Vessel: Patriot

Lassaxi · 05-20-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreCowbell

I think your CA is blowing smoke up your ass. Guys who were on the courage got their cars last week after coming into the NJ VPC. It took them 3-4 days an they all lived in DC or Maryland...

I think you're right about that- I know someone in the Hudson Valley, NY area who got their car 2 weeks ago, and it spend 3 days at the NJ VPC, which is about average.

msimon18 · 05-20-2007, 08:28 AM

So what do they do if REAL damage occurs during shipping ???? Do they tell you about it and let you DECIDE if you want the car or do they just repair dents, scratches etc. without ever telling you about it and pass it off as VIRGIN ?? Can't get a CARFAX report for shipping damage can you !!

GM does NOT tell you, they try to COVER IT UP. I know first hand as they ended up doing significant body work on a car for me back in 1986 on a Delta 88 and never told me about it. Six months later it started to rust where they repaired it. I finally found out about it, accidently, by reading some of their paperwork that I guess I was not supposed to see. In the end I got a NEW car about six months later after a load of aggravation and 4 separate repairs that were all done quite shoddily. I get stressed out thinking about all the hassle back then.

So what does BMW do -- anyone know ??

milehigh5000 · 05-20-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

So what do they do if REAL damage occurs during shipping ???? Do they tell you about it and let you DECIDE if you want the car or do they just repair dents, scratches etc. without ever telling you about it and pass it off as VIRGIN ?? Can't get a CARFAX report for shipping damage can you !!

GM does NOT tell you, they try to COVER IT UP. I know first hand as they ended up doing significant body work on a car for me back in 1986 on a Delta 88 and never told me about it. Six months later it started to rust where they repaired it. I finally found out about it, accidently, by reading some of their paperwork that I guess I was not supposed to see. In the end I got a NEW car about six months later after a load of aggravation and 4 separate repairs that were all done quite shoddily. I get stressed out thinking about all the hassle back then.

So what does BMW do -- anyone know ??

honestly i have no idea but ive never heard any rumors or stories about this from bmw

choatie88 · 05-20-2007, 12:01 PM

You can get a damage report from your CA that lists what was fixed at the VPC. Also, if the damage is more than 3% of the value of the vehicle, they cannot sell it as new by federal law.

msimon18 · 05-20-2007, 02:58 PM

Thx for the info - where did you get it from ??

I am guessing that the law you are referring to is relatively new based on the issue I had back in 1986. There the damage was about 20% but they still sold it as new !!

Based on a $60,000 list 3% would be $1800. That's a lot of repair work at their cost.

dougman · 05-20-2007, 04:01 PM

Back to the Patriot...

Is it just me, or does it seem like at this rate it should get to the coast before 5/26??

http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shi...html?call=WQVY

ps one of the call-in positions seems to be erroneous but the most recent one is back on track.

msimon18 · 05-20-2007, 08:07 PM

I did a short calculation a few days ago and at about 15 knots I bet it does not hit the port until 5/26. Early would be great since there is a holiday weekend coming up but my guess is 5/26 is the date it will dock.

milehigh5000 · 05-20-2007, 11:15 PM

i cant waitttt for the car to come..im starting to wish i got it in montego blue though..i saw that color today on a 328xi and it looked so nice..he had tint too..but ill be happy with black sapphire too i guess

MoreCowbell · 05-20-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehigh5000

i cant waitttt for the car to come..im starting to wish i got it in montego blue though..i saw that color today on a 328xi and it looked so nice..he had tint too..but ill be happy with black sapphire too i guess

Dude...I know where you are comng from and it's totally normal to second guess yourself. A few times over the last few weeks I have wondered if I should have gone for the Space Gray...

Then i just go to Jet Black Picture thread and I know why I made the choice I made.

dougman · 05-21-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

I did a short calculation a few days ago and at about 15 knots I bet it does not hit the port until 5/26. Early would be great since there is a holiday weekend coming up but my guess is 5/26 is the date it will dock.

Buzz kill!

You're probably right, I can't imagine they'd burn the fuel to arrive early, given they probably can't depart NY any earlier than scheduled, but it sure looks like they're near the halfway mark on the map--after only 3 days underway.

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 07:27 AM

Color choice is like any other decision. Don't turn it into a "multiple choice test". You know how they work...... first decision is the most likely correct choice. Odds go way out of your favor is you change to a different choice.

Color is really a personal thing. I liked several of them and was really ready to order the green and saddle combo but my wife didn't like it. Not a real issue as I didn't like the color she chose for her car but, hey, it was her car. In the end I went for the Monaco Blue and Cream Beige cause I think the combo is so rich looking. Just hope I can keep the interior clean as with the cabrio it gets pretty filthy as can be seen from my 330 cic. Takes a lot to care for it, but what the heck, I'm retired !!!

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 07:42 AM

Dougman,

With the fuel cost, depreciation cost, other transportation, port fees etc I am really surprised that it costs no more to get a car from Munich to New York than from Detroit to New York. I know the ship handles a lot more vehicles but with all the added costs etc. it sure seems that the transportation cost of the car is a real bargain.

Seems to me I remember that a 93K ton ship burns about 6,000 gallons of diesel a day at 20 knots. If that is true Patriot burns about 4,000 gallons a day. At $2.00 (bulk rate) per gallon that comes to about $8,000 a day for fuel alone. Other costs (with depreciation and insurance) must at least double this to $16,000 a day. A thirteen day trip from Bremerhaven to New York probably costs over $200,000. Assuming 600 vehicles on board comes out to ~$333.00 for just the boat ride !!

I am guessing that they have selected the most economical RPM to run the ship at to minimize fuel consumption as that is probably their biggest single cost. So ..... you are right, it is very unlikely that they will speed up to get here early... unless they try to outrun a storm.

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 07:53 AM

Patriot as of ~noon GMT today:

dougman · 05-21-2007, 09:24 AM

Does look like she's averaging more like 22 knots, tho...

milehigh5000 · 05-21-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

Dougman,

With the fuel cost, depreciation cost, other transportation, port fees etc I am really surprised that it costs no more to get a car from Munich to New York than from Detroit to New York. I know the ship handles a lot more vehicles but with all the added costs etc. it sure seems that the transportation cost of the car is a real bargain.

Seems to me I remember that a 93K ton ship burns about 6,000 gallons of diesel a day at 20 knots. If that is true Patriot burns about 4,000 gallons a day. At $2.00 (bulk rate) per gallon that comes to about $8,000 a day for fuel alone. Other costs (with depreciation and insurance) must at least double this to $16,000 a day. A thirteen day trip from Bremerhaven to New York probably costs over $200,000. Assuming 600 vehicles on board comes out to ~$333.00 for just the boat ride !!

I am guessing that they have selected the most economical RPM to run the ship at to minimize fuel consumption as that is probably their biggest single cost. So ..... you are right, it is very unlikely that they will speed up to get here early... unless they try to outrun a storm.

wow man youre really good with those calculations of yours

lol i gotta think of a few calculations you could help me out with haha

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 11:28 AM

Must be the old engineer in me. Just gotta figure it all out !!

milehigh5000 · 05-21-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

Must be the old engineer in me. Just gotta figure it all out !!

lol my brothers goin to the school of engineering at rutgers and he does the same thing as you

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 07:18 PM

Rutgers is my old stompin ground. I retired as an R&D Director for J&J and spent many days in the "Ivory Tower" down there rubbing elbows with the elite.

Rutgers is a gr8 school - good luck to him !!

dougman · 05-21-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

Rutgers is my old stompin ground. I retired as an R&D Director for J&J and spent many days in the "Ivory Tower" down there rubbing elbows with the elite.

Rutgers is a gr8 school - good luck to him !!

Interesting--spent a few years working for J&J myself. Didn't spend much time in NJ except for a couple of meetings up high with Ralph Larsen when I was working on a "secret project".

My sister went to Rutgers. I'm an engineer, too.

What division were you R&D Director for?

milehigh5000 · 05-21-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msimon18

Rutgers is my old stompin ground. I retired as an R&D Director for J&J and spent many days in the "Ivory Tower" down there rubbing elbows with the elite.

Rutgers is a gr8 school - good luck to him !!

yeahh it is a good school hes a freshmen now just gettin started hope he does well

but yeah i'm right near J&J i think too

milehigh5000 · 05-21-2007, 08:52 PM

wooooo it looks like its either at or nearing the middle of the voyage!!

msimon18 · 05-21-2007, 09:41 PM

We are making progress. Sure would be nice to have the car for the holiday weekend but not a chance. Hopefully by the 3rd or 4th of June.

05-20-2007, 08:28 AM	#134
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	So what do they do if REAL damage occurs during shipping ???? Do they tell you about it and let you DECIDE if you want the car or do they just repair dents, scratches etc. without ever telling you about it and pass it off as VIRGIN ?? Can't get a CARFAX report for shipping damage can you !! GM does NOT tell you, they try to COVER IT UP. I know first hand as they ended up doing significant body work on a car for me back in 1986 on a Delta 88 and never told me about it. Six months later it started to rust where they repaired it. I finally found out about it, accidently, by reading some of their paperwork that I guess I was not supposed to see. In the end I got a NEW car about six months later after a load of aggravation and 4 separate repairs that were all done quite shoddily. I get stressed out thinking about all the hassle back then. So what does BMW do -- anyone know ?? __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2007, 12:01 PM	#136
choatie88 Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 205 Posts Drives: iX, Volvo XC90, McLaren 12C Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (0)	You can get a damage report from your CA that lists what was fixed at the VPC. Also, if the damage is more than 3% of the value of the vehicle, they cannot sell it as new by federal law. __________________ 335i E93 Monaco/Beige ZPP ZSP ZCW 322 507 6FL ZPD
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2007, 02:58 PM	#137
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Thx for the info - where did you get it from ?? I am guessing that the law you are referring to is relatively new based on the issue I had back in 1986. There the damage was about 20% but they still sold it as new !! Based on a $60,000 list 3% would be $1800. That's a lot of repair work at their cost. __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2007, 04:01 PM	#138
dougman Second Lieutenant 27 Rep 228 Posts Drives: '07 E92 328 --> 2010 E92 M3! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Back to the Patriot... Is it just me, or does it seem like at this rate it should get to the coast before 5/26?? http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shi...html?call=WQVY ps one of the call-in positions seems to be erroneous but the most recent one is back on track.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2007, 08:07 PM	#139
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	I did a short calculation a few days ago and at about 15 knots I bet it does not hit the port until 5/26. Early would be great since there is a holiday weekend coming up but my guess is 5/26 is the date it will dock. __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-20-2007, 11:15 PM	#140
milehigh5000 Captain 20 Rep 757 Posts Drives: BS 328i coupe Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: eb, nj iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW 328i [0.00] 2000 Cadillac Cater ... [0.00]	i cant waitttt for the car to come..im starting to wish i got it in montego blue though..i saw that color today on a 328xi and it looked so nice..he had tint too..but ill be happy with black sapphire too i guess __________________ 2007 e92 328i - BS Metallic/Black Leather \| Auto \| Premium Package \| Logic 7 \| Comfort Access \| Navi + i-drive \|\| Mods (so far): GP Thunders \| Rear Fog Switch
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 07:27 AM	#143
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Color choice is like any other decision. Don't turn it into a "multiple choice test". You know how they work...... first decision is the most likely correct choice. Odds go way out of your favor is you change to a different choice. Color is really a personal thing. I liked several of them and was really ready to order the green and saddle combo but my wife didn't like it. Not a real issue as I didn't like the color she chose for her car but, hey, it was her car. In the end I went for the Monaco Blue and Cream Beige cause I think the combo is so rich looking. Just hope I can keep the interior clean as with the cabrio it gets pretty filthy as can be seen from my 330 cic. Takes a lot to care for it, but what the heck, I'm retired !!! __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 07:42 AM	#144
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Dougman, With the fuel cost, depreciation cost, other transportation, port fees etc I am really surprised that it costs no more to get a car from Munich to New York than from Detroit to New York. I know the ship handles a lot more vehicles but with all the added costs etc. it sure seems that the transportation cost of the car is a real bargain. Seems to me I remember that a 93K ton ship burns about 6,000 gallons of diesel a day at 20 knots. If that is true Patriot burns about 4,000 gallons a day. At $2.00 (bulk rate) per gallon that comes to about $8,000 a day for fuel alone. Other costs (with depreciation and insurance) must at least double this to $16,000 a day. A thirteen day trip from Bremerhaven to New York probably costs over $200,000. Assuming 600 vehicles on board comes out to ~$333.00 for just the boat ride !! I am guessing that they have selected the most economical RPM to run the ship at to minimize fuel consumption as that is probably their biggest single cost. So ..... you are right, it is very unlikely that they will speed up to get here early... unless they try to outrun a storm. __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 07:53 AM	#145
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Patriot as of ~noon GMT today: Attached Images __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 09:24 AM	#146
dougman Second Lieutenant 27 Rep 228 Posts Drives: '07 E92 328 --> 2010 E92 M3! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Does look like she's averaging more like 22 knots, tho...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 11:28 AM	#148
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Must be the old engineer in me. Just gotta figure it all out !! __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 07:18 PM	#150
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	Rutgers is my old stompin ground. I retired as an R&D Director for J&J and spent many days in the "Ivory Tower" down there rubbing elbows with the elite. Rutgers is a gr8 school - good luck to him !! __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 08:52 PM	#153
milehigh5000 Captain 20 Rep 757 Posts Drives: BS 328i coupe Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: eb, nj iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW 328i [0.00] 2000 Cadillac Cater ... [0.00]	wooooo it looks like its either at or nearing the middle of the voyage!! Attached Images __________________ 2007 e92 328i - BS Metallic/Black Leather \| Auto \| Premium Package \| Logic 7 \| Comfort Access \| Navi + i-drive \|\| Mods (so far): GP Thunders \| Rear Fog Switch
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-21-2007, 09:41 PM	#154
msimon18 Retired 20 Rep 868 Posts Drives: Z4 s30i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Villages, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Isetta 300 [0.00] 2004 1/5 Scale M3 GTR [10.00]	We are making progress. Sure would be nice to have the car for the holiday weekend but not a chance. Hopefully by the 3rd or 4th of June. __________________ M3 GTR - 1/5 scale - 4.2 HP w/ Collari hydraulic brakes - would you believe ~80 MPH on straightaway !!
	Appreciate 0 Quote