[Yozh]

I guess I should start getting this INPA Testo stuff soon. Don't have it yet.

To "35d", I want to point out that on our North American side, I believe there is no experience that anyone has running a stock map with a DPF hardware removed and someone actually logging it. Why I'm saying it, is that we do not know how a stock remap behaves with hardware removed, save for a limp mode and engine check light, obviously, recently confirmed by one of the recent posts by "Mik325tds". It is very likely that stock remap will overboost at a lower RPM range as well. Higher range of course. As I had mentioned in a previous PM, it is very possible that your remap behaves like a stock remap that does not consider a much more free flowing exhaust and is over boosting across the the whole RPM range. All of us with the remaps here are over boosting at a higher RPM range, but to be fair, almost of us are all running a remap by one tuner out of Toronto and it is a very refined and polished tune. A few are running RennTech too but we have not seen any logs of that that I recall. This wastegate thread is good and it shows what can and needs to be done to rectify the issue. Our wastegate is just not big enough to flow enough exhaust fast enough at high boost to relieve the pressure. I've seen 42psi at the top end of mine. I'm yet to port my wastegate and I'm running a gutted DPF with DOC still in place, but that is not enough of a restriction to provide for a necessary back pressure. I'm not an expert here though.

[iaknown]

So it looks like it is normal to have the requested lower than the actual almost across the board based on tdi's graph.

35D, post one full fueling pull from low to high rpm in 4th or so. And graph just that pull so we can see what's going on....

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by iaknown

So it looks like it is normal to have the requested lower than the actual almost across the board based on tdi's graph.

And it does not drop off that fast either, probably normal as it is not instant on/off, where tune may be requesting an instant drop. Probably normal as well. I wonder what are the values on the difference between requested and actual at coasting for example. Also, from TDI's graphs, what is more important is that at the peak, requested and actual do align. I bet with the new intercooler there will be a better alignment on the upslope of the curve where boost will rise faster and drop off slower as there will be less restriction on the intake side.

[35d]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Here's a fairly recent log that includes a brief time before and after a full fueling pull (I usually export the log file and process it with a spreadsheet to make the data easier to read).

This is with a fully open exhaust but using an external wastegate to control overboost. It's using Jarek's v1.0 experiemental remap and includes lots of H2O/methanol injection.

I added rpm to the plot as I noticed the areas at low boost where the "actual" is over the set point are places where the vehicle is coasting...

What is the boost set to in that remap 3100mbar?
Without your external waste gate was your boost raising to 3500mbar.
Testo logs to quick how can I make a graph like yours
Thanks

[35d]

Originally Posted by iaknown

So it looks like it is normal to have the requested lower than the actual almost across the board based on tdi's graph.

35D, post one full fueling pull from low to high rpm in 4th or so. And graph just that pull so we can see what's going on....

Ok I will do that. What parameters do you want me to log
1. Rpm
2. Desired boost
3. Actual boost
Anything else

Can testo log duty cycle?

Yozh with engine off requested boost shows 1000mbar and actual boost shows 1025 mbar. With stationary vehicle and engine idling requested shows 1017mbar and actual 1042 mbar.
Seems like the actual boost even with engine off is reading full atmospheric as outside was 1019 mbar according to weather reports in my area

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 35d

What is the boost set to in that remap 3100mbar?
Without your external waste gate was your boost raising to 3500mbar.
Testo logs to quick how can I make a graph like yours
Thanks

So I didn't have Testo operating/logging for that condition. But I did have the analog boost gauge data. From post #3 the video with the analog gauge showed ~37psig peak, which would be ~3550 mbar on Testo. However the more concerning #'s to me were the sustained high boost at the upper rpm's. That's where the big turbo is working by itself and would be going off the compressor map. With the external wastegate the numbers I'm now seeing at 4500 rpm seem to be on, but right at the edge, of the map (there's some assumption here about how much pressure drop happens across the OEM IC...). Which is part of the reason I wanted the better flowing IC ... which would give me some more psi of margin on the compressor map as the turbo doesn't have to work as hard to achieve a given pressure at the manifold because there's less pressure drop across the IC.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 35d

Ok I will do that. What parameters do you want me to log
1. Rpm
2. Desired boost
3. Actual boost
Anything else

Can testo log duty cycle?

Yozh with engine off requested boost shows 1000mbar and actual boost shows 1025 mbar. With stationary vehicle and engine idling requested shows 1017mbar and actual 1042 mbar.
Seems like the actual boost even with engine off is reading full atmospheric as outside was 1019 mbar according to weather reports in my area

Would be good to log the turbo drive pressure as well. Looking at the relationship between how much boost you're getting vs how much drive pressure the turbo needs to achieve that level of boost can give you insight into where you are at on the compressor map and if you are pushing the turbo into dangerous waters.

[TDIwyse]

It's still really cold out (morning low of -18F) but its warming up ...

Got a pull in where I logged the drive pressure and the manifold pressure. I'd be curious to see more drive pressure logs. I'm not sure if the drive pressure sensor just hits the wall at 3000mbar, or if the wastegates (interal + external) are working this good at clamping the drive pressure...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Yozh

I guess I should start getting this INPA Testo stuff soon. Don't have it yet.

Hey folks, Pheno and I have been working on some enhancements (I have ideas and he does the hard work - it's a totally unfair situation ). Some of those enhancements should be come out shortly, such as:
-Graphical playback of logging
-Small installation package that includes only required EDIABAS elements
-Calculated 'gauges' like Horsepower and Torque, Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, ect. Essentially, road dyno.

We were thinking it might be best to start a new thread or may be even a sticky, so that everything can be found in one place. That would include tutorials and sample videos.

What's the best way to make this available to anyone who wants to try Testo out or learn more, without searching throught the posts? And does anyone care?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

...
Got a pull in where I logged the drive pressure and the manifold pressure. I'd be curious to see more drive pressure logs. I'm not sure if the drive pressure sensor just hits the wall at 3000mbar...

I don't think I'm logging the correct drive pressure sensor in TestO. Looking back on post 89 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=89) the BMWhat app was showing ~ 55psi (~3800 mbar) at ~4300 rpm.

DWR/iaknown, do you have any insight as to what I might be doing wrong with trying to get drive pressure readings from TestO? Or is there some setting in TestO that "clips" a sensor output to some "max" value?

[DWR]

TDI, I can't work on that right now, but I will follow up.

[35d]

Can you put a feature in which can log when the wastgate or other actuators are working so say during what rpm they are working what boost pressures etc

[35d]

With my overboost issue I had the car on lift and had dis running. I removed bottom covers and could see the wastegate actuator moving in and out. The test was opening and closing in 2 sec intervals and said should move 5mm which it was doing. So now I know the Wastagte actuators, pressure converter, hoses are working.

Now is there a fix in the map to control overboost

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

With my overboost issue I had the car on lift and had dis running. I removed bottom covers and could see the wastegate actuator moving in and out. The test was opening and closing in 2 sec intervals and said should move 5mm which it was doing. So now I know the Wastagte actuators, pressure converter, hoses are working.

Now is there a fix in the map to control overboost

I think I need to learn about dis. Pretty interesting what you did.

However, you are doing an OEM test on a remapped ECU looking at some 'mapped' response. Also, not testing full opening, right? I don't think there was a question as to whether there was actuation, but rather some source of bias that was offsetting the target and actual boost.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

Can you put a feature in which can log when the wastgate or other actuators are working so say during what rpm they are working what boost pressures etc

It won't be a feature so much as a renaming of parameters so that they correspond to the common names we associate with the various sensors and actuators.

And Pheno and I could use some help with that. I see that you are using a tool to manipulate actuator outputs - if I knew how to do that I could isolate these things faster. As opposed to logging a run in the vehicle and then trying to 'reason' my way to what each parameter means. Can anyone at least send me in the right direction? Thanks.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I don't think I'm logging the correct drive pressure sensor in TestO. Looking back on post 89 (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=89) the BMWhat app was showing ~ 55psi (~3800 mbar) at ~4300 rpm.

DWR/iaknown, do you have any insight as to what I might be doing wrong with trying to get drive pressure readings from TestO? Or is there some setting in TestO that "clips" a sensor output to some "max" value?

I believe the drive pressure in BMWhat is one of those calculated parameters. Given the configuration of sensors in OEM configuration, there is no obvious way to measure actual drive pressure. Remember the AsMOD stuff? Because AsMOD is a mathematical fit to empirical data, once you start making significant changes to the 'plumbing', the empirical data no longer fits reality. So, I believe we need to rethink about how to get drive pressure. Because your setup is unique, PM me if you want to converse on how to make this happen in your vehicle.

[35d]

Originally Posted by DWR

I think I need to learn about dis. Pretty interesting what you did.

However, you are doing an OEM test on a remapped ECU looking at some 'mapped' response. Also, not testing full opening, right? I don't think there was a question as to whether there was actuation, but rather some source of bias that was offsetting the target and actual boost.

I don't think it matters if it's remaped ecu or not. The test is just to check if the actuators are working. The diagnostic just send a signal to the relevant pressure converter to turn on, by doing this the actuators starts working in 2 second intervals so you can physically see it working.

Also I think it does test full opening. For the wategate it was 5mm travel for rod,, turbine actuator 25mm and 15mm bypass plate



Here video copy and paste link into your browser

Rather then porting Wastagte or ewg can restriction be added to the exhaust such as another catalyst or sports catalyst?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 35d

...
Rather then porting Wastagte or ewg can restriction be added to the exhaust such as another catalyst or sports catalyst?

Liked the video.

You can add a restrictor plate between the down pipe and mid pipe. I had tried putting the "mixer" (item #3 here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...15&hg=18&fg=10) back in and it helped a little with the overboost before I went and did the EWG mod. You could also take a thin sheet of metal and form various size holes of smaller diameter and insert it in that interface. Not sure how small of a hole you'd need though...

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by DWR

I believe the drive pressure in BMWhat is one of those calculated parameters. Given the configuration of sensors in OEM configuration, there is no obvious way to measure actual drive pressure. Remember the AsMOD stuff? Because AsMOD is a mathematical fit to empirical data, once you start making significant changes to the 'plumbing', the empirical data no longer fits reality. So, I believe we need to rethink about how to get drive pressure. Because your setup is unique, PM me if you want to converse on how to make this happen in your vehicle.

Hmmm, I was hoping for a single parameter that was tied to the specific pressure sensor. Similar to how the MAP sensor can be seen by TestO and matches my analog boost gauge reading...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Hmmm, I was hoping for a single parameter that was tied to the specific pressure sensor. Similar to how the MAP sensor can be seen by TestO and matches my analog boost gauge reading...

Maybe I'm not understanding.

Got a pull in where I logged the drive pressure and the manifold pressure.

What do you consider the manifold sensor and the drive pressure sensor? In my mind, drive pressure is the difference in pressure across the turbine. How are you defining drive pressure? Just trying to get calibrated, so I can help you get what you need.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

I don't think it matters if it's remaped ecu or not. The test is just to check if the actuators are working.

Yes, we agree that tested for actuation. So, it is confirmed the actuators are working. That's good. I don't know if anyone thought that was the problem, though. Only the bypass is on/off. The other 2 actuators are PWM controlled. So, the question was probably more like does the displacement of the actuators match the PWM signal?

Being pragmatic, whether you are getting more boost at lower levels really isn't your big worry. At high load you are pumping up the pressure. So, you need to turn down the turbine drive pressure. Two ways to do that:
1) Decreasing upstream pressure by increasing wastegate flow. 2 methods have been shown in this forum, iaknown's and TDIwyse's.
2) Increasing downstream pressure by increasing restriction in the exhaust flow. Again, TDIwyse has given you good counsel.
The choice is yours. I know this has plagued you for a while, wish you the best of luck whichever path you go.

[iaknown]

While that test shows the actuators working at idle, it still does not rule it out completely. The wastegate actuator has a lot more travel than 5mm. But with idle vacuum and minimal drive pressure that's all the movement you'll get. You've confirmed the actuator is doing something which means the pressure converter/solenoid is working too but I'll say it again....you need to get a camera down there and take the car out for a full fueling run. Rule out that the actuator isn't binding under full travel. Then you know for sure its a wastegate flow issue....