terry just said he tunes based off those dips to lower boost, sadly it is clearly not working, well actually it is, cause he already at 12psi on a fully bolted car in 40 degree weather, thats almost stock...

What severity of knock does it actually "damage" the N54? Do you have any data to support this?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

What severity of knock does it actually "damage" the N54? Do you have any data to support this?

Do you? You have questioned everything I have posted, but havn't provide any information to back up anything you claim. As for my data, look the two blown engine a couple month ago. If you ever saw an engine that was damamged and know what knock does to internals, its pretty easy to say waht happened to both of them.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Do you? You have questioned everything I have posted, but havn't provide any information to back up anything you claim. As for my data, look the two blown engine a couple month ago. If you ever saw an engine that was damamged and know what knock does to internals, its pretty easy to say waht happened to both of them.

I don't need to provide data, I am not making statements on how this system does not work.

Edit: actually my data is the THOUSANDS of JB uses that have NO problem what so ever..

[Blaizon]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

What severity of knock does it actually "damage" the N54? Do you have any data to support this?

It's a valid question, imo...

[Focus]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

How can you know how severe each "knock" is at different PSI?

How do you know that the sensors are not picking up the frequency's before and actual damaging "knock" occurs.

I've read through all 7 pages and i personally dont feel as though incity is on Mikes/Jbtune side, but simply saying that cmon, even the stock engine has knock " events " and no one is talking about the severity of each knock event and the actual effect it has on the engine, turbo's, etc..

It's a valid arguement IMO. Show me the blown engines, failed turbo's from Jb's inability to control ign timing ( im a noob to all of this btw ). Yes the procede control it now ( and also bear in mind i'm probably personally picking up a procede ) but in the past most of the problems with people's car comes with USER ERROR from what i see.

Success lies in preparation. If you dont prepare your car to run more HP then stock then IMO that's user error esp when fail-safe's put into these tunes. OCC, FMIC, METH, etc...all things that users should focus on more if they're " worried " about a tune messing up their engine imo.


Show me real life proof of damaged engine's, components, reliability of an engine decreased, components that wore out faster, etc, that happened to a JB user, that didnt mess it up his/herself ( choosing a more agressive map then the mods on the car/ user error ) and that's what i feel can clear up this debate.

Clap, all-in-all, your problem with the JB tune is that it doesnt control Timing Advance/ IGN Control ( One or the other im kidna confused LOL ) and in high-boost applications ( 16-18+ psi ) that could cause disaster for most users?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

I don't need to provide data, I am not making statements on how this system does not work.

Edit: actually my data is the THOUSANDS of JB uses that have NO problem what so ever..

And my data is the blown ones. You want to take your chances and go against the information posted. No1 is stoping you sport. From here on out, you are simply on my ignore list cause you act like a 5 year old that I just want to back hand accross the room.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Focus

I've read through all 7 pages and i personally dont feel as though incity is on Mikes/Jbtune side, but simply saying that cmon, even the stock engine has knock " events " and no one is talking about the severity of each knock event and the actual effect it has on the engine, turbo's, etc..

It's a valid arguement IMO. Show me the blown engines, failed turbo's from Jb's inability to control ign timing ( im a noob to all of this btw ). Yes the procede control it now ( and also bear in mind i'm probably personally picking up a procede ) but in the past most of the problems with people's car comes with USER ERROR from what i see.

Success lies in preparation. If you dont prepare your car to run more HP then stock then IMO that's user error esp when fail-safe's put into these tunes. OCC, FMIC, METH, etc...all things that users should focus on more if they're " worried " about a tune messing up their engine imo.


Show me real life proof of damaged engine's, components, reliability of an engine decreased, components that wore out faster, etc, that happened to a JB user, that didnt mess it up his/herself ( choosing a more agressive map then the mods on the car/ user error ) and that's what i feel can clear up this debate.

Clap, all-in-all, your problem with the JB tune is that it doesnt control Timing Advance/ IGN Control ( One or the other im kidna confused LOL ) and in high-boost applications ( 16-18+ psi ) that could cause disaster for most users?

Yes that is my "problem" and with terry recent autotuning, he aparantly also thinks its a problem. LIke I already stated, the recent log he posted autotuned his fully bolted car to 12psi and its still dropping ignition, all this in 40 degree weather. Why would he focus so hard on the same timing drop outs that some people are here say are useless?

[Sniz]

It is still shocking to me how freaking blind a lot of those community is (basically anyone running a JB tune)

I was at the track last Friday, 2 JB cars there, both on multiple runs blew large white puffs out of the tailpipes........i'm sure that was pre-knock and in no way could damage the engine right? Thats what Merry said so it must be true.

RIGHT?

there was also a COBB car there, Boom. He posted his logs. His car was happy.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Sniz

It is still shocking to me how freaking blind a lot of those community is (basically anyone running a JB tune)

I was at the track last Friday, 2 JB cars there, both on multiple runs blew large white puffs out of the tailpipes........i'm sure that was pre-knock and in now way could damage the engine right? Thats what Merry said so it must be true.

RIGHT?

there was also a COBB car there, Boom. He posted his logs. His car was happy.

Shhh common sense does not apply here.

[FDfranklin]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Knock is an opinion to those that started stalking me yesterday. He is simply to uneducated to understand that knock damages engine and believes the knock sesnor detects preknock, but yet that term does not even exsist...

Also the same dips mike just said arnt knock, terry just said he tunes based off those dips to lower boost, sadly it is clearly not working, well actually it is, cause he already at 12psi on a fully bolted car in 40 degree weather, thats almost stock...

I think more people would be willing to listen to you if you didn't "act" like such an elitist.

Although your motive behind this thread might be to inform people of the dangers of the JB, it seems more like a personal grudge.

I am no expert when it comes to cars AT ALL, it is my hobby not my expertise, therefore this thread is pretty damn confusing to me.

I believe the point is that JB does not prevent knocking while other tunes do, and the stock engine does knock but at safe levels? Therefore upping the boost causes harder/unsafer knocks? Do we have proof that knocking under higher boost causes more damage than a stock knock?

You have to realize that anyone with your knowledge will be able to make a decision on their tune by themselves because they will understand how all these tunes work and chose the best one. Its the people like me that looks at the charts you posted in the OP and gets a headache, dumb this shit down for us please .

[Focus]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Yes that is my "problem" and with terry recent autotuning, he aparantly also thinks its a problem. LIke I already stated, the recent log he posted autotuned his fully bolted car to 12psi and its still dropping ignition, all this in 40 degree weather. Why would he focus so hard on the same timing drop outs that some people are here say are useless?

I dunno, i work in the cell phone industry and while at one point no one cared about how many " G's " their phone had, once Iphone 3g came out and everyone wanted " 3g " all of a sudden everything to be 3g, or 4g, etc..w.e..

Im just curious, are they're any logs of a recent auto-tuned procede car ? I wanna compare them to the graph above because it looks like the timing dropouts on an auto-tuned Jb4 have been minimized compared to before ..

Again maybe i dont know what im talking about cuz im a noob to all of this but learning fast!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by lemanse92

Clap and everyone else, here is another log from another friend of mine. This time PID autotune is on I think??? On a JB4 FBO m/t

That logs is a joke, the car knocked at roughly 5500 rpm at 10 degrees, he shifts and the curve stays the same and as it approaches 5500 (even though eh didnt reve it out) the timing once again approaches 10 degrees....what is it auto tuning again?

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

And my data is the blown ones. You want to take your chances and go against the information posted. No1 is stoping you sport. From here on out, you are simply on my ignore list cause you act like a 5 year old that I just want to back hand accross the room.

2 extreme cases out of thousands, Sounds horribly dangerous.

We all take a risk while making car's go faster, If you are going to push things to the wall, you have to expect things to break, If you are just using them on the lower map's with lower PSI, the OEM knock sensor will do its job.

Originally Posted by FDfranklin

I think more people would be willing to listen to you if you didn't "act" like such an elitist.

Although your motive behind this thread might be to inform people of the dangers of the JB, it seems more like a personal grudge.

I am no expert when it comes to cars AT ALL, it is my hobby not my expertise, therefore this thread is pretty damn confusing to me.

I believe the point is that JB does not prevent knocking while other tunes do, and the stock engine does knock but at safe levels? Therefore upping the boost causes harder/unsafer knocks? Do we have proof that knocking under higher boost causes more damage than a stock knock?

You have to realize that anyone with your knowledge will be able to make a decision on their tune by themselves because they will understand how all these tunes work and chose the best one. Its the people like me that looks at the charts you posted in the OP and gets a headache, dumb this shit down for us please .

He insist there is no motive behind this, he just feels he has to "Inform" the public of what the BMS system does and does not do.

and in his eyes how it is wrong.

Originally Posted by Focus

More knock is always bad, the question i'd have instead is what is an acceptable THRESHOLD of knock. OF course the less the better for longevity of the engine.

Clap, do procede owners not knock at all? or knock less the stock cars? or knock the same as stock cars?

Procrede adjust the timing curve "pro actively" which is what Laloosh thinks is the correct way to do it, which I agree with him on.

I dis-agree with him saying the way the JB does it is Incorrect and un-usable.


Both way's work, some work "better" then others. Some are also "cheaper" then others.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Focus

I dunno, i work in the cell phone industry and while at one point no one cared about how many " G's " their phone had, once Iphone 3g came out and everyone wanted " 3g " all of a sudden everything to be 3g, or 4g, etc..w.e..

Im just curious, are they're any logs of a recent auto-tuned procede car ? I wanna compare them to the graph above because it looks like the timing dropouts on an auto-tuned Jb4 have been minimized compared to before ..

Again maybe i dont know what im talking about cuz im a noob to all of this but learning fast!

If you would read the thread, you would see where I dont want this turning into a tuner war of whats better. This thread is purly to call out mike and his claims. Which oddly enough, he post a graph and ran away.

[Focus]

Originally Posted by FDfranklin

I think more people would be willing to listen to you if you didn't "act" like such an elitist.

Although your motive behind this thread might be to inform people of the dangers of the JB, it seems more like a personal grudge.

I am no expert when it comes to cars AT ALL, it is my hobby not my expertise, therefore this thread is pretty damn confusing to me.

I believe the point is that JB does not prevent knocking while other tunes do, and the stock engine does knock but at safe levels? Therefore upping the boost causes harder/unsafer knocks? Do we have proof that knocking under higher boost causes more damage than a stock knock?

You have to realize that anyone with your knowledge will be able to make a decision on their tune by themselves because they will understand how all these tunes work and chose the best one. Its the people like me that looks at the charts you posted in the OP and gets a headache, dumb this shit down for us please .

More knock is always bad, the question i'd have instead is what is an acceptable THRESHOLD of knock. OF course the less the better for longevity of the engine.

Clap, do procede owners not knock at all? or knock less the stock cars? or knock the same as stock cars?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Focus

More knock is always bad, the question i'd have instead is what is an acceptable THRESHOLD of knock. OF course the less the better for longevity of the engine.

Clap, do procede owners not knock at all? or knock less the stock cars? or knock the same as stock cars?

Start a thread and ask procede owners.

[Focus]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

2 extreme cases out of thousands, Sounds horribly dangerous.

We all take a risk while making car's go faster, If you are going to push things to the wall, you have to expect things to break, If you are just using them on the lower map's with lower PSI, the OEM knock sensor will do its job.

Would you agree that at higher PSI, 15+, relying on the OEM knock sensor wouldnt be safE?

[Kid Eh]

Originally Posted by FDfranklin

I think more people would be willing to listen to you if you didn't "act" like such an elitist.

Although your motive behind this thread might be to inform people of the dangers of the JB, it seems more like a personal grudge.

I am no expert when it comes to cars AT ALL, it is my hobby not my expertise, therefore this thread is pretty damn confusing to me.

I believe the point is that JB does not prevent knocking while other tunes do, and the stock engine does knock but at safe levels? Therefore upping the boost causes harder/unsafer knocks? Do we have proof that knocking under higher boost causes more damage than a stock knock?

You have to realize that anyone with your knowledge will be able to make a decision on their tune by themselves because they will understand how all these tunes work and chose the best one. Its the people like me that looks at the charts you posted in the OP and gets a headache, dumb this shit down for us please .

I couldn't have said it better myself. He really needs to get a life and focus his energy on things more important in life. It's soooo obvious this is purely personal. You don't get out much do you Clap?

[Focus]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Start a thread and ask procede owners.

Ditto

I'm curious.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

2 extreme cases out of thousands, Sounds horribly dangerous.

We all take a risk while making car's go faster, If you are going to push things to the wall, you have to expect things to break, If you are just using them on the lower map's with lower PSI, the OEM knock sensor will do its job.






He insist there is no motive behind this, he just feels he has to "Inform" the public of what the BMS system does and does not do.

and in his eyes how it is wrong.

yes things can break, but why the hell would you tune with something that is OBVIOUSLY more damaging to your car than the alternatives???

explain please.