[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by wind

I think 335i cars are french poodles to some people who never drive these cars faster than 90 with occasional bursts to 110 and preoccupied with the HP and 19 inch tires and aerodynamic kits--decorating their poodles' chests with as many medals they can get .
Not to brag, I raced my stock E90, 6 speed, sport etc on German autobahn against 540i reaching 155 mi/hr and will tell you--it is a real German Shepherd that just gets the job beautifully done and doesn't need much of your medals attached to its chest.
Above said is not related to people who seriously race their modified cars and need every little advantage they can get.
Hope I added a new twist in the "Soap Opera" for SNIZ

Here is a "REAL GERMAN SHEPHERD": Select Ch Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes ROM. "Dallas" is the only dog in the history of the breed with 100 Best in Shows and 100 Champion offspring.

I guess my car is a poodle but I have had some nice German Shperds over the years.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Here is a "REAL GERMAN SHEPHERD": Select Ch Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes ROM. "Dallas" is the only dog in the history of the breed with 100 Best in Shows and 100 Champion offspring.

I guess my car is a poodle but I have had some nice German Shperds over the years.

Gorgeous GSD! This was our GSD; not a show dog, but highly trained by our local Sheriff K-9 trainer. He was my best friend, other than my wife of course ...

[wind]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Here is a "REAL GERMAN SHEPHERD": Select Ch Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes ROM. "Dallas" is the only dog in the history of the breed with 100 Best in Shows and 100 Champion offspring.

I guess my car is a poodle but I have had some nice German Shperds over the years.

Takes guts to admit it.My hat is off for you, Dawgdog.
Gorgeous Dog on the picture. That is excactly what I was on the autobahn when I smoked that German guy in 540i 4 repeatetive times almost killing us because of him losing it and trying to pass me over on the right (illigal in Germany) when I was slowing down and trying to change the lane because of my friend's screaming (my friend had a panic attack during the race)

[stressdoc]

Always ask passengers if they are comfortable driving at high speeds. Bizarre that a 540i would drive stupidly if he/she was an experienced German driver.

[wind]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Always ask passengers if they are comfortable driving at high speeds. Bizarre that a 540i would drive stupidly if he/she was an experienced German driver.

I was apologizing to my friend till the end of the trip and even made him drive the car at 155 with me in passenger seat. I don't know what happened to me but I was so much in control of this machine...
I normally don't do this kind of stuff with people in the car. Well, I assumed he was German, he could have been French
Great ED post, stressdoc. Enjoyed.
Sorry guys for trashing the tread.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Do you know of any PROcede users that have lost their warranty?

Uhmm...I didn't think so....


P.S. Speaking of educated customers...The name is PROcede, not proceed.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...arranty+voided

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by sflgator

It doesn't really matter; what matters in this case is the end result. Check the stats, dynos, and drag strip runs of PROcede v2 cars. We don't need to argue about the pros/cons of the Piggyback vs. the ECU Flash, but we should agree that both tuners (Shiv and Steve Dinan) now know quite a bit about the N54 engine in the 335i. I for one can say that through my own personal experiences with Shiv over the past year have shown me that I can trust him in terms of tuning this car.

so based on your assessments, just b/c the end (bottom line) for procede = the most HP than any other product out you automatically position yourself on this side? Its about comprimising reliability, power and price. Pick the 2 which are most important to you b/c you have to comprimise somewhere. IMHO, if I am going to pay for a piggyback, I expect no help in the event of a catastrophic engine failure. In other words Proceed, SSTT and JB2 would all leave me stranded...Neither of these guys would lend a dime to get me back up and running...If you think otherwise you're beyond naive.

Although the Dinan doesnt have the most HP, it does provide one thing the others all lack, reliability backed by a warranty. Why can they back their product by a warranty? B/c they are pretty certain that you can push the car to their level w/o any problems. If anybody for 1 second even thinks ANY of the aftermarket tuners/engineers outside of the ones who manufacture and design cars understand and know the cars better than the manufacturer's own engineers than go jump off a bridge. BMW has more R&D and $$ invested in their auto's than Shiv, Dinan etc etc.

The issue here is that most people simply want the fastest 335, and in that case, go for the option with the greatest HP. Others want a little more power but the confidence of modding without having to always remove a piggyback for fear of a voided warranty or harrassment.

IMHO, if you wanted to pay <600 get the JB2 or SSTT...if your paying >1k I personally would get the Dinan just b/c I am already paying alot, but I can rest assured I have a warranty and not have to constantly fiddle w/ the piggyback and limp modes and attempting to find somebody who can service my car. I dont live near Shiv, and I highly doubt Shiv would fly out to service my car...but tehre are Dinan dealers all over the states.

The fact I work 2 jobs doesnt give me time to F around and play phone tag or even post up my problem on this forum and wait 24/48 hrs for a response.

Lastly, if I simply wanted the most HP I'd just get the Proceed v2.

Remember, pick 2 (Power, Price, Reliability).

Choosing price as your main determining factor would land you with either the JB2 or the SSTT.

CHoosing power would land you the Proceed v2

Choosing reliability would land you the Dinan

In the end however, time will tell. As more modded 335s rack up mileage and wear/tear we will see which will hold up better in the long run.

I remember when I owned a G35 coupe the same thing occurred. A Single Turbo kit which was conservative was released, a TT kit which was more risky was released and a Stillen supercharger which maintained the factory warranty through stillen wsa in the market. People always got bent out of shape when one or the other was discussed...

[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Here is a "REAL GERMAN SHEPHERD": Select Ch Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes ROM. "Dallas" is the only dog in the history of the breed with 100 Best in Shows and 100 Champion offspring.

I guess my car is a poodle but I have had some nice German Shperds over the years.

lol, I love german shepherds. I've had 2 before and I just got one about 2 months ago. He is five months old now and is a really big boy, about 55 pounds). However, he isn't allowed in my car which is abvious why.

[T Bone]

What the hell happened to this thread?




BTW, German Shepard is my favorite dog

[x26]

I once had a White German Shepard...

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

so based on your assessments, just b/c the end (bottom line) for procede = the most HP than any other product out you automatically position yourself on this side? Its about comprimising reliability, power and price. Pick the 2 which are most important to you b/c you have to comprimise somewhere. IMHO, if I am going to pay for a piggyback, I expect no help in the event of a catastrophic engine failure. In other words Proceed, SSTT and JB2 would all leave me stranded...Neither of these guys would lend a dime to get me back up and running...If you think otherwise you're beyond naive.

Although the Dinan doesnt have the most HP, it does provide one thing the others all lack, reliability backed by a warranty. Why can they back their product by a warranty? B/c they are pretty certain that you can push the car to their level w/o any problems. If anybody for 1 second even thinks ANY of the aftermarket tuners/engineers outside of the ones who manufacture and design cars understand and know the cars better than the manufacturer's own engineers than go jump off a bridge. BMW has more R&D and $$ invested in their auto's than Shiv, Dinan etc etc.

The issue here is that most people simply want the fastest 335, and in that case, go for the option with the greatest HP. Others want a little more power but the confidence of modding without having to always remove a piggyback for fear of a voided warranty or harrassment.

IMHO, if you wanted to pay <600 get the JB2 or SSTT...if your paying >1k I personally would get the Dinan just b/c I am already paying alot, but I can rest assured I have a warranty and not have to constantly fiddle w/ the piggyback and limp modes and attempting to find somebody who can service my car. I dont live near Shiv, and I highly doubt Shiv would fly out to service my car...but tehre are Dinan dealers all over the states.

The fact I work 2 jobs doesnt give me time to F around and play phone tag or even post up my problem on this forum and wait 24/48 hrs for a response.

Lastly, if I simply wanted the most HP I'd just get the Proceed v2.

Remember, pick 2 (Power, Price, Reliability).

Choosing price as your main determining factor would land you with either the JB2 or the SSTT.

CHoosing power would land you the Proceed v2

Choosing reliability would land you the Dinan

In the end however, time will tell. As more modded 335s rack up mileage and wear/tear we will see which will hold up better in the long run.

I remember when I owned a G35 coupe the same thing occurred. A Single Turbo kit which was conservative was released, a TT kit which was more risky was released and a Stillen supercharger which maintained the factory warranty through stillen wsa in the market. People always got bent out of shape when one or the other was discussed...

I guess you didn't read my quote...

..."I for one can say that through my own personal experiences with Shiv over the past year have shown me that I can trust him in terms of tuning this car."

I'm not sure how long you've been following all this 335i tuning stuff, but since you just joined this Forum 2 months ago, I'll fill you in a bit. My car has had Shiv's old XEDE and now PROcede (v1 and v2) on for 1 year (~ 18k mi.) combined without any "catastrophic engine failure." In fact, not one 335i with a piggyback or other engine tuning mod has blown up (at least not one specifically caused by the tune anyway ). So, enough with your ridiculous "alarmist" attitude; get with the program...your car will NOT blow up with ANY of the current engine performance mods available for the 335i today (including the PROcede v2)!!!

The fact is that BMW made this engine with enough headroom for this kind of engine tuning...the Dinan ECU Flash confirms this (although HP/TQ are more in line with PROcede v1.47 with less TQ). Either way, most ppl here will not drive their 335i's more than 3 years, so any contribution from these mods leading to the eventual "degeneration" of the the N54 engine will most likely not be seen for a very long time...well beyond the first driver's enjoyment of this vehicle. Get my drift?

[san~man]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

Choosing reliability would land you the Dinan

You can you make a statement like this when the tune's only been out a few weeks?

Dinan can/may still have unforeseen problems.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by san~man

You can you make a statement like this when the tune's only been out a few weeks?

Dinan can/may still have unforeseen problems.

And then they'll be covered by warranty. Right?



Look, to all you Shiv haters, I gotta tell you, Shiv has a TON of experience tuning modern F/I engines, and has built a tremendous reputation in the field amongst the highest and most qualified tuners.

Basically, this guy has forgotten more than most of you know about tuning turbos, so leave the f@nboiii crap at the door, and just try and engage in some good discussion. We're lucky to have him in the BMW community, not just because he sells a product, but because it's knowledge like his that moves tuning platforms as a whole. I've seen it happen. This is just the beginning - after all, we're still talking piggybacks and intakes.

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Actually we have a pretty good idea when Steve started working on the 335 because of all the interviews and leaks. But who cares? What does this red herring have to do with the price of cheese in Denmark???

Again, as Stressdoc stated, it's pretty well documented on the forum that Dinan began R&D pretty late in the game relative to Vishnu. Maybe they have more stringent requirements for R&D, maybe they were focusing on other projects, or maybe their business model dictated a lag time for new-model R&D that relegated the 335i to low-profit status until sufficient numbers of targets existed before a product became viable. I'm guessing the latter based on the fact that they waited to even procure an n54 for many months following it's retail release. My previous perception of the Dinan BMW relationship was that they were in such close contact that Dinan would receive prototype, or at the very least, pre-US release models from BMW. Evidently, they buy development platforms on the same basis as any small tuner, which very much debased my esteem for the company, which was in turn based on the fact that they have a direct dealer agreement with many BMW dealerships. Dinan still has a nice niche (perfromance:warranty), but it's being eroded from both sides by other tuning companies and BMW, as they push forward with their own OEM after-sale enhancement line.

[nj1266]

Originally Posted by A418t81

If you think that a company coming out with an actual reflash a year after a vehicle is released and going against the "established" piggybacks is coming "in at the bottom of the 8th" you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This cycle repeats itself EVERY single time a new platform is released. To date, guess which tuning option evaporates every time: The piggybacks.

This exactly describes my experience with the Evo. Prior to the availability of a cheap flashing alternative, I bought an Xede piggback for $750. A couple of months after I got it a cheap flashing alternative arrives, ECUflash. The software is free and the cable is $90. A few months after that, I end up removing the Xede and flashing the ECU with MUCH better and consistent results. Now I cannot give the Xede away. It is worthless. All the other piggybacks are also wrothless, including ECU+, etc...

It is not an accident that Shiv left the Evo market. The Proceed has no competitive advantage in that market. Once the Evo X comes out, he might come back since we need CAN capability to interface with the new ECU and that is not readily available. His Proceeds will sell, but then will fade away into oblivion once we are able to flash the Evo X ECU.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by nj1266

It is not an accident that Shiv left the Evo market.

It looks to me like Shiv's still in the Evo market.

[orientblue3]

Originally Posted by lawdude

It looks to me like Shiv's still in the Evo market.

He probably meant he's no longer developing new software updates, etc.

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by nj1266

This exactly describes my experience with the Evo. Prior to the availability of a cheap flashing alternative, I bought an Xede piggback for $750. A couple of months after I got it a cheap flashing alternative arrives, ECUflash. The software is free and the cable is $90. A few months after that, I end up removing the Xede and flashing the ECU with MUCH better and consistent results. Now I cannot give the Xede away. It is worthless. All the other piggybacks are also wrothless, including ECU+, etc...

It is not an accident that Shiv left the Evo market. The Proceed has no competitive advantage in that market. Once the Evo X comes out, he might come back since we need CAN capability to interface with the new ECU and that is not readily available. His Proceeds will sell, but then will fade away into oblivion once we are able to flash the Evo X ECU.

BMW owners are different from EVO owners in that they care too much about getting their warranty voided.

Flash = Voided Warranty, 100% no way around it.
Piggy = If properly installed/uninstalled. It is fully transparent.
Why is this important to the BMW market vs. the Evo market?

Repair bills

Good LUCK getting your Fuel pump replaced with your FLASHED ECU. It will cost you a at least 2K out of pocket.
How much is that N54 motor compared to the Evo motor you can pick up just about anywhere used or new?

This is why there will always be more of a piggyback market for higher end applications.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Steve Dinan approached us months ago to sell private labelled PROcedes. Although, to be fair, he did say he eventually planned on releasing a reflash.

shiv

I could never see Dinan selling, and especially offering a warranty on something so Beta and causing so many cars to malfunction as the Vishnu piggybacks. Never seen any evidence of this at all. Why would he need to relable a Procede (or was it xede) when it would be a simple process for him to make the maps and sell his own Xede if he wanted to go that route?

[bmwzimmer]

If Dinan were to use a Procede, they would definitely play it very safe and conservative with pretty low hp/tq gains. This would ensure all the various targets are met meaning no limp codes. Also with BMW techs doing the install vs. a newb, you will not have any user installed issues or laptop communication problems.

[b335i]

All of this data is very interesting. hopefully someone will be able to compare the v2 vs. dinan on a bone stock car. I am up in the air about which tune I want to do, as the PROcede has voided at least one persons warranty and was not completely "transparent." I just got my car on 12/28 so I have a bit until it is broken in.

Does Dinan ever come out with flash updates? Seems like they could have done a bit better, without putting the engine components at risk.

[M3EST]

The procede can be taken out and sold.The flash not.