[Templar]

In most states I am pretty sure YOU, being the gun owner or CCW holder, have to be in imminent danger to discharge your weapon, not just near a situation where some people may or may not be in danger (because if you're not there you really don't know, right?)

Now, if you were nearby and happened to run and kill the guy before he was able to kill 20+ people? I honestly don't know what would happen. The logical side of me says you'd be detained, questioned, and eventually released and maybe praised for your heroics. The other side of me feels that in today's world, you'd be locked up and charged with some degree of murder because the guy you killed was "just a troubled young man and didn't deserve to die."

[David70]

Or guy pulls a gun you kill him and someone else (accident) and everyone agrees that your lack of training and skill were partly to blame. The innocent person and his family obviously would have rather tried their luck with any alternative and feels that you are responsible.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Templar

In most states I am pretty sure YOU, being the gun owner or CCW holder, have to be in imminent danger to discharge your weapon, not just near a situation where some people may or may not be in danger (because if you're not there you really don't know, right?)

Now, if you were nearby and happened to run and kill the guy before he was able to kill 20+ people? I honestly don't know what would happen. The logical side of me says you'd be detained, questioned, and eventually released and maybe praised for your heroics. The other side of me feels that in today's world, you'd be locked up and charged with some degree of murder because the guy you killed was "just a troubled young man and didn't deserve to die."

Yeah you would have to let him kill at least one before taking him down, just to be safe.

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Yeah you would have to let him kill at least one before taking him down, just to be safe.

And make sure you have a witness video record you explaining what you are about to do

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

And make sure you have a witness video record you explaining what you are about to do

Yeah but then it might be premeditated then you're really screwed!

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Yeah but then it might be premeditated then you're really screwed!

Awe man.....saving people just seems so....not worth the trouble

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by David70

For those that are for Trump's "ban on allowing Muslims into the U.S." -

With a large portion of Africa and SE Asia being Muslim, then with Christians and every other religion also living everywhere, for those that support banning Muslims, how exactly do you do it? Just ask them?

Offer them a McRib sammich and a cup of Jambalaya?

[bbbbmw]

In 1952 the US (democrat) congress and Democrat president passed a law that gave the President the authority to gather a person or class of people and detain or deport them, if they were a potential threat to the country. Jimmy Carter used that authority in the late 1970's to round up Iranians in the US, and deported thousands of them. Many were students who had lapsed visas, etc.

So there is a legal backing and precedent to what Trump proposed.

[EL Jeffe 5]

Do we also Block our military members from coming back pretty sure we have Muslims in service???
I think somebody should ask Trump that.
On other hand what do? well we do you destroy them. How you ask don't just play war games on internet and tell people how we should destroy them join the Service and go kill couple of them.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

Do we also Block our military members from coming back pretty sure we have Muslims in service???
I think somebody should ask Trump that.
On other hand what do? well we do you destroy them. How you ask don't just play war games on internet and tell people how we should destroy them join the Service and go kill couple of them.

What are you talking about AGAIN? This is a liberal scare tactic talking point. Of course not. This wouldn't apply to US citizens. Only foreigners who are citizens of Muslim governed countries. Geez


Besides, it's just trump being loud, not real. It's his way of bargaining. His end game would probably be stop the refugees being forced to come here by Obama. Get a grip.

[Andrewthefirst]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What are you talking about AGAIN? This is a liberal scare tactic talking point. Of course not. This wouldn't apply to US citizens. Only foreigners who are citizens of Muslim governed countries. Geez


Besides, it's just trump being loud, not real. It's his way of bargaining. His end game would probably be stop the refugees being forced to come here by Obama. Get a grip.

This.

Plus, this was an airtime/attention grab.

[David70]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

In 1952 the US (democrat) congress and Democrat president passed a law that gave the President the authority to gather a person or class of people and detain or deport them, if they were a potential threat to the country. Jimmy Carter used that authority in the late 1970's to round up Iranians in the US, and deported thousands of them. Many were students who had lapsed visas, etc.

So there is a legal backing and precedent to what Trump proposed.

Any idea on how you would actually do this even if it made sense? Muslims live all over the world. Also, being in conflict or war with a certain country and not allowing citizens from this country to come here is far different taking one of the biggest religions in the world and trying to stop all of these people from coming here.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Besides, it's just trump being loud, not real. It's his way of bargaining. His end game would probably be stop the refugees being forced to come here by Obama. Get a grip.

So he continues to say he would like to do it but when we question it we are the ones that need to get a grip, got it thanks. Maybe he should clue us in to which of his outlandish proposals are what he actually wants to do and which are him trying to bring attention to himself.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by David70

Any idea on how you would actually do this even if it made sense? Muslims live all over the world. Also, being in conflict or war with a certain country and not allowing citizens from this country to come here is far different taking one of the biggest religions in the world and trying to stop all of these people from coming here.

So he continues to say he would like to do it but when we question it we are the ones that need to get a grip, got it thanks. Maybe he should clue us in to which of his outlandish proposals are what he actually wants to do and which are him trying to bring attention to himself.

Trump's position on this has been blown out of proportion by both the media and the candidates. What he has said is:

1. We should place a moratorium on non-American Muslims from entering the US until we can figure out what's going on.

2. This moratorium (which is a temporary stoppage) would apply to visitors as well as immigrants.

3. It would not affect Muslim Americans, nor Muslims currently in the US. (Including US Armed Services members who are Muslims, etc. - so that whole part of the conversation is nonsense).

He also said the details would need to be worked out.

How to identify Muslims? Again, these are details that need to be worked out, but perhaps could include those coming from primarily Muslim countries, or perhaps those involved in various ways with ISIS.

Looking at what he actually said is quite different from what is being broadcast. The alternative (which we are doing today) is to simply ignore a very real threat to our security and our interests. No one else in the campaign, much less Obama, is doing or proposing anything at all.

[kmarei]

let's assume you ban all muslims from entering the country

what do you do about people such as the ones that carried out the Paris attacks?
they were French citizens, and changing your religion in legal paperwork is not a difficult task
so you end up with a French man, Christian, applying for entry into the US?

I am totally against banning 1.6 billion people from entering the US (especially that the vast majority of them aren't terrorists) based on their religion.

plus even if you ban them, guess what, they will enter from your southern border which is a wide open as a hookers legs
so end result is, you take a radical solution, that doesn't fix anything, but makes it clear that the US is anti islam.
which means the terrorists win.

Also, if all Muslims are bad, why does Donald trump have business dealing with them in the billions?
doesn't that make him an accessory?

[wdb]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

The alternative (which we are doing today) is to simply ignore a very real threat to our security and our interests. No one else in the campaign, much less Obama, is doing or proposing anything at all.

You can't seriously believe that the issue is being 'simply ignored' by security agencies.

You can't seriously believe that nobody besides Trump is 'doing or proposing anything at all'.

If you can, I can't take you seriously.

[V1.47fan]

Please, keep these cocksuckers out of the country.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Please, keep these cocksuckers out of the country.

"Belgium 2030"

[FenixMike]

As someone in the federal law enforcement industry, I thought id step in a bit.

First off with "background checks". Its a gimmick in itself as they will have no US history unless they were arrested at some point or made it on a watch list, which even then we have seen at many airports people "miss" those on there because they either don't care, or don't have the knowledge to properly search. If you think their home countries are going to just give us whatever we want on each person you are also mistaken... basically the background check will be a self assessment with someone doing a quick scan and then approving or declining their entry. With the San Bernardino shooters, her visa was full of lies and no one caught it until it was too late, who knows how many more have already moved here with similar errors, and how many more will come in with the US (and other countries) having no real ability check anything.

Im not going to jump on either side of the ban or don't ban, which president elect is right etc, but a common story I hear is a true one... Someone gives you a jar of 1,000 M&Ms, and of those 1,000, 6 are poisonous and will kill you instantly. Will you still eat any of the M&Ms ? Would you let your children, family or friends eat them?

To some being politically correct and "helping" others is worth the risk of an attack as too many have the "it wont ever happen to me" attitude, or will bring some sort of statistic where more people in america are killed by americans with guns or whatever. With that in mind, I see President Obama on a regular basis pull the "If it could save only one child, its worth it" line, so at what point does making a drastic change to immigration come into play where we may save lives instead of just waiting for the next attack? Unfortunately instead, too many just focus on gun control, even though every time this happens, it tends to be in an area where guns are not allowed, and in this case, with guns which were illegal to have in california.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

As someone in the federal law enforcement industry, I thought id step in a bit.

First off with "background checks". Its a gimmick in itself as they will have no US history unless they were arrested at some point or made it on a watch list, which even then we have seen at many airports people "miss" those on there because they either don't care, or don't have the knowledge to properly search. If you think their home countries are going to just give us whatever we want on each person you are also mistaken... basically the background check will be a self assessment with someone doing a quick scan and then approving or declining their entry. With the San Bernardino shooters, her visa was full of lies and no one caught it until it was too late, who knows how many more have already moved here with similar errors, and how many more will come in with the US (and other countries) having no real ability check anything.

Im not going to jump on either side of the ban or don't ban, which president elect is right etc, but a common story I hear is a true one... Someone gives you a jar of 1,000 M&Ms, and of those 1,000, 6 are poisonous and will kill you instantly. Will you still eat any of the M&Ms ? Would you let your children, family or friends eat them?

To some being politically correct and "helping" others is worth the risk of an attack as too many have the "it wont ever happen to me" attitude, or will bring some sort of statistic where more people in america are killed by americans with guns or whatever. With that in mind, I see President Obama on a regular basis pull the "If it could save only one child, its worth it" line, so at what point does making a drastic change to immigration come into play where we may save lives instead of just waiting for the next attack? Unfortunately instead, too many just focus on gun control, even though every time this happens, it tends to be in an area where guns are not allowed, and in this case, with guns which were illegal to have in california.

so should this same rational apply to crazy white Christian terrorists as well?
or does this only apply to Muslims?


check out this article

there is more Jewish terrorism in this country than Islamic
but you bet your A no one will ever say ban the Jews!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mus...merica/5333619

white supremacists have killed more people than Muslims
so if you want to make this country safe, ban the Muslims, Jews, and white people. and I am pretty sure Latinos also contribute a lot, ban them as well.
http://securitydata.newamerica.net/e...y-attacks.html

[David70]

Originally Posted by kmarei

let's assume you ban all muslims from entering the country

what do you do about people such as the ones that carried out the Paris attacks?
they were French citizens, and changing your religion in legal paperwork is not a difficult task
so you end up with a French man, Christian, applying for entry into the US?

I am totally against banning 1.6 billion people from entering the US (especially that the vast majority of them aren't terrorists) based on their religion.

plus even if you ban them, guess what, they will enter from your southern border which is a wide open as a hookers legs
so end result is, you take a radical solution, that doesn't fix anything, but makes it clear that the US is anti islam.
which means the terrorists win.

Also, if all Muslims are bad, why does Donald trump have business dealing with them in the billions?
doesn't that make him an accessory?

Agree except I don't believe any of my "paperwork" (passport and Global Entry card) has my religion on it. Then if it did, guessing the terrorist has enough sense to put down what we like to see.

I also find it interesting that Trump does business with many of the same people he would like to ban from coming to our country. Guessing his plan, if it was allowed to be put in place would severely dampen these and every other international business dealing. "I'll come see you, our country is banning you from coming here, but please buy our products."

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Im not going to jump on either side of the ban or don't ban, which president elect is right etc, but a common story I hear is a true one... Someone gives you a jar of 1,000 M&Ms, and of those 1,000, 6 are poisonous and will kill you instantly. Will you still eat any of the M&Ms ? Would you let your children, family or friends eat them?

If someone tells you that over 30,000 people die in car accidents each year (massively greater odds than being killed by a terrorist), do you let your children, family or friends still take unnecessary automobile trips (for fun/vacation) or do you take reasonable steps to make it as safe as possible and move on with life? At the same time also looking for more ways to make automobile transportation safer but including "reasonable" in the decisions.

[catcher22]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm not sure what there is for me to believe or not. You said you are agnostic but put muslim on the form, so you lied on the form. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Nice try. There is no 'agnostic' on the form, and many people in the US who identify with a religion don't practice it. You can stop trolling me now, stop deflecting, and answer the question which I think I already know the answer to.

[Bols]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

"Belgium 2030"

We all laugh at this but damn is this country going to the shitter fast!

Imho the multicultural society has failed on almost every aspect, atleast in the EU. And by multicultural failure I'm talking mostly arabs, northern africans, eastern europeans.. a lot of of those Muslim. Some cultures will never get along. NEVER. Not even if you let them build 100 mosques here or give them free housing and 4k a month like we do..

I can't even fathom why we still ponder about religion I mean seriously it's 2015 there should be no freedom of religion because it shouldn't exist, religion is for dummies there is no floating man just because some guy wrote a book 2k+ years ago Are people going to worship harry potter as a god in the same amount of time? Will we have holy steam trains and broom shaped buildings?

And trying to help refugees is one thing, but over here villages need to fucking spread pamflets explaining to these people how they should properly use toilets, how to not litter everywhere, how not to harass women...

If you like them so much take them in, but I guarantee a refugee camp near you means you could just as well move out then and there your neighbourhood is going down the drain. Meanwhile they refuse free items because it's not in fashion, they apply to multiple countries for asylum and then sue the state for extra daily allowances holy cow I could go on and on...

bottom line to me: some cultures work together well, some don't. Where most of these refugees come from it's the latter when combined with western society unfortunately because they push views upon others aggressively..

Please don't let the same thing happen to the US!