[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I’d move to a safer location or out of Germany ���� if need be

But regardless a garage is a must anywhere you live these days specifically with a nice car

My location is perfectly safe. I am surrounded by multi-million-euro houses.

There is no place you can drive here where some scrote won't damage your car.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by baron95

Exactly this. The Cayman has always been top 2 or 3 on my list and it was #1 once (OG GT4), but I couldn't get the allocation.

Precisely because it is not a 911. A lot of respect for the 911, but it seems to attract a bunch of posers who can't drive and are not even car guys.

The 718 GTS, in particular is an understated sublime machine. The GT4 (non-RS) dialed it up just one more notch. RS is just too much for the street - I'd be embarrassed driving it anywhere near me.

The perfect Porsche for me would be a gasoline powered Taycan - so much more beautiful and elegant than the Panamera. Whish they made one.

The allocation game is honestly exhausting - I didn't have any trouble getting one for my 718 Spyder (purchased at MSRP), but I had to wait almost a year before the car arrived. I am guessing, and this is pure speculation, that I was "skipped" a few times by folks willing to pay the ADM.

I really want a Spyder RS, but the ADM in my area is starting at 50K over MSRP, which makes the car roughly $225k after taxes. The GT3 engine alone is worth a nice price delta, but that's already factored into the MSRP that's $60K more than the regular Spyder, at least when I bought mine.

Long story short, the experience is really turning me off to the brand and all of the shenanigans required to get the car you want. I have no problem paying sticker for one of these cars, but to hand $50K to the dealer and receive absolutely 0 value in return is...madness. So I won't do it.

The regular Spyder (and GT4) is an awesome car - but Porsche lied for years that the GT3 engine wouldn't fit...until they made it fit. So the 4L engine I have just isn't as special and the car sounds god awful in stock form. Add another 10k for the inconel exhaust I put on the car, and you've got something pretty amazing...but no 9K RPM and no insane intake noise. Not sure what I will do with it to be honest.

[flexspec]

This comparison seems illogical to me because the two vehicles differ significantly in many aspects. It’s puzzling why MotorTrend decided to pit them against each other. Realistically, it’s hard to imagine a buyer seriously deliberating between a $60k car and a $120k car.
The price delta doesn't typically reflect the kind of dilemma an average consumer faces during serious buying decisions — unless car buying is now like an episode of House Hunters and the budget is just a suggestion. 😂

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by flexspec

This comparison seems illogical to me because the two vehicles differ significantly in many aspects. It’s puzzling why MotorTrend decided to pit them against each other. Realistically, it’s hard to imagine a buyer seriously deliberating between a $60k car and a $120k car.
The price delta doesn't typically reflect the kind of dilemma an average consumer faces during serious buying decisions — unless car buying is now like an episode of House Hunters and the budget is just a suggestion. 😂

You’re looking at it wrong.

These comparisons are like putting a Bugatti Chiron against the M4, that Top Gear did years ago (or Veyron at the time, not sure). It’s a benchmark to show how cars perform.

Except, in this case, they put a car that does nothing the M2 can do, while showing the M2 can do most of what that car can do, if not better… so it’s an ode to the M2, a compliment. And it costs half as much…

[flexspec]

Originally Posted by M2siast

You’re looking at it wrong.

These comparisons are like putting a Bugatti Chiron against the M4, that Top Gear did years ago (or Veyron at the time, not sure). It’s a benchmark to show how cars perform.

Except, in this case, they put a car that does nothing the M2 can do, while showing the M2 can do most of what that car can do, if not better… so it’s an ode to the M2, a compliment. And it costs half as much…

Kind of like putting a $50k tiny house against a multimillion dollar one.
I fail to see the relevance to the consumer who is in the market for an M4 or another looking to purchase a Bugatti.

These comparison are noninstructive and lack relevance. Seems more like a novelty than anything of real substantive value.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by flexspec

Kind of like putting a $50k tiny house against a multimillion dollar one.
I fail to see the relevance to the consumer who is in the market for an M4 or another looking to purchase a Bugatti.

These comparison are noninstructive and lack relevance. Seems more like a novelty than anything of real substantive value.

If your $50k house does everything the multimillion dollar house does, and more, are situated in similar neighbourhoods, and is only a tiny bit smaller than the multimillion dollar one, you bet the comparison is valid. Of course I’m referring to comparing the Cayman to the M2, not the other comparison I brought up as a showcase of benchmarking (that showcase would be illustrating the multimillion dollar home assets versus what you’d get in a really nice $50k home).

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by flexspec

This comparison seems illogical to me because the two vehicles differ significantly in many aspects. It’s puzzling why MotorTrend decided to pit them against each other. Realistically, it’s hard to imagine a buyer seriously deliberating between a $60k car and a $120k car.
The price delta doesn't typically reflect the kind of dilemma an average consumer faces during serious buying decisions — unless car buying is now like an episode of House Hunters and the budget is just a suggestion. 😂

Originally Posted by M2siast

You’re looking at it wrong.

These comparisons are like putting a Bugatti Chiron against the M4, that Top Gear did years ago (or Veyron at the time, not sure). It’s a benchmark to show how cars perform.

Except, in this case, they put a car that does nothing the M2 can do, while showing the M2 can do most of what that car can do, if not better… so it’s an ode to the M2, a compliment. And it costs half as much…

I agree with both of you.
That said, it is a weird comparison.
Almost makes more sense to compare the base 911 with the M2 due to 2+2 practicality. Right?!

[abrandonment]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I agree with both of you.
That said, it is a weird comparison.
Almost makes more sense to compare the base 911 with the M2 due to 2+2 practicality. Right?!

Would kill for that video next.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I agree with both of you.
That said, it is a weird comparison.
Almost makes more sense to compare the base 911 with the M2 due to 2+2 practicality. Right?!

I agree. The Cayman doesn’t make any sense for this comparison. Base 911 or 911 CT makes more sense depending on which transmission they want to test.
With that said, most people buying a Porsche are not focused on saving money.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by robopp

I agree. The Cayman doesn’t make any sense for this comparison. Base 911 or 911 CT makes more sense depending on which transmission they want to test.
With that said, most people buying a Porsche are not focused on saving money.

Perhaps the 991.2 base manual would be a fair comparison because you can get that for the approximately the same price as a 718 GTS.

The 992 T is $145k+ as most are optioned with 15k of goodies.

[matty_f]

I’ve been driving a 2023 C4S loaner for the last 3 weeks. I don’t think it’s 90k better than the M2, but it is a fantastic machine. I’m surprised the reviewer didn’t go with the Cayman, but I haven’t driven one so 🤷🏻‍♂️.

[Bumpinjeep]

I view these two cars as having a similar purpose, to be enjoyed while being driven. I think both accomplish that really well. Hell, you can even argue that a $30K BRZ or FRS or whatever they're called these days, do the same exact thing. You get into the car and you really enjoy the art of driving. These cars make boring commutes fun. So in reality, you win when you purchase either of these two cars.
For me, I can see myself in a Cayman GTS but the G87 simply makes more sense.
Performance-wise, the G87 is faster in a straight line, faster around a road course, has amazing balance and brakes, and punches way above it's class.
Practicality-wise, the G87 wins hands down as it has back seats, a large trunk, soft suspension when needed, etc.
Fun-wise, I love the overall package the G87 has, I like that it's a little muscle car/sports car, disguised as a practical coupe. The limits on these cars exceed a fair amount of drivers.
Overall, I love the tech, I love the carbon buckets, I love the carbon roof, I love the power and precision, it's an amazing car and comes with a tried and true 6 speed.
The Cayman GTS is an awesome car though. It handles like it's on rails, has decent power, true sports car characteristics, and can be just as fun as the G87, just in a different manner. I prefer the G87 though, but then again, I do need seat time in the GTS. I used to work at a Porsche dealer when I was in high school and absolutely loved the 781 Boxter, it was such a blast.
It's a fun comparison and i'm glad that we can actually make it, gives real car people something to look forward to.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I view these two cars as having a similar purpose, to be enjoyed while being driven. I think both accomplish that really well. Hell, you can even argue that a $30K BRZ or FRS or whatever they're called these days, do the same exact thing. You get into the car and you really enjoy the art of driving. These cars make boring commutes fun. So in reality, you win when you purchase either of these two cars.
For me, I can see myself in a Cayman GTS but the G87 simply makes more sense.
Performance-wise, the G87 is faster in a straight line, faster around a road course, has amazing balance and brakes, and punches way above it's class.
Practicality-wise, the G87 wins hands down as it has back seats, a large trunk, soft suspension when needed, etc.
Fun-wise, I love the overall package the G87 has, I like that it's a little muscle car/sports car, disguised as a practical coupe. The limits on these cars exceed a fair amount of drivers.
Overall, I love the tech, I love the carbon buckets, I love the carbon roof, I love the power and precision, it's an amazing car and comes with a tried and true 6 speed.
The Cayman GTS is an awesome car though. It handles like it's on rails, has decent power, true sports car characteristics, and can be just as fun as the G87, just in a different manner. I prefer the G87 though, but then again, I do need seat time in the GTS. I used to work at a Porsche dealer when I was in high school and absolutely loved the 781 Boxter, it was such a blast.
It's a fun comparison and i'm glad that we can actually make it, gives real car people something to look forward to.

"The limits on these cars exceed a fair amount of drivers."

Exactly. 99 percent of drivers (myself included) will never take these cars to their limits. That does not mean they will not appreciate the handling characteristics, but for most people any chassis-related advantage or disadvantage one of these cars has is not really particularly relevant.

They are both smallish, low-slung sports cars with good power and dynamics.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

I'd imagine the GTS 4.0 is a better car in almost every dimension. It better be considering it MSRPs for almost 50% more. I'm hearing the ADM on those right now is in the tens of thousands of dollars, also.

The 2020 GT4 was my dream car for a while. It hurts me that they're not producing it anymore.

I bought the M2 because it's relatively cheap. It's in a class of its own for cost/performance.

My ADM was $2500 circa 05-2023. Have things changed in half a year?

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Do not understand the obsession with 718. After driving several of them one has to go to gt4 rs to get the excitement level that will feel like an upgrade from m2 power.
at double m2 price in that video 110 vs t2 it presents outdated technology, old platform and questionable livability
Here is car and driver complaints on the cayman gts
Still, running up 40,000 miles in 17 months surfaced several annoyances that dented the GTS's daily-driver cred. Just try to find convenient storage space in the cabin for personal items like phones, keys, wallets, and purses. The interior offers only narrow flip-out door pockets, a sliver of space under the center armrest, and tiny behind-the-seat bins inconveniently located by the rear quarter-windows, though there is a normal glovebox. One of our testers thought the brake-pedal feel could be firmer; another found the seat uncomfortable on long drives and rued the absence of adjustable lumbar support. The electric parking-brake actuator button seems to work backward. Some judged the featherlight shifter throws to be a little too video-game-like, though no one complained of missing a shift. The only way to turn off the rev-matching feature in Sport and Sport+ modes is to disable the stability control. Weird.

We've never had a long-term vehicle logbook where the word “perfect” appeared more often. That adjective preceded raves about the tactility of the steering, the high-rpm yawp of the flat-six, the intuitive handling, the effortless shifter, the powerful brakes, and the surprisingly supple ride. The GTS proved both thrilling on fast serpentine roads and surprisingly comfortable on day-long 600-mile interstate journeys—but it was also happy puttering down to the supermarket. It looked every bit as good as it drove too, classy and expensive in its understated dark-green livery.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Perhaps the 991.2 base manual would be a fair comparison because you can get that for the approximately the same price as a 718 GTS.

The 992 T is $145k+ as most are optioned with 15k of goodies.

$15k? Try closer to $40k. Mine has about that much in upgrades. $15k would barely net you any substantial upgrades on that car.

Originally Posted by matty_f

I’ve been driving a 2023 C4S loaner for the last 3 weeks. I don’t think it’s 90k better than the M2, but it is a fantastic machine. I’m surprised the reviewer didn’t go with the Cayman, but I haven’t driven one so 🤷🏻‍♂️.

I guess it depends on what metrics you’re using to define “better”. Some things are hard to articulate when it comes to the differences between owning an ///M and owning a Porsche product. After 20 years and 9 ///M cars (…and a cumulative total of 14 BMW’s during that timeframe), I didn’t quite get the Porsche thing even though I lusted after a GT3. Two years into 992 C2S ownership and I get it now. I can only imagine what the experience would be like if I could afford a 992 GT3.

[ourlee]

The comparison makes perfect sense when you consider my M2 with mods v 718 CPO. My M2 build comes to $72k, add PPF $5,500 and a front lip $1600 and I’m just under $80k. My new base Boxster built like a T without wheels and interior is around $81k, my super base new cayman S is around $87k and CPOs boxsters are high 60s, CPO S cars are $80. Also, my base new C8 vert with z51 and mag is $85. All 3 are right in there.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ourlee

The comparison makes perfect sense when you consider my M2 with mods v 718 CPO. My M2 build comes to $72k, add PPF $5,500 and a front lip $1600 and I’m just under $80k. My new base Boxster built like a T without wheels and interior is around $81k, my super base new cayman S is around $87k and CPOs boxsters are high 60s, CPO S cars are $80. Also, my base new C8 vert with z51 and mag is $85. All 3 are right in there.

Trying to follow you here. Are you saying you can get a GTS4.0 used for $80k, or are you downgrading the comparison to a T or an S? I wouldn’t buy the 4 banger at any price, but that’s just me. The new S around here are pushing $100k, so not sure $87k is possible unless it has no options.

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Trying to follow you here. Are you saying you can get a GTS4.0 used for $80k, or are you downgrading the comparison to a T or an S? I wouldn’t buy the 4 banger at any price, but that’s just me. The new S around here are pushing $100k, so not sure $87k is possible unless it has no options.

I drove a newish but broken in 4.0 a few months ago. We all know about the gearing so on the street, when do we get to enjoy the NA scream? 80 mph in second? In my opinion, the vaunted 4.0 is a schit street car. I’m shopping for a 4 cylinder.
My S build
https://configurator.porsche.com/en-...08.UX6.XSC.Z1S

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ourlee

I drove a newish but broken in 4.0 a few months ago. We all know about the gearing so on the street, when do we get to enjoy the NA scream? 80 mph in second? In my opinion, the vaunted 4.0 is a schit street car. I’m shopping for a 4 cylinder.

PDK solves that gearing issue but I know we’re all purists around here

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

PDK solves that gearing issue but I know we’re all purists around here

I think the 2.5 solves it, max tq happens around 5k, ringing it out to 5500-6000 rpms is perfect fun except the bucket of bolts noise.
And don’t even get me started on a tuned S at 3100 lbs.
An old fav:

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ourlee

I think the 2.5 solves it, max tq happens around 5k, ringing it out to 5500-6000 rpms is perfect fun except the bucket of bolts noise.
And don’t even get me started on a tuned S at 3100 lbs.
An old fav:
https://youtu.be/71dPKCqVegs?si=o9orY-uDRbCchuap

“I like the sound of this. It sounds neat! It’s real fast! Woohoo!” This guy has come a long way since then, but he looks exactly the same.

I’d get the Z4 handschalter over this, which is the real comparison for the boxster or the Supra for a slick top v Cayman. The driving experience is superior in a Porsche for sure, but 4 banger for $80k is silly.