[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Well shit, isn't that what I've been saying and I didn't even read the article till now?

You chastised me because I didn't own a 911, but here you are admitting to your own ignorance as a consumer.

So you bought an AWD Automatic 911 and complain that it doesn't drive like a Toyota Camry (if I'm correct on your complaint) nor was it as compliant as your M is.

Ok, I'm aware you and I are already not going to get along, so I'll just come out and say that sounds like a personal problem.

I was convinced that you were trolling because i didn't think anyone in their right mind would have been by spouting off about crap like you have. About things you know nothing more about than a 12 year old who's read the same crap you have, yet you persist.

The only thing i even remotely "chastised" you for was your blind allegiance to a vehicle that you haven't driven. All i really did was explain to anther member that your attitude was typically of a Porsche fanatic. This is the OT dude, harden up. No need to get rustled.

I'm curious as to what makes me ignorant as a consumer? Wanting to try something different from the manual transmissions that i'd been driving for the previous 24 years. Or wanting to experience an AWD platform over RWD, the only other drive train i've experienced? After all, reviews has said the PDK was awesome and some people swear by Porsche's AWD system.

My complaint is simple, the 911 didn't live up to my performance expectations. And upon that realization i decided that i'd rather stick with the E92 M3 because it's so close in performance to the 911, yet so far superior in all the other categories.

I'm still baffled because you don't know anything about me and what i want a car to drive like. I've been running track days before track days became popular. But for some reason, you seem to have a hard on for me. Though, i do think i've figured out one thing that may explain a lot to everyone who's been read your wildly unfounded and biased statements. I'd postulate that you simply misinterpreted everything you've read about Porsche. That may also explain why you're talking about camrys, mustangs, and 328s in a discussion about 911s and M3s.

All along you've been saying that the M4 is faster and cheaper than the 991? Maybe you know, maybe you just ignored it, or maybe you just misread, but that quote is from the test between the current 911 and the M4, neither of which i even commented on in this thread. I have no opinion on these vehicles because i have NOT driven either of them. But, i will gladly take the opinions of those who have.

The 911’s shortcomings have nothing to do with driving. If you can make peace with the fact that there’s at least one faster and cheaper German in town, the 911 experience is worth the price.

BTW, here are some more excerpts from the article about the two vehicles i've been talking about, by other people who have driven them. And you can bet that i had never read that article before, if i had, i would have posted it a while back in this thread.

The M3 M DCT simply does everything well except tow a hot-dog stand. It may even be the second-best car in the world after the M3 manual.

Everything is configurable on this hyper-tech machine, especially compared with the one-form-fits-all 911.

You can change the shock stiffness, vary the steering weight, and pick the shift speed and harshness from one of six settings. All for a price that, with the other options, still undercuts our Amish Edition 911 by $7845.

Voters found the classic 911 shape more pleasing, but the M3’s slick wrapping includes a fast, hardtop roofline and a hood with more bulge than a Jockey billboard. The BMW is longer and heavier, but some things are worth the price, including a usable—indeed, commodious—back seat and a significantly quieter cabin.

With the M3’s many buttons, you can make of it what you want: loafing commuter, track animal, high-speed touring express. But no matter how you set it, the M3 astounds. There’s more front-end grip than most people have the guts to exploit, the steering wheel able to carve perfectly elliptical arcs up a winding road at foolish speeds. Where the 911 battles each corner, sometimes in a nerve-jangling sine wave of alternating grip and push, the M3 is dead calm. It shows hardly any body roll or bobble, the chassis balanced with the poise of a Bolshoi star. Call it insulation, or call it stupendous competence, but the M3 chewed 1.1 seconds off the 911’s best Laguna lap time and was quicker through the lane-change maneuver.

When the M3’s tail wags, as it so often does in hot lapping, a finely calibrated throttle makes it easy to ride out the drift and ease it back into line. The wheel effort is lighter than the 911’s, too light for some, but the talk-back is solid, as is the sense of immutable control.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by FJJB

I'm half sarcastic and half serious with this - you think that is them to recreate the mythical Porsche steering?

When I first drove a 993 I had a "moment" under acceleration at speed where I was convinced the steering had broken. With the weight off the front wheel the steering wheel was mess. I noticed a somewhat similar dynamic but much less pronounced in a 987 Cayman.

It think its intentionally gone now that the steering is electric, but maybe they tried to put a little into the programming for old times sake? I didn't like it but the purists foam at the mouth for it.

I apologize if this is my dumbest post of all time...

I doubt it, the only one that has ever felt like that at speed was the last rendition of the RX-7. The one before Mazda decided to make changes to the front facia and add a rear lip spoiler to create more stability. With that being the case, i'm guessing mine was an anomaly. Of course i couldn't get the service advisor to drive the car at 120, so nothing was ever done about it and it was never really investigated since they couldn't drive it that fast.

[dds007]

Looking at gt3's for weeks now. ....hopefully Christmas ?

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by FJJB

I'm half sarcastic and half serious with this - you think that is them to recreate the mythical Porsche steering?
It think its intentionally gone now that the steering is electric, but maybe they tried to put a little into the programming for old times sake? I didn't like it but the purists foam at the mouth for it.

Back in the days of 911s when they came with a simple rack and pinion steering rack, no power assistance and thinner higher profile tyres - the steering feel was indeed legendary. The wheel writhed in your hands giving so much feel and information about what the front of the car was doing, it was pretty special.
Even small adjustments to the front suspension set up were easily felt through the steering wheel...I set up the corner weights on a modified 930 5 speed turbo just by making adjustments in my garage without a gauge and test driving to see the results and got it pretty much spot on.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Porsche tried to get back some of that feel back into the current models....but it would be incredible hard to fake.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Back in the days of 911s when they came with a simple rack and pinion steering rack, no power assistance and thinner higher profile tyres - the steering feel was indeed legendary.

Once upon a time a lot of cars had great steering feel. I swear I could identify the brand of cigarette butt I was running over through the steering wheel on my MGB. m--a--r--l--b--o--r--o

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by dds007

Looking at gt3's for weeks now. ....hopefully Christmas ?

Merry christmas to you!!

In hind sight, this is what i should have done. It didn't cost much more and i'm pretty confident it would have been a much better experience. That's one 911 that's still calling my name.

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Back in the days of 911s when they came with a simple rack and pinion steering rack, no power assistance and thinner higher profile tyres - the steering feel was indeed legendary. The wheel writhed in your hands giving so much feel and information about what the front of the car was doing, it was pretty special.
Even small adjustments to the front suspension set up were easily felt through the steering wheel...I set up the corner weights on a modified 930 5 speed turbo just by making adjustments in my garage without a gauge and test driving to see the results and got it pretty much spot on.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Porsche tried to get back some of that feel back into the current models....but it would be incredible hard to fake.

That's what my father was hoping to find again in his last modern Porsche purchase. 12 of the 13 911s he owned were between 1964 - 1989. He's always going on about how awesome those cars were and how he bought his first one in 1964 for $5200 right off the showroom floor. He's got lots os stories about racing american V8s on the highway and the looks on their faces as this small weird foreign car slowly pulls away from them.

He and i were going to do a nostalgia build of an older 911 but the money people currently want for even a very poor example is just silly. Hence the E30 project.

Originally Posted by wdb

Once upon a time a lot of cars had great steering feel. I swear I could identify the brand of cigarette butt I was running over through the steering wheel on my MGB. m--a--r--l--b--o--r--o

My father's road trip buddy has an MGB stuffed in the corner of his garage. Too sentimental to let it go. haha

Those two have some good early foreign sports car stories.

[eric@helix]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

My father's road trip buddy has an MGB stuffed in the corner of his garage. Too sentimental to let it go. haha

I had the same up to about a month ago. Bit the bullet and sold it. Free at last, free at last...

[John 070]

When I was a kid, I drove every Porsche model (it paid to have friends who had rich dads). Back then, the 911 had a clutch that went into the floor like a VW Beetle. Of all the cars, my favorite was the 928S with a 5-spd. Probably in retrospect it wasn't a great car, but it was like Tommy said, "There is no substitute!"

p.s. I actually liked the 944 Turbo as well, got to spend 2 years in one (it paid to have rich college friends)

I never would have believed that it's very possible there is no 911 in my future.

[Taskmaster]

I just forwarded this thread to a few of my buddies with Porsches. I hope Mr. Tonka can convince them to convert to the obviously superior E90/F80 M car instead of their crappy Porsches.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by John 070

When I was a kid, I drove every Porsche model (it paid to have friends who had rich dads). Back then, the 911 had a clutch that went into the floor like a VW Beetle. Of all the cars, my favorite was the 928S with a 5-spd. Probably in retrospect it wasn't a great car, but it was like Tommy said, "There is no substitute!"

p.s. I actually liked the 944 Turbo as well, got to spend 2 years in one (it paid to have rich college friends)

I never would have believed that it's very possible there is no 911 in my future.

The 928s was my favorite as a kid too. I was thrilled when my father purchased a Moss Green Metallic one in 1981. Sadly, at age 10, i was too young to drive it, though I remember the sound of the exhaust vividly.

I still like the 944 Trubo. But i was in love with that hatch back look so many cars had in the 80s. First car was an 85 Supra.

I was NOT a fan of this part of the movie!

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by eric@helix

Does this count?

My, my, not sure how i missed the picture of this beauty. Is this yours? Care to explain more about it?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

My, my, not sure how i missed the picture of this beauty. Is this yours? Care to explain more about it?

I'm sure your going to tell him how the M3 is 'better'

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

The 928s was my favorite as a kid too. I was thrilled when my father purchased a Moss Green Metallic one in 1981. Sadly, at age 10, i was too young to drive it, though I remember the sound of the exhaust vividly.

I still like the 944 Trubo. But i was in love with that hatch back look so many cars had in the 80s. First car was an 85 Supra.

I was NOT a fan of this part of the movie!

To this day I think the 944 Turbo looks great with its nose....shame they are not practical to own. I once came across a standard 944 for $1400 on eBay and the guy said daily driver, can commute 2 hours each way without issue. It was dented etc. but prolly should have taken a chance.....

[FJJB]

It occurred to me on the way to work this morning that I should look into a vanity plate for the M3 - 911 ENV

Figure that way if I get a Cayman or Vette later on, I can take the plate with me....

[daonlyillwiz]

Yes, I was actually looking into getting a White 2015 911 Turbo but I couldn't find the color combo I wanted AND when i did find it I would have had to wait 8 months before I could take delivery. I bought an E92 M3 instead and I do not regret the decision!

Next car will be a 911 for sure, maybe then I'll have some more patience

[fravel]

I'm a millennial college grad. P-cars!?! Yeah right. I'll be lucky if I can ever even retire.

[bogdan]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I'm sure your going to tell him how the M3 is 'better'

Give it a rest already. It was interesting discourse at first, but, now you're just adding boredom.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by bogdan

Give it a rest already. It was interesting discourse at first, but, now you're just adding boredom.

My trolling skills need work.

[Cameronc08]

Originally Posted by daonlyillwiz

Yes, I was actually looking into getting a White 2015 911 Turbo but I couldn't find the color combo I wanted AND when i did find it I would have had to wait 8 months before I could take delivery. I bought an E92 M3 instead and I do not regret the decision!

Next car will be a 911 for sure, maybe then I'll have some more patience

I'm interested how you went from looking to purchase a 165-200k car to a used 35-40k dollar car?? Seems like quite a jump when you have so many options in between!

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by eric@helix

Does this count?

F yeah it does.

[John 070]

I've been looking on eBay for that mythical "DD" 944 for $1400 (saw one a year ago), no such thing...coming across ones that have head problems @ $2500, don't run, etc. I saw a '91 S2 for 85k? lol

Personally I would love a '86'ish 944T that if it could pass inspection, I'd pay a price where if it could be driven daily, I could throw the car away a year later ($2k max)...

[daonlyillwiz]

Originally Posted by Cameronc08

I'm interested how you went from looking to purchase a 165-200k car to a used 35-40k dollar car?? Seems like quite a jump when you have so many options in between!

I agree i do have many options in between but it was either 911 turbo or Cayman GT4 and for a Cayman GT4 was an even longer wait. The way I see it the money I had put aside for the Porsche went towards the M3 and and a couple goodies for around the house including a new patio in the backyard and the rest is in my bank....Happy wife happy life right?