[kscarrol]

Dig the design!!

[nyalpine90]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Yeah, its a concern. Some of the neighbors in the area go stay at hotels during windstorms. Our neighbor down the hill has a 52" Doug Fir directly up slope from her house. it's gotta be 170 feet tall. it's absolutely massive. The nice thing for us is that the big wind storms tend to blow from the south to north and our neighbor to the south has a ton of mature trees along the property line, acting as a good windscreen.



We are definitely pinched for space back there due to the property setback. The simple answer is "no". At least not without cascading changes that impact other things. Only thing we will have in there is an on-demand water heater and an HVAC air handler. Should be enough space I think, but what are you thinking? Am I missing something?

is the air handler for heating and cooling?
on demand water heater, do you know how it works vs having a tank type water heater?

once the plans are distributed to the engineers that will design plumbing,electric and mechanical plans might need to be tweaked.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

is the air handler for heating and cooling?
on demand water heater, do you know how it works vs having a tank type water heater?

once the plans are distributed to the engineers that will design plumbing,electric and mechanical plans might need to be tweaked.

I may have the term wrong for that air unit. The house will have a mini split heat/ac unit. There's some air pressure management gizmo that goes in there. I dunno. It's all "modern" fancy shit that's new to me. I'm used to good old fashioned furnaces and a box fan for cooling.

Yeah, the drawings are off to structural engineering next. That's in maybe 6 weeks. Until then we keep refining.

I guess I'm curious as to what you are thinking might need to go in the mechanical room that won't fit in 42sqft. It's seemed plenty big to me but I've never actually had a mechanical room in any of my houses. Just a basement with a dusty old furnace.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Dig the design!!

Thanks! Me too. Finally a proper garage and dedicated wood shop, fully heated and with 10' ceilings!

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

on demand water heater, do you know how it works vs having a tank type water heater?

I'm curious about opinions for electric tank-type, versus electric tankless whole house on-demand and point-of-use tankless on-demand units under every sink?????

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I'm curious about opinions for electric tank-type, versus electric tankless whole house on-demand and point-of-use tankless on-demand units under every sink?????

I dont know much about the on-demand tankless electric, but our architect and builder are both thinking it might be an option for our master bath which is a pretty far shot from the mechanical room. We could be spending a lot of time running the water, waiting for it to heat up, in that room. And since the master is the biggest consumer of hot water, that's a concern. I can tell you they pull a shit-ton of power. I looked at a unit that can do just under 5.0 gallons per minute (about what you'd want to support filling a baththub) and that sucker needs 120 amps of service! Probably a non-starter for us as we have an electric car and I have a shop full of woodworking equipment. We'd need a 400 amp service into the house to ensure my wife could take a bath while I escape to the shop to do some woodworking, while her car is charging.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I'm curious about opinions for electric tank-type, versus electric tankless whole house on-demand and point-of-use tankless on-demand units under every sink?????

Not sure about point of use, but here in FL we have a tank water heater and in NC we have tankless. Honestly little difference for us. In NC the heater is in the basement and it only takes a few seconds for hot water to start coming out, however it’s a small house. Takes longer in FL where the house is larger and the heater is on the opposite side of the master. Still we are use to it and just turn it on a minute or so before we plan to use it.

We have a large tank in FL so it’s very rare to run out, however in theory I liked the idea of the tankless never running out. It’s also MUCH smaller and ours runs on propane. Overall I think if I had a choice I would have a tankless.

[chassis]

What are everyone's thoughts on building material prices, contractor (labor) costs and contractor availability for the upcoming spring 2022 building season?

Same as last year, or better (lower prices, easier to find contractors)?

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by chassis

What are everyone's thoughts on building material prices, contractor (labor) costs and contractor availability for the upcoming spring 2022 building season?

Same as last year, or better (lower prices, easier to find contractors)?

Availability will be location-dependent, but I know of a few families that thought they had it all planned out. Finally decided to sell the house and plan to buy property to build the dream home.

Each one of them have broken their property purchase contracts as the availability of materials and even contractors willing to take on the custom jobs was far and few between. Things like windows were 6 months out and they haven’t even finalized a design to determine exactly what windows and how many.

I, for one, would love to do what DETRoadster is doing (and it’s looking killer!), but it sure is a wild time to be doing it. Gotta have those connects!

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

I dont know much about the on-demand tankless electric, but our architect and builder are both thinking it might be an option for our master bath which is a pretty far shot from the mechanical room. We could be spending a lot of time running the water, waiting for it to heat up, in that room. And since the master is the biggest consumer of hot water, that's a concern. I can tell you they pull a shit-ton of power. I looked at a unit that can do just under 5.0 gallons per minute (about what you'd want to support filling a baththub) and that sucker needs 120 amps of service! Probably a non-starter for us as we have an electric car and I have a shop full of woodworking equipment. We'd need a 400 amp service into the house to ensure my wife could take a bath while I escape to the shop to do some woodworking, while her car is charging.

My current small house only has a 100 amp service...and we own *two* electric cars!

Why I was wondering this last night is because of a problem that we're having in our house. When I turned the thermostat up for the first time this fall on Wednesday night, the oil boiler didn't warm the house. (It also does our hot water via an attached storage tank, but that has been fine and running all along.)

After two visits, the repair company said that the boiler was shot and needed to be replaced. They slickly offered several replacement packages like a used car dealer, with the premium one costing $23K and the cheapest at around $14K. I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born LAST night!

I was looking at all of the options for heat and hot water last night, from a clean-slate perspective. As you noted, I don't have the power budget for even a small old-school electric tanked water heater. A replacement boiler costs $2,100 to buy, plus $$$$ for the hot water storage tank. (I would replace both, just because they are coming up on 20 years old and our well water literally eats through copper pipe.) Fortunately, we have our ducted "ductless" heat pump system, so other than cold showers we will not be cold indoors until the polar vortex dips again.

Long story short, my DW found this Navien combo-boiler and hot water unit that runs on natural gas or propane:

https://www.navieninc.com/products/ncb-190-060h

The street price is $2,500, it hangs on the wall, vents exhaust to the outside via 2" PVC pipe through the wall, has stainless steel heat exchangers to hopefully cope with our pipe-eating well water, and the hot water function is whole house, on demand. Oh, and it is Energy Star, 95% efficient, and qualifies for a federal tax rebate. If we have to replace our current boiler setup, this is my current #1 choice (and converting from oil to propane).

When my DW's family got wind of the $23K quote this morning, my legally-blind plumber-in-law showed up at our door right away. He confirmed my suspicion that there was something wrong with the water pressure in the radiator loops, and discovered that the automatic fill valve was frozen due to corrosion from the water. I'm not convinced in his prognosis that the boiler is otherwise healthy, but he thinks that it can run for a few more years if we change the $60 fill valve. Did I mention that he's legally blind and found an obvious problem that the professional repair dude either didn't discover or chose to intentionally hide from us?

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

We have a large tank in FL so it’s very rare to run out, however in theory I liked the idea of the tankless never running out. It’s also MUCH smaller and ours runs on propane. Overall I think if I had a choice I would have a tankless.

What I discovered while looking at the options last night is that modern plumbing installs use a hot water loop to the fixtures, with a circulator pump that keeps the hot water fresh near the faucets with a return pipe back to the water heater. The Navien unit above is designed for this. Since DETRoadster is doing a clean-slate design, this is something that he may want to discuss with his planning engineers as an option instead of point-of-use water heaters.....

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by chassis

What are everyone's thoughts on building material prices, contractor (labor) costs and contractor availability for the upcoming spring 2022 building season?

Ironically, our SC building lot is on the tax rolls as a tree farm, and has 5 acres of southern pines just about ready for a saw mill. I say ironically because our plans are to build 100% steel, so we can't use the "free" wood that came with the lot in our construction.....

[nyalpine90]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I'm curious about opinions for electric tank-type, versus electric tankless whole house on-demand and point-of-use tankless on-demand units under every sink?????

the advantage of the tank type hot water heater is that the tank always has hot water ready to go.
tankless, no tank of course and it will take few minutes to get hot water going, the further the bathroom it will take longer.
if you have large house with more then 2 bathrooms, i would recommend tank type.
small house with 1 bathroom, tankless is ok.
tank type will give you more hot water if you have washer/dishwasher on and someone jumps in the shower. With tankless, furthest bathroom will suffer getting hot water and maybe get warm water.
electric hot water heaters draw alot of electricity.
make sure you have hot water return with circulating pump
solar panels would be good idea to have.
how are you heating the house

[nyalpine90]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

I may have the term wrong for that air unit. The house will have a mini split heat/ac unit. There's some air pressure management gizmo that goes in there. I dunno. It's all "modern" fancy shit that's new to me. I'm used to good old fashioned furnaces and a box fan for cooling.

Yeah, the drawings are off to structural engineering next. That's in maybe 6 weeks. Until then we keep refining.

I guess I'm curious as to what you are thinking might need to go in the mechanical room that won't fit in 42sqft. It's seemed plenty big to me but I've never actually had a mechanical room in any of my houses. Just a basement with a dusty old furnace.

so no boiler/furnace..
its all electric scenario, any chance to go with propane?
why not central ac? you wont have the rectangle unit mounted on the walls for each room.. Now i am curious to see the engineering design.
you have a nice floor plan, custom home. Try going with central ac, just my 2 cents. im in the engineering field
pm if you have any questions,

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

how are you heating the house

In the early planning phases for the Garage Mahal barndominium in South Carolina, I am leaning toward a central AC and heat pump system. With no ceiling and minimal walls, a long exposed plenum through the rafters will add a nice industrial touch to the inside and keep the system simple. I'll probably use point-of-use electric hot water, but have a few years to research the options.

My immediate disaster is that the oil-fired boiler in our current house is pissing a small stream of water all over the basement, to the point of rusting the side of the boiler's case out. The boiler also provides our hot water, via a boilermate tank. Our well water eats through copper pipes, and I'm amazed that the boiler and boilermate have lasted 18 years without springing leaks.

Our house is small, and a 60K BTU boiler is overkill. (Our central AC is an 18K BTU inverter "ducted" ductless heat pump for sizing comparison.) We're not freezing yet because the heat pump is running, but the lack of a warm shower is getting to me after two days now.

I'm trying to get a price on a Navien combi-boiler install and propane conversion while we have the opportunity to upgrade away from oil. I like the idea of having propane for adding a backup generator in the future, and the on-demand tankless hot water isn't a concern when our longest pipe run in the house is less than 15 feet.

It's not in crisis mode yet because the heat pump can keep up with anything but a polar vortex dip, but we only have a 100A electric service so I don't have a quick/temporary hot water fix while we figure out what we want to do long-term.....

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

so no boiler/furnace..
its all electric scenario, any chance to go with propane?
why not central ac? you wont have the rectangle unit mounted on the walls for each room.. Now i am curious to see the engineering design.
you have a nice floor plan, custom home. Try going with central ac, just my 2 cents. im in the engineering field
pm if you have any questions,

Correct. HVAC is all electric. That's currently mandated by code for all new commercial construction in this area and the conventional thought is that it will soon become mandatory for new residential as well. We will have natural gas for fireplaces, stove, and shop heating. The weather is typically pretty mild in the PNW so we dont need crazy big capacity heating or cooling components. We haven't gotten to HVAC design just yet but that's coming soon. The architect and builder both are suggesting an electric mini-split system, likely either ducted or with the heating/cooling units installed (but still accessible for maintenance) in the ceiling. So none of those ugly boxes hanging off the top of the wall.

I'll keep you posted as we get to that point of the design. That's probably a few months out.

[DETRoadster]

Oh dear. Went looking at kitchen cabinets yesterday. My wife discovered "European" cabinets from Pedini (Italian) and Leicht (German) as well as porcelain counter tops. There goes the budget.

[kscarrol]

Cha ching!

[nyalpine90]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Oh dear. Went looking at kitchen cabinets yesterday. My wife discovered "European" cabinets from Pedini (Italian) and Leicht (German) as well as porcelain counter tops. There goes the budget.

very nice kitchen setup

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Oh dear. Went looking at kitchen cabinets yesterday. My wife discovered "European" cabinets from Pedini (Italian) and Leicht (German) as well as porcelain counter tops. There goes the budget.

Guess that I'm not totally crazy for wanting to use a roller toolbox for a kitchen island, like this $748 stainless steel one when we start building:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X1ZSSW2/




.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Guess that I'm not totally crazy for wanting to use a roller toolbox for a kitchen island, like this $748 stainless steel one when we start building:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X1ZSSW2/




.

Need wheels on that stool to roll from the sink to the "island" etc....

Edit: Or I suppose you just roll the entire "island to the sink.

[DETRoadster]

We are soliciting bids this week for structural engineers. Big firm that has the resources to start in 2 weeks bid $9400. Little 1 man shop that our architect recommended bid $4300 but cant start till February. Damn it!

[DETRoadster]

Well, we locked in the Structural Engineer at $9400 because they can get started in 2 weeks and everyone else was either booked out for months or didnt return calls.

Apparently we also have to manage storm water run-off, which takes a civil engineer to design a plan to. That's another $3600. Good grief. This thing is becoming a monster!

I added both to the running tally in Post #1 in case anyone is following along.