[Hedges]

Originally Posted by DG

It's me. There can be only one.

A little bird dropped me a line that I was being badmouthed and might want to take a look at what was going on.

I just had my first ever communication with Jay Morris ref Autocross to Win via PM on this site. My first ever EVER communication with him was when I bought a suspension package from him in late 98 or perhaps early 99 when I converted my car to ESP.

He claims that he has sent me emails previously. Perhaps he did; I never got them. Maybe my spam filter ate them. Certainly there has been no dialogue, debate, nor discussion.

But in any case, I'm not interested in fighting anybody (except the Taliban and their buddies) so there will be no shitstorm from me.

Autocross to Win is a collection of all I learned during my time operating Far North Racing and my subsequent time as lead engineer for a C5 racing team. A large part of that was running the shock dyno (for myself and a who's who of customers) where I made a large number of very interesting discoveries about the state of aftermarket suspension engineering and quality control. In particular, there is a LOT of crap out there. Not crap as in "I don't like so-and-so so I'll make up stories out of school" or "Brand X pays me so I'll attack Brand Y" but "holy cow I just put Brand Z on the dyno and you won't believe what I found!!"

Accordingly, A2W is full of a lot of hard-learned truths and gored sacred cows.

The single biggest lesson to come out of A2W is this - TRUST NO ONE EXCEPT YOUR OWN MEASUREMENTS. There are a lot - and I do mean A LOT - of supposed "suspension gurus" out there who have made and sold parts with little to no testing or quality control. I have seen adjusters that were not physically connected to the inside of the shock. I have seen Penskes where the left front and right front shimstacks were mirror images (ie, LF rebound was RF compression) I have seen adjusters that were so completely nonlinear that each click was like a whole new valving. I have seen horror show after horror show and I have met people who had drunk the Kool-Aid and were CONVINCED that Brand X was the hot ticket with no more evidence than their butt-dyno.

And the crazy thing is that the work to determine the truth is really very simple. It ain't rocket science or black magic. It takes a little bit of work and a willingness to shop around.

Even crazier is I know guys who won't buy an air filter or a set of spark plugs without a before and after Dynojet run who will happily drop three bills on someone's "black magic" suspension. Crazy.

Measure your suspension; it's not hard.

Model your suspension. Bill Mitchell's stuff is NASCAR-proof and easy to use, but he's not the only game in town; go with who you like.

Corner-weigh the car. Everybody knows someone with a set of scales.

Pick your spring rates, and TEST THE SPRINGS so you know how they work. I like MK Technologies' unit because it works hard to compress the spring absolutely square (any bend in the spring throws off results - and that has implications for the spring on the car)

Dyno your shocks and INSIST that any new shocks you buy come with the actual dyno plots for YOUR shocks. When I was selling shocks, every single shock came with a full adjuster sweep plot from 0-3 in/sec and a min/max plot at 1-10 in/sec - and I matched left to right where I figured they'd need to be. I consider that the absolute minimum standard.

Anybody tries to tell you that the valving or rates he wants to sell you is secret or proprietary - walk away; he has no idea what he is talking about.

Now as far as the beef Jay had with a mention of GC on A2W.. fair enough. At his request, I have posted the evidence of my claims for all to see.

DG

lol i'm jk!

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by JM3

New thread starting Monday, Jan 4.

I will answer questions about:

Ground Control suspension for the e9x and e8x.

Here is pic from our very first prototypes of M3 parts, taken right around June 3 or 4 th, 2008. We actually had ordered the control arms before the e92 M3 was available but didn't receive them until June. I have a receipt from Niello BMW in Sacramento with a date on it. Ground Control has been testing, building and selling e9x parts for a long time. Its just that we have never been a sponsor on e90 post, but that doesnt mean it hasn't been happening.

Thanks for the bandwidth, and we will try again on Monday.

Jay from GC

PS its called "damping", not "dampening" when you're talking about shocks.

A bit OT, but wow, this is interesting. You were working on using M3 parts very early on, evidently at same time or before Dinan or HPA. I was surprised that the Euro tuners with close links to BMW (Alpina et al) did not use M3 bits in their kits. Might say something about their relationship, and limits to treading on M3 territory.

To clarify, how are the damping rates calibrated for different spring rates? And how much suspension travel do these Konis have?

It will be very helpful when we get comparison tests.

And please, to other posters let's keep this thread on topic. No saber rattling, no trolling.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

A bit OT, but wow, this is interesting. You were working on using M3 parts very early on, evidently at same time or before Dinan or HPA. I was surprised that the Euro tuners with close links to BMW (Alpina et al) did not use M3 bits in their kits. Might say something about their relationship, and limits to treading on M3 territory.

To clarify, how are the damping rates calibrated for different spring rates? And how much suspension travel do these Konis have?

It will be very helpful when we get comparison tests.

And please, to other posters let's keep this thread on topic. No saber rattling, no trolling.

We had a few of the M3 pieces already on our project 335i at Bimmerfest 2008 and was trying to show off the M3 strut tower brace kit(The only M3 piece you can really see easily), no one even noticed because of the oem fit and looked like it came from the factory that way!

[zsapphire7]

soooo... after all that debate, what is the motion ratio for the front of our cars aproximately?

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by JM3

The advantage of going into full scale production, with a production based company like Koni, is the the service and warranty are "Consumer style" rather than boutique or race style.

The SPGC Koni dampers have a lifetime warranty, that is simply not possible with smaller boutique type companies.

Didn't see where anyone confirmed this....I can.

Koni shocks on my bike leaked after 10 years use - Koni made good on their lifetime warranty though the tech at my local dealer swore they wouldn't. New Koni shocks were delivered.

This may be an older thread, but makes a pretty good read. This thread motivated me to thoroughly mod my suspension - looking forward to that! Order placed w/GC -- will post my experience.

I've great respect for Koni, and that these may be the last shocks I buy for this ride amazes - that's quality.

Speediance, I see you're around - frequently pass through San Jose - your offer for a suspension look-see still open? Interested in your experience w/diff spring rates; haven't finalized same w/Jay.
.

[AYF80]

Would the KW V1 be compatible with all the M3 suspension parts? thats the rout I'm going as of now. Im getting a good deal on the V1. But i too want to get it all done at once.