[themyst]

Originally Posted by Clap135

1. You wont make 400whp at 14-15psi on meth
2. Nothing turns for the worst with cobb and it running over 16psi.

Tune/dci/meth at 17 psi is good for 400 if you're lucky. Not 14-15 psi, even with two degrees of advance which may or may not happen depending if the dme wants to recover timing post shift.

The high midrange boost on stage 2 that shiv subtly referenced is made for a fully catless car, so I dont see his argument. Stage 1 kisses 16 psi at times when the stock FMIC is heatsoaked to hell, but tapers off rapidly.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

1) Running PWM meth at 15psi (with DCI) and 2-3 deg of advance will get you ~400whp at sea level.

2) Running over 16psi in the midrange on pump gas without full bolt ons is a waste of boost, causing unnecessary heat/low timing.

Shiv

1. Just like you hit 411 on pump gas right? Not likely repeatable.
2. Not according to cobbs dyno's. It blows yours out the water down low pump gas for pump gas so i guess its not a waste after all since it makes power.
3. I'm warning you, it's raining and I got the house to myself.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by themyst

Tune/dci/meth at 17 psi is good for 400 if you're lucky. Not 14-15 psi, even with two degrees of advance which may or may not happen depending if the dme wants to recover timing post shift.

The high midrange boost on stage 2 that shiv subtly referenced is made for a fully catless car, so I dont see his argument. Stage 1 kisses 16 psi at times when the stock FMIC is heatsoaked to hell, but tapers off rapidly.

Everybody with commons sense agrees, however the end is near so drastic desperation measures need to be applied.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Clap135

3. I'm warning you, it's raining and I got the house to myself.

That line made my whole friggin day......or week lol

Alan

[themyst]

No the end isn't near by any means. Piggybacks have their market so do flash tunes. The challenge lies within what the prospective buyer believes or not.

[Elie335]

+1 with Shiv....

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by Clap135

3. I'm warning you, it's raining and I got the house to myself.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

1. Just like you hit 411 on pump gas right? Not likely repeatable.
2. Not according to cobbs dyno's. It blows yours out the water down low pump gas for pump gas so i guess its not a waste after all since it makes power.
3. I'm warning you, it's raining and I got the house to myself.

Why argue about things you can't prove/disprove at this time? Go to a dyno to make your point. I'll do the same next time I have a Procede/METH/DCI car handy. But I assure you, 400whp with 17 deg of advance/15psi at 6000rpm can quite easily make 400whp, give or take 5whp.

Surely dynos work in the rain, right?

Shiv

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Why argue about things you can't prove/disprove at this time? Go to a dyno to make your point. I'll do the same next time I have a Procede/METH/DCI car handy. But I assure you, 400whp with 17 deg of advance/15psi at 6000rpm can quite easily make 400whp, give or take 5whp.

Surely dynos work in the rain, right?

Shiv

Please log it, People are hitting 420-430 fully bolted on race gas running 18psi on your system, now a dci and 15psi is gonna hit 400? For how long? 1 glory dyno run and then take a shit post shift? Cmon shiv you should know better than that.

Dynos do work in the rain, however so does common sense.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Everybody with commons sense agrees, however the end is near so drastic desperation measures need to be applied.

There won't be an end... just a little down cycle for piggies... but once Cobb 2 gets to the track, piggies will take off again. Just a little stg 2 hype. Hell I hope most people switch to a flash... SO I CAN BEAT THEM. You wanna race?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

There won't be an end... just a little down cycle for piggies... but once Cobb 2 gets to the track, piggies will take off again. Just a little stg 2 hype. Hell I hope most people switch to a flash... SO I CAN BEAT THEM. You wanna race?

Trust me you have no chance.
There has already been a fbo 135i procede vs fbo 135 cobb stage 2 with a passenger race. Dead even with the dead weight.

Piggys have the advantage when it comes to race gas and meth, and that is something that will change as well. Any procede car around me want to go pump for pump I am always open for a friendly challenge.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Trust me you have no chance.
There has already been a fbo 135i procede vs fbo 135 cobb stage 2 with a passenger race. Dead even with the dead weight.

Piggys have the advantage when it comes to race gas and meth, and that is something that will change as well. Any procede car around me want to go pump for pump I am always open for a friendly challenge.

If I drive his car its 80lbs less too LOL

But I cant shift as fast. Mofo puts that 4th gear in the back seat.

[tofu-]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Piggys have the advantage when it comes to race gas and meth, and that is something that will change as well. Any procede car around me want to go pump for pump I am always open for a friendly challenge.

i am excited to see what kind of meth implementation cobb will come up with. after selling a jb4 or procede, the upgrade costs may be quite worth it

are you aware if they plan on messing with the tcu?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

If I drive his car its 80lbs less too LOL

I wasnt in the race lol. It was just shared by members of here through pms. Ask ben about the details.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Please log it, People are hitting 420-430 fully bolted on race gas running 18psi on your system, now a dci and 15psi is gonna hit 400? For how long? 1 glory dyno run and then take a shit post shift? Cmon shiv you should know better than that.

Dynos do work in the rain, however so does common sense.

Typical concept of diminishing returns when running turbos that are operate towards the upper end of their airflow range. And a FBO car that runs 18psi still falls off to 15-16psi by redline. Most of the extra 20-30whp comes from backpressure reduction and better cylinder filling afforded by the exhaust mods.

Doesn't change the fact that you can run less boost, with less mods and still make damn good power by just optimizing combustion efficiency (more ignition advance) if octane is sufficient. Not to mention the cooling effect of meth which makes a 15psi car consume the same air volume as non-meth car running 16psi or more.

This is all pretty easy stuff to show on a dyno. More productive than arguing on a forum with people who haven't done such testing.

Shiv

[themyst]

Shiv, it seems your purported ignition advance only works if the dme hits max advance. The dyno won't see this falloff in power since it only happens post-shift. What are u going to do when the dme flatlined ignition post shift? Down 30 whp thus making 370 whp on meth real-world?

[Dmacc]

This is all making my day at work much more exciting!

[Bmwguy11]

Originally Posted by Clap135

the one thing you like about the piggy, cobb is 100 times better. You plug it in and hit a button, no screws, no taking parts off, no ecu box digging, no broken tabs/clips, no bullshit.

Yea I'm researching the cobb now, and I just read that myself. DEFINITELY appearling. Now I'm just trying to weed through all these threads to determine which I'd rather have for my situation, procede or cobb.

[dzenno]

So does the jb4 REALLY control the timing the same as the procede? Lol

Thread fail of the century!!!! Lol

I guess the answer is just get Cobb and don't worry about it LOL

[thebigragu99]

How about this ,let's take 2 Fbo cars one with a j b4 map 2 and the other with a Cobb stage 2..Both should be dynoed on a dynojet ,and logs to go along with it ..fair enough ??? Let's do it!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by thebigragu99

How about this ,let's take 2 Fbo cars one with a j b4 map 2 and the other with a Cobb stage 2..Both should be dynoed on a dynojet ,and logs to go along with it ..fair enough ??? Let's do it!

Its already documented on cobbs dynobase site. No piggy on pump gas has yet to beat any cobb stage tune.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Typical concept of diminishing returns when running turbos that are operate towards the upper end of their airflow range. And a FBO car that runs 18psi still falls off to 15-16psi by redline. Most of the extra 20-30whp comes from backpressure reduction and better cylinder filling afforded by the exhaust mods.

Doesn't change the fact that you can run less boost, with less mods and still make damn good power by just optimizing combustion efficiency (more ignition advance) if octane is sufficient. Not to mention the cooling effect of meth which makes a 15psi car consume the same air volume as non-meth car running 16psi or more.

This is all pretty easy stuff to show on a dyno. More productive than arguing on a forum with people who haven't done such testing.

Shiv

You forgot to mention the cats that will fail. Ask me how I know. Or ask jp what his car is starting to smell like.

meth tune is a good cheap combo, however its not the way to go long term or if you want something headace free. Btw maybe you forgot but I was running that combo for around 15-20k.