[danielescobarg]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

My fuelling is fine. I installed the lpfp upgrade to prepare for stage2.

Afrs were good before lpfp and also after lpfp upgrade. I can post a recent log tomorrow.

I am not sure what you are referring to in regards to F series? The new ewg cars might be different from the pneumatic ones.

What I mean is that every N55, specially the F-Series have shown a tendency to go lean on the top-end with hight boost. Being barely below 13 AFR is not ideal for hight boost set-up. With Pure Stg1 one top end can hold 16-17 PSI max, then add a bigger turbo capable of holding 20 PSI til redline..... and I dont think the stock fueling can keep up. Maybe using a huge meth injector.

I would love for a fueling alternative that allows straight race fuel or E85 (not meth injection) to keep AFR in the low 12s under hight boost.

would love to see a graph comparing your AFRs with your LPFP upgrade vs the oem one under same boost levels.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by danielescobarg

What I mean is that every N55, specially the F-Series have shown a tendency to go lean on the top-end with hight boost. Being barely below 13 AFR is not ideal for hight boost set-up. With Pure Stg1 one top end can hold 16-17 PSI max, then add a bigger turbo capable of holding 20 PSI til redline..... and I dont think the stock fueling can keep up. Maybe using a huge meth injector.

I would love for a fueling alternative that allows straight race fuel or E85 (not meth injection) to keep AFR in the low 12s under hight boost.

would love to see a graph comparing your AFRs with your LPFP upgrade vs the oem one under same boost levels.

Exactly. I have stopped pushing my pure turbo until a fueling solution exists. I run out of fuel at high rpm under high boost every time. Meth would help me but I have a hatchback so I am not going to do that.

The lpfp usually isn't the issue, it's the hpfp that is. The Vargas shotgun solution looks interesting, but as typical with him it is strictly vaporware at this point.

[PeterPure]

Well here are some of my findings with the car and it's current mods. I have been running a single CM10 nozzle with my meth kit from when I had the stock turbo. So well before I had the pure turbo on the car. I did not experiment with ethanol mix before the pure turbo.

Now for some time I am running a dual nozzle CM5/CM7 setup for better vaporisation. Flow will be slightly more than the single CM10 but not too much. My car has a 52L tank. My daily mix has been 17L E100 mixed with 35L 93 RON fuel. That makes for a E33 mix.

With both the CM10 and CM5/7 setup and E33 I can max out the pure turbo stage1 with near perfect timings on my car with decent AFR's.

Around half september I started experimenting with upping the Ethanol content to E40-E45. This caused the intermittent issues with the car sputtering only in the following occasion:
- 5th gear or higher, cruise at 4k rpm, go WOT and around 5k rpm or just before the car sometimes sputters a bit. This does not happen when I start at 3k rpm. The car never sputtered in any other occasions and this only happens from time to time.

Lowering the E content back to E33-35 solved it and it didnt occur again. That was when I ordered to LPFP upgrade. Now after install I face the same issue if I increase the E content to E40-45. So clearly the above is not a LPFP issue. The issue is on HPFP side.

HPFP pumps can supply more fuel when RPM goes up. When I start lower in the RPM range it has time to build up enough pressure and pulls through without issues. However I guess at certain gear/rpm/load levels it seems to struggle a bit every now and then. Again running E33-35 mix does not cause any such issue. I believe as of 2012 BMW switched from the N54 HPFP to a new Bosch HDP5 single piston unit. So the cars with the older pump might have different results.

However this is also with just a JB4 for tuning. Maybe a real flash tune can work around the issue. Terry said he could work with me with the JB4 only to lean it out a bit. However he preferred I up the fuel by going CM10/CM7 meth nozzle setup. However since timings are perfect now with the current setup and E33-35 mix I didn't test any further. I don't need more Ethanol since without real flash tune it wont help with anything.

As for the future and stage2 turbo setups I think we are still perfectly in good shape to take advantage of the extra whp that a stage2 unit brings. The HPFP will flow more fuel at higher RPM range. Currently with stage1 upgrade our power drops off after 6k. Torque drops steadily after 5k rpm. So if a stage2 will allow more torque from 5k to 7k the HPFP is able to flow more since RPM is higher as well. Should stock fuelling still not suffice we can always:
- Lower E content to E15/20 to get better octane over just 93
- Run CM10/CM7 nozzle
- Add port injection
- Lean the fuelling out a bit in places where the HPFP struggles via ECU flash
- Next year BMW will come with a new HPFP (maybe for the M2?) and it might be compatible with our cars

I guess we will find out in the near future. I will look for some before and after LPFP logs and post them up soon.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Our shotgun kits fit the N55's and are just about done, this will eliminate all HPFP issues. We are running E60 with 2 small meth nozzles, we matched the current N55 record in WHP and beat the WTQ by 30+WTQ, the car runs perfect AFR's, and HPFP is also showing ok. Fuel issues on the N55 will be over very soon, once the pumps are done.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by danielescobarg

What I mean is that every N55, specially the F-Series have shown a tendency to go lean on the top-end with hight boost. Being barely below 13 AFR is not ideal for hight boost set-up. With Pure Stg1 one top end can hold 16-17 PSI max, then add a bigger turbo capable of holding 20 PSI til redline..... and I dont think the stock fueling can keep up. Maybe using a huge meth injector.

I would love for a fueling alternative that allows straight race fuel or E85 (not meth injection) to keep AFR in the low 12s under hight boost.

would love to see a graph comparing your AFRs with your LPFP upgrade vs the oem one under same boost levels.

Here are some logs running more or less same boost and same fuel mix. However I was having some meth flow issues in the before logs. I got that fixed in the meantime.
Before LPFP install:
http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/bef-1.csv


http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/bef-2.csv


http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/bef-3.csv


After LPFP install:
http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/aft-1.csv



http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/aft-2.csv


http://users.telenet.be/darkhold/aft-3.csv

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Our shotgun kits fit the N55's and are just about done, this will eliminate all HPFP issues. We are running E60 with 2 small meth nozzles, we matched the current N55 record in WHP and beat the WTQ by 30+WTQ, the car runs perfect AFR's, and HPFP is also showing ok. Fuel issues on the N55 will be over very soon, once the pumps are done.

Hmm your turbos are not exactly known to be reliable. I don't think I want a HPFP fuelling solution from you in my car unless its proven to work reliable.

[1cleann55]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Hmm your turbos are not exactly known to be reliable. I don't think I want a HPFP fuelling solution from you in my car unless its proven to work reliable.

Where has his turbos failed? I remember seeing some units having issues but Tony has never hesitated to replace any mistakes. I've seen RB customers having complaints of those turbos blowing out too as well.

[Knobi]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Hmm your turbos are not exactly known to be reliable. I don't think I want a HPFP fuelling solution from you in my car unless its proven to work reliable.

GOOD. More for us then

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Our shotgun kits fit the N55's and are just about done, this will eliminate all HPFP issues. We are running E60 with 2 small meth nozzles, we matched the current N55 record in WHP and beat the WTQ by 30+WTQ, the car runs perfect AFR's, and HPFP is also showing ok. Fuel issues on the N55 will be over very soon, once the pumps are done.

Tony do you think running straight e85 with a Stage 2 turbo and single barrel shotgun pump is optimistic?
Not shooting for any records just want reliable horsepower with e85.

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Hmm your turbos are not exactly known to be reliable. I don't think I want a HPFP fuelling solution from you in my car unless its proven to work reliable.

Mine has been fine for six months.
Only complaints I've heard are from a very vocal small group of germans.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by Knobi

GOOD. More for us then

Even better... You test it and let us know the findings

[danielescobarg]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Well here are some of my findings with the car and it's current mods. I have been running a single CM10 nozzle with my meth kit from when I had the stock turbo. So well before I had the pure turbo on the car. I did not experiment with ethanol mix before the pure turbo.

Now for some time I am running a dual nozzle CM5/CM7 setup for better vaporisation. Flow will be slightly more than the single CM10 but not too much. My car has a 52L tank. My daily mix has been 17L E100 mixed with 35L 93 RON fuel. That makes for a E33 mix.

With both the CM10 and CM5/7 setup and E33 I can max out the pure turbo stage1 with near perfect timings on my car with decent AFR's.

Around half september I started experimenting with upping the Ethanol content to E40-E45. This caused the intermittent issues with the car sputtering only in the following occasion:
- 5th gear or higher, cruise at 4k rpm, go WOT and around 5k rpm or just before the car sometimes sputters a bit. This does not happen when I start at 3k rpm. The car never sputtered in any other occasions and this only happens from time to time.

Lowering the E content back to E33-35 solved it and it didnt occur again. That was when I ordered to LPFP upgrade. Now after install I face the same issue if I increase the E content to E40-45. So clearly the above is not a LPFP issue. The issue is on HPFP side.

HPFP pumps can supply more fuel when RPM goes up. When I start lower in the RPM range it has time to build up enough pressure and pulls through without issues. However I guess at certain gear/rpm/load levels it seems to struggle a bit every now and then. Again running E33-35 mix does not cause any such issue. I believe as of 2012 BMW switched from the N54 HPFP to a new Bosch HDP5 single piston unit. So the cars with the older pump might have different results.

However this is also with just a JB4 for tuning. Maybe a real flash tune can work around the issue. Terry said he could work with me with the JB4 only to lean it out a bit. However he preferred I up the fuel by going CM10/CM7 meth nozzle setup. However since timings are perfect now with the current setup and E33-35 mix I didn't test any further. I don't need more Ethanol since without real flash tune it wont help with anything.

As for the future and stage2 turbo setups I think we are still perfectly in good shape to take advantage of the extra whp that a stage2 unit brings. The HPFP will flow more fuel at higher RPM range. Currently with stage1 upgrade our power drops off after 6k. Torque drops steadily after 5k rpm. So if a stage2 will allow more torque from 5k to 7k the HPFP is able to flow more since RPM is higher as well. Should stock fuelling still not suffice we can always:
- Lower E content to E15/20 to get better octane over just 93
- Run CM10/CM7 nozzle
- Add port injection
- Lean the fuelling out a bit in places where the HPFP struggles via ECU flash
- Next year BMW will come with a new HPFP (maybe for the M2?) and it might be compatible with our cars

I guess we will find out in the near future. I will look for some before and after LPFP logs and post them up soon.

Check this out for a head scratcher...

As you may remember, all of my logs have been made at 5000ft. Yesterday we came down to sea level for some drag competition that is happening this Sunday. I wanted to see how the set-up at 5000ft (boost and AFR) compare to sea level. I was expecting even leaner AFR due to the higher atmospheric pressure.... but the opposite happened.

Look at this log.



at 6800 RPMS the turbo is at 18 PSI and AFR is 11.5. This is same gas, same mods, etc. See how the AFT curve is below 13 all the way from 5000 to redline.

The car keep hitting the boost failsafe, so requested boost was lowered a bit. what was most impressive was that the turbo is far from being maxed out. I managed to hit the failsafe at 6000 RPMS! = 21 PSI at 6000 RPMS.

One thing though, is that boost is much twitchier.. less smooth that before.

I am now extremely confused regarding fuelling... How can it be so much better now?

for comparison:

same mods, same fuel:

@5000 FT



0 FT



Also, check out the PWM on this 7000 RPMS run. Well below maxed.

[PeterPure]

Did you dyno the car? She looks to be running well. Stock fmic?
Share tomorrows racing results please. If the logs are anything to go by you are in for something good!

[PeterPure]

Maybe 1 tip: its not because boost holds till 7k rpm that there is more power up top. These turbos seem to max hp at 5800/6000 rpm. So shifting at 7k might not give best performance.

[Pure Turbos]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

Our shotgun kits fit the N55's and are just about done, this will eliminate all HPFP issues. We are running E60 with 2 small meth nozzles, we matched the current N55 record in WHP and beat the WTQ by 30+WTQ, the car runs perfect AFR's, and HPFP is also showing ok. Fuel issues on the N55 will be over very soon, once the pumps are done.

So when we make informative posts in threads about your product, you make a huge hissy fit, contact the moderators, and have our posts deleted. Though you have no problem coming into this thread and pushing your own product? Man you're a joke. Grow up. This is just ridiculous. You sure can shovel it out, but you can't take it. I guess we have free reign to post in Vargas threads now? Make a decision and stick to it. We are fine with either way.

[danielescobarg]

Yeah, so this happened.....





we did a first run on drag radials tires (without heating them) and full weight.... 12.5 @ 114.5 MPH and 60 ft of 2.1

second run trough the water box tires were heated and as soon as they approached the VHT, they hooked and boom there goes the driveshaft joint....

Previous best time was 12.8 @ 105, so a solid 10 mph trap increase.

apparently the drive line cant handle the torque..... not sure if the joint can be upgrade. Car was running very well despite the 110f weather.

[rhm135]

Originally Posted by Pure Turbos

So when we make informative posts in threads about your product, you make a huge hissy fit, contact the moderators, and have our posts deleted. Though you have no problem coming into this thread and pushing your own product? Man you're a joke. Grow up. This is just ridiculous. You sure can shovel it out, but you can't take it. I guess we have free reign to post in Vargas threads now? Make a decision and stick to it. We are fine with either way.

+1

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

+10, let me know when you start making and selling HPFP upgrades. I will make sure at that point to not try to help people who may be running a Pure turbo with fueling issues. I would of course let you suggest your own HPFP offering to them. The difference is your posts in our threads are always you trying to push the same product we are selling in the thread.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by danielescobarg

Yeah, so this happened.....





we did a first run on drag radials tires (without heating them) and full weight.... 12.5 @ 114.5 MPH and 60 ft of 2.1

second run trough the water box tires were heated and as soon as they approached the VHT, they hooked and boom there goes the driveshaft joint....

Previous best time was 12.8 @ 105, so a solid 10 mph trap increase.

apparently the drive line cant handle the torque..... not sure if the joint can be upgrade. Car was running very well despite the 110f weather.

Man that sucks. I think you are the first with such issue

[Pure Turbos]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

+10, let me know when you start making and selling HPFP upgrades. I will make sure at that point to not try to help people who may be running a Pure turbo with fueling issues. I would of course let you suggest your own HPFP offering to them. The difference is your posts in our threads are always you trying to push the same product we are selling, we are selling in the thread.

This has nothing to do with fueling, what we offer, what you offer, it's irrelevant. You make a big stink and contact the moderators everytime we post in a vargas thread. So... Just make it clear for the record:

Are we posting in each others threads or not?

And don't be disrespectful, condescending, or call names like you do in our e-mails. Just have integrity, and let us know how you'd like it. We are fine with either way.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by Pure Turbos

So when we make informative posts in threads about your product, you make a huge hissy fit, contact the moderators, and have our posts deleted. Though you have no problem coming into this thread and pushing your own product? Man you're a joke. Grow up. This is just ridiculous. You sure can shovel it out, but you can't take it. I guess we have free reign to post in Vargas threads now? Make a decision and stick to it. We are fine with either way.

This is not unusual behavior for VTT.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by Pure Turbos

This has nothing to do with fueling, what we offer, what you offer, it's irrelevant. You make a big stink and contact the moderators everytime we post in a vargas thread. So... Just make it clear for the record:

Are we posting in each others threads or not?

And don't be disrespectful, condescending, or call names like you do in our e-mails. Just have integrity, and let us know how you'd like it. We are fine with either way.

I literally just laughed out loud, integrity Jesse, integrity, I will not blow you up in public on the lack of integrity you displayed which destroyed any possible working relationship we may have had, but what you are saying also makes no sense. Its like when Terry posts in my threads about how a JB4 can solve a tuning issue someone is having, by all means Terry go ahead, now if Terry was selling N55 stage 1 turbos and was posting about them in my thread, well you see the conflict of interest there? Since you do not sell any fueling upgrades at all, letting people know they can fix their fueling issues and make more power with YOUR turbos seemed like a normal thing to do. As far as Rob above, you blew up our working relationship when you went on this very forum, and dropped bold faced lies because you could not figure out how we were making the power we were, after you were proven wrong, you thought an apology, and $100 was going to fix everything, it did not. I know guys are buddy buddy now, which is great you fit very well in bed together. Jesse we will not try to help any other Pure Customers with fueling issues in your threads. Cheers

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Originally Posted by Tony@vargasturbotech

As far as Rob above, you blew up our working relationship when you went on this very forum, and dropped bold faced lies because you could not figure out how we were making the power we were, after you were proven wrong, you thought an apology, and $100 was going to fix everything, it did not.

You blew up our working relationship long before you ever realize, and I expect no less from you in that regard.

As for the bold face lies, you are correct that we were incorrect on how you presumably had done it. However, we do not believe you were making the power you were marketing either way… as your car demonstrated that is was actually only making about 500rwhp in the real world results. So we now just chalk it up as a very generous dyno, until we see more that illustrates otherwise, but 124mph traps certainly aren't enough.

Sorry for the off topic OP.

Rob