[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Well they're a bmw specific performance speed shop and they use these on all their track cars so I'll let you know. Rest of the build us sick too.

Cool, thanks. I'm sure they know what they're doing and AKG doesn't make half-assed stuff.

I'll bet the build is sick, gonna share pics right?

[Fundguy1]

Oh yes.

Did a factory delivery of a 2008 artic white/saddle 335i e93 with manual trans and every option except Idrive, active steering, and winter package.
A few years ago I added:
BMW front and rear bumpers, side skirts
Laser Interceptor Jammers
Hard wired a Garmin and Passport
15% tint all windows.
Juicebox 3.

So now with 200,000 miles the turbos crapped out, I went to trade in for a 2009 M3 e93 with 40,000 miles, Stealer said give me your car and $850 a month for 5 yrs and you can have it. No way. My car body, interior, etc is perfect. Looks like 10,000 miles. So I decided to spend half of what they asked and make an M3, and just about everything else, killer.

I decided to do it in stages.

Stage one was to install:
Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires 235/35-19 front, 275/30-19 rear
Breyton rims 19x8.5 front, 19x9.5 rear
A JL touring carbon fiber rear wing
Black and white carbon fiber roundels
Clear reflectors
VRSF 7" FMIC with aluminum downpipes
Juicebox 4 G5 with 2 step module
New oem water pump, radiator, PCV valve
Smart Top module
Cree 80w angel eyes
Stoptech drilled and slotted rotors, pads
Valve cover gasket
Walnut blast head
NGK plugs
Oil filter gasket
Compression test cylinders, check coils and injectors

On 1/13/15 Stage 2
Vargas stage 2+ turbos with 9 blade Garrett clipped turbos, 6x6 billet compressor, 20T drive gear
Motiv Dual disc clutch and flywheel
VRSF charge pipe
VRSF catless downpipes
Boost addictions rear diff lockdown
BMS clutch valve and clutch stop
Fuel-it stage 3 LPFP
Forge Diverter valves
maybe wavetrac LSD with AKG black subframe bushings

Early February stage 3
wavetrac and bushings if not already done
KW V2 with 1" drop
M3 front swing arms
Cobb V3 with Motiv/PTF tune
Motiv fuel rail
m3 or msport steering wheel

So that s the plan.

[justpete]

Very nice! Have you looked to see if the stock injectors will support the increased power? Or does the new rail include upgraded parts? And does the clutch have sprung or solid hub friction discs? Didn't see engine and trans mounts in the list but I think you'd mentioned them before. Gonna be a sweet ride! Thanks for sharing.

[edit]You might want to consider installing an Ultimate Clutch Pedal if that Motiv clutch is heavier than stock.[/edit]

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by justpete

Very nice! Have you looked to see if the stock injectors will support the increased power? Or does the new rail include upgraded parts? And does the clutch have sprung or solid hub friction discs? Didn't see engine and trans mounts in the list but I think you'd mentioned them before. Gonna be a sweet ride! Thanks for sharing.

Fuel rail takes care of extra injection. Clutch is a dual disc from motiv. Spec makes it. I couldn't tell you but it's made to take 1,000 hp and minimize chatter with close to stock feel. Engine and trans I'm planning on going with new oem bushings. I'm trying to keep it as quiet as possible from whine, chatter, vibration, and noises.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Fuel rail takes care of extra injection. Clutch is a dual disc from motiv. Spec makes it. I couldn't tell you but it's made to take 1,000 hp and minimize chatter with close to stock feel. Engine and trans I'm planning on going with new oem bushings. I'm trying to keep it as quiet as possible from whine, chatter, vibration, and noises.

If the clutch will feel close to stock then it must have sprung hubs, at least it won't be as brutal as a solid hub dual disc and a billet flywheel. I'm guessing you don't have to worry about shifting under load in turns at speed so extra stiff engine and trans mounts are critical to avoiding a moneyshift.

[Fundguy1]

Still learning a lot about bushings etc so recommendations are appreciated. Installer felt oem engine and trans mounts would be fine and sausage they had to match or one would wear faster than the other. Probably going with new oem diff bushings, etc. Need to know what else to replace on the suspension. I'm doing M3 front control arms, KW v2 coilovers, but I don't know what other bushings, mounts, etv should get replaced when I do these that aren't included. Suspension is currently stock sport suspension with 206,000 miles.

[Fundguy1]

Please explain the money shift, how it's caused, how to avoid, etc.I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything and wise enough to ask.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Still learning a lot about bushings etc so recommendations are appreciated. Installer felt oem engine and trans mounts would be fine and sausage they had to match or one would wear faster than the other. Probably going with new oem diff bushings, etc. Need to know what else to replace on the suspension. I'm doing M3 front control arms, KW v2 coilovers, but I don't know what other bushings, mounts, etv should get replaced when I do these that aren't included. Suspension is currently stock sport suspension with 206,000 miles.

No worries, it's much more complicated than most imagine really.

He's right about keeping the engine and trans mounts "matched", it's possible to break the engine mounts if only the trans mounts are made solid. It's also possible to break the engine mounts if they're made solid aluminum, and the engine will destroy itself one way or the other, too. Has to be blueprinted and balanced to survive solid mounts and even then an ATI Super Damper is needed just to let the engine live through abrupt acceleration, etc. And yet it's still not unusual to shear an oil pump shaft.

The suspension depends on what you want for a ride. It sounds like you want to keep NVH close to stock, is this correct? If so I'd recommend at least Group N bushings in the toe arms and if you don't mind the shop welding on your subframe the Bimmerworld inner swingarm (spring arm) spherical bearings will help keep the rear planted a bit better, too. For more precise steering they and others make a spherical bearing for the LFCA but it's pointless without camber plates.

Ride quality will suffer some with these but they allow caster to be set to the maximum positive angle for highest possible dynamic camber at the expense of making the steering heavier and with a "slower" feel. Also pointless unless the spring, dampers, and roll bars can be optimized with ride height to make effective use of the change. Tires become critical as well as running pressure. All this is probably overkill though. It was just a start on my car but then it's meant for the track. And it's so loud the stereo is nearly pointless now and am considering ripping it all out to cut weight during the next mod work coming up.

If you haven't already I'd get new wheel bearings all the way around as well as tie rod ends. Oh yeah, definitely Group N bushings in the trailing arms, or Bimmerworld spherical bearings (or turned down E46 M3 parts) if you can tolerate a slight increase in NVH. These and the Group N toe arm bushings and the swingarm bearing will keep the suspension under control during launch without having to resort to a lockdown. Typically it's the trailing arm bushings that allow the rear caster to shift more positive and the toe to go negative which will cause a loss of directional stability. Also affects rear bump-toe so if the road surface is irregular or if the rear starts to hop it'll just keep getting worse until the trailing arm deflection and bushing compression is removed. The lockdown will work without adding the NVH of replacing bushings with solid spherical bearings though. If corner handling isn't critical then the lockdown is probably your best solution I think.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Please explain the money shift, how it's caused, how to avoid, etc.I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything and wise enough to ask.

It's caused by downshifting into a lower gear than intended with the engine wrapped up, typically under lateral load in a turn. Also possible on an upshift if the shifter spring centering isn't particularly stiff. The stock shifter has a carrier in the linkage that's supposed to accommodate the movement of the trans relative to the body mounted shifter lever. This allows for the driver to move the shift lever to where the expected gear's gate is in the trans but with the trans having moved under load the shifter moves the selector into the wrong gate, blowing up the engine in the process. Thus the money in moneyshift.

Backhand shifting is a way to minimize the likelihood of it happening. The only guaranteed solution is solid engine and trans mounts and something like the CAE or AKG shifters. And welcome to NVH hell... yikes. But this won't totally eliminate driver error, especially the AKG one since it has no spring centering or reverse lockout.

The CAE's stiff spring centering allows for a light touch to center the shifter in neutral on the 3-4 column which can be done in the blink of an eye due to the crazy short throw allowing for a felt reference before completing the shift. It isn't slow, it's just a learned technique. I've been asked at the grid how I managed to shift instantaneously on previous runs and it's the shifter, solid clutch and flywheel, and UCP that make it possible along with lots of practice. The solid clutch allows torque to be applied with zero delay but requires careful rev matching, another learned technique. It's a lot more critical with a solid clutch to keep the rear wheels from locking up although that's actually kinda fun.

[edit]Forgot to mention I can upshift and downshift at high revs anywhere in a turn regardless of grade without even coming close to missing the shift, feels like a topside shifter transmission.[/edit]

[Fundguy1]

How about shock or strut mounts or are those included with the KW kit?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

How about shock or strut mounts or are those included with the KW kit?

Don't know, sorry.

The HVT suspension in my car was installed using the upper shock mount from the BMW Performance suspension it replaced and they said several times they're more than good enough. You just don't want to use the original soft mounts that are stock on the sport model. HVT came with new lower shock mounts though.

Struts got mounted to the Vorshlag camber plates that were there with the Performance suspension as well. Recommended but youi'll sacrifice some ride comfort as the compliance of the upper strut mount will be gone. Steering will be more precise and responsive though.

[Fundguy1]

So group n toe arm and trail arm bushings, and rod ends. I'm keeping the stock engine and trans mounts, lockdown, and don't want to go spherical. I'm not tracking it and it's a daily driver more than anything so NVH is the enemy. The goal is to tighten it up, minimize NVH, get the ride no worse than a new M3 E92, but out handle one.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So group n toe arm and trail arm bushings, and rod ends. I'm keeping the stock engine and trans mounts, lockdown, and don't want to go spherical. I'm not tracking it and it's a daily driver more than anything so NVH is the enemy. The goal is to tighten it up, minimize NVH, get the ride no worse than a new M3 E92, but out handle one.

OK, sounds like a plan. An M3 has a wider track though which makes it easier to handle weight transfer and turn faster. But I can outhandle an M3 on the track so it's not really hard given the stock suspensions are so soft. Wait, scratch that. My car can outhandle an M3 on the track. There, that's better.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So group n toe arm and trail arm bushings, and rod ends. I'm keeping the stock engine and trans mounts, lockdown, and don't want to go spherical. I'm not tracking it and it's a daily driver more than anything so NVH is the enemy. The goal is to tighten it up, minimize NVH, get the ride no worse than a new M3 E92, but out handle one.

If you're going to replace potentially worn parts and if the new struts don't come with camber plates you'll definitely want to get new upper strut mounts, there's a lot of stuff in those things that can wear out. Sorry, forgot about those as wear items. Don't forget the wheel bearings though, when they wear the wheels wobble a bit under load and push the brake pads back making the pedal feel a bit soft.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So group n toe arm and trail arm bushings, and rod ends. I'm keeping the stock engine and trans mounts, lockdown, and don't want to go spherical. I'm not tracking it and it's a daily driver more than anything so NVH is the enemy. The goal is to tighten it up, minimize NVH, get the ride no worse than a new M3 E92, but out handle one.

G/l with that; you'll need a special press tool. My suspension tech couldn't press them into the oe toe arms; one bushing ruined, three f/s

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

G/l with that; you'll need a special press tool. My suspension tech couldn't press them into the oe toe arms; one bushing ruined, three f/s

My guys do this stuff all the time. I'm surprised your guy should have replaced what he broke.

[mob17]

Whats a good top mount as an upgrade from stock m sport? I have ohlins (335d) and will have solid SF bushes soon.

My front offside top mount is making noises so was thinking to upgrade them (left stock ones in when doing ohlins)

Originally Posted by justpete

He's right about keeping the engine and trans mounts "matched", it's possible to break the engine mounts if only the trans mounts are made solid. It's also possible to break the engine mounts if they're made solid aluminum, and the engine will destroy itself one way or the other, too. Has to be blueprinted and balanced to survive solid mounts and even then an ATI Super Damper is needed just to let the engine live through abrupt acceleration, etc. And yet it's still not unusual to shear an oil pump shaft.

Where are you getting this information from? Where have you seen evidence of any of this happening on any E9x configuration in the past?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Where are you getting this information from? Where have you seen evidence of any of this happening on any E9x configuration in the past?

Sorry, sloppy writing on my part. Should've been clear this can happen with solid aluminum mounts in extreme cases. Shearing oil pump shafts and dropped oil pickups, and worse, happen in race(d) engines with solid aluminum mounts; and sheared water pump shafts in older engines although I don't recall the engine types right offhand (M50, M52 I think). It's not something you'd be likely to see on street cars that aren't heavily tracked and even then it doesn't happen right away.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

My guys do this stuff all the time. I'm surprised your guy should have replaced what he broke.

Let me know how those turn out; been wanting to use group n in the toe arms for a long time.

[mob17]

Bumping this great thread.

Ive done some power upgrades recently and the rear of my 335d feels like its going towards the left at WOT. I'm on Ohlins and stock SF bushes. Would stiffer SF bushes help with this or could it be something else?

[Stucks]

Originally Posted by mob17

Bumping this great thread.

Ive done some power upgrades recently and the rear of my 335d feels like its going towards the left at WOT. I'm on Ohlins and stock SF bushes. Would stiffer SF bushes help with this or could it be something else?

my 335i did the exact same thing. hasnt happened since i upgraded the rear subframe bushings. do it, you wont regret it!