[EJ_3]

I'm was in the same boat.... but going with the convenience of Cobb.

[Kruz]

sub

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

Litos,

Would you feel the same if you knew that COBB did not design the flash software for the BMW 335?

I'm not saying it's not good software, but they did not develop it.

Interesting. Are you saying that Cobb didn't design the software, the tune, or both? Can you say who did on the forum or is that proprietary? Not that it matters much to me, I'm just curious.

[bigdaddycane]

Cobb didn't design the software.

If you search older (COBB) posts you can figure out who did.

[Kruz]

Who cares? They package, market, deliver, improve and most importantly service it extremely well.

[bigdaddycane]

Who cares? They package, market, deliver, improve and most importantly service it extremely well.

no sh*t.....I was posing a question to LITOS due to his COBB brand loyalty.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

Litos,

Would you feel the same if you knew that COBB did not design the flash software for the BMW 335?

I'm not saying it's not good software, but they did not develop it.

im ok with that because Cobb is putting their name on it.

same as with any other entity that plays "the middle man".

when i purchased my Nikon D700 Full Frame camera, i purchased it because of the elite sensor.

guess what?

Nikon designed the sensor, but they didn't fabricate it, Sony did.

[bigdaddycane]

I get your point, but it's not exactly the same. COBB states that they developed it.... i heard they didn't.

The software is very good, but it's just odd to me that they went outside for the BMW software.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Kruz

Who cares? They package, market, deliver, improve and most importantly service it extremely well.

+1

[Litos]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

COBB states that they developed it....they didn't.

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

Cobb didn't design the software.

If you search older (COBB) posts you can figure out who did.

either way, it doesn't change my opinion, or any of the tens of thousands of Cobb AP in circulation around the country and most likely internationaly.

do you have any facts?

[bigdaddycane]

yes, I do (you can find the name if you search older posts), but I am not going to initiate a sh*t storm on this forum. That's not what I was doing.

I will switch to COBB when they come out with Stage II. I am happy with my JB4 for now with the bolt-ons I have as I know it's setup for them.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

yes, I do (you can find the name if you search older posts), but I am not going to initiate a sh*t storm on this forum. That's not what I was doing.

well, have you confirmed with Cobb?

They probably have no idea that you're making these claims....

[bigdaddycane]

^sorry I brought it up....was just posing the question to you. I will PM next time.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

The fanboism doesnt help the OP....

Stick to facts on tunes its the best way to distinguish what works for someone.

Power, Driveability, Performance, Safety, Reliability, Features, Resale, Ease of use, Adjustability, ETC

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Power, Driveability, Performance, Safety, Reliability, Features, Resale, Ease of use, Adjustability, ETC

that is great.

i'll break it down using MY PERSONAL experience.

1) Power - Mixed
this one is tricky and i'm going to be as unbiased as possible.

the Cobb made more power than my JB4 on the same dyno on the same exact day, but i was only on Map 1 on the JB4 so it was only making @ 14psi. the Cobb peaked at 15.7 or 15.8 before it hit throttle closure. Cobb made 15hp and 30ftlbs more than JB4. you can make your own assumption.

2) Driveability - Cobb
hhmmm, the JB4 felt smoother, but the "response" was better with the Cobb. boost came on a bit more freely with less throttle.

3) Performance - Cobb
as what i said above, this is pretty tricky. needless to say that Cobb made more hp/tq on it's Stage 1 setting.

4) Safety - Cobb
the consistent low to mid 12 A/F's across the board were safer to me than mid 13's and high 12's that i was seeing from JB4. no knocking from Cobb's logs. i didn't log JB4.

5) Reliability - Mixed
hhmmm. not sure how to answer that.

6) Features - JB4
the steering wheels features are just sickening. great feature by far.

logging capabilities go to Cobb but the integration of the different maps to via steering wheel controls is far beyond what's available for Cobb right now.

7) Resale - Cobb
Cobb will always be able to sell it's software for nearly the same as it was new.

8) Ease of use - Cobb
EVEN people who claim to "install a JB in less than 7 seconds" (sarcastic) will agree that connecting the Cobb to the OBII port and pushing 3 buttons is STILL EASIER than opening the hood, fgrabbing tools, taking off that stupid piece from the firewall, opening the ECU without breaking brackets, locating wires to connect and putting everything back together.

9) Adjustability - JB4
again, they have more maps and you can change them on the steering wheels - JB4 is clearly the winner right now.





that being said, Cobb got my business because it was better in the AREAS i needed it to be

[caradd]

Originally Posted by Litos

Cobb's customer service is just as good or better than the others as well.

No one beats Terry's customer service. I've called Cobb and emailed Cobb took days get an answer. Which is more like the norm, but Terry is just ridiculous how fast he gets back to you. And I'm not even running his tune right now.

[caradd]

Originally Posted by Litos

2) Driveability - Cobb
hhmmm, the JB4 felt smoother, but the "response" was better with the Cobb. boost came on a bit more freely with less throttle.

Also known as poor boost control. It is the only thing and unfortunately the biggest thing I did not like about the Cobb AP. Throttle should be linear not full boost at 40% throttle.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by caradd

Also known as poor boost control. It is the only thing and unfortunately the biggest thing I did not like about the Cobb AP. Throttle should be linear not full boost at 40% throttle.

i never said i was seeing full boost at 40% throttle

i said the boost came on a bit more freely with less throttle.

how some people interpret one's post is awesome to say the least........

anyways, i can go 25% throttle and see @ 6psi whereas i wouldn't see 6psi until i went @ 50% throttle with JB4.

i PERSONALLY like seeing 6psi at only 25% throttle. doesn't mean it's not linear - it just means it comes on more freely

JB4 probably felt "smoother" because i wasn't making boost, or barely making any at all the way i drove the car.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Litos

4) Safety - Cobb
the consistent low to mid 12 A/F's across the board were safer to me than mid 13's and high 12's that i was seeing from JB4. no knocking from Cobb's logs. i didn't log JB4.

Keep in mind the JB4 AFR is fully user adjustable. They've selected a fueling level they feel is safe and appropriate for the boost levels on map 1 but you have the option to go much richer if you prefer using their tuning interface. It's as easy as opening the interface and changing a few numbers. Also FWIW if you match up boost levels power is the same. I remember you were at around 16psi on the Cobb vs. 13psi on JB4 map 1 when you did a comparison. Boost for boost performance is going to be similar between them. The real differences aside from price are the install process, wheel controls, in dash dash stuff, user adjustment, meth/race gas support, etc.

Mike

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Keep in mind the JB4 AFR is fully user adjustable.

i understand that - but for a novice like me, i would prefer to just plug and play

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Also FWIW if you match up boost levels power is the same. I remember you were at around 16psi on the Cobb vs. 13psi on JB4 map 1 when you did a comparison.

now that i look back on it, JB4 was 14psi and the Cobb was 15.6-15.8 before i got a closure.

but yes, i agree with what you're saying - that's why i was trying to be as unbiased as possible, hence why i advised that "you can make your own assumption"

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Boost for boost performance is going to be similar between them. The real differences aside from price are the install process, wheel controls, in dash dash stuff, user adjustment, meth/race gas support, etc.

Mike

only thing i'm jealous of is the wheels controls.

my 4 year old could install a Cobb.

i don't know or care to know about adjusting fuel on my own - i'm not willing to try that to my car.

in dash stuff looks cool, but the AP screen is very clear and very precise - looks better too

again, JB4 is great - the cost for performance is amazing and with the wheel controls it's hard to beat, unless you care about the other things that swayed me into getting the Cobb

[caradd]

Originally Posted by Litos

i never said i was seeing full boost at 40% throttle

i said the boost came on a bit more freely with less throttle.

how some people interpret one's post is awesome to say the least........

anyways, i can go 25% throttle and see @ 6psi whereas i wouldn't see 6psi until i went @ 50% throttle with JB4.

i PERSONALLY like seeing 6psi at only 25% throttle. doesn't mean it's not linear - it just means it comes on more freely

JB4 probably felt "smoother" because i wasn't making boost, or barely making any at all the way i drove the car.

I did not say you said that, I'M SAYING IT. And yes it does mean it is not linear. Look up the meaning of the word, LINEAR, the Cobb AP is certainly not that at least on my Manual.

I have several post regarding the throttle response with logs.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Keep in mind the JB4 AFR is fully user adjustable. They've selected a fueling level they feel is safe and appropriate for the boost levels on map 1 but you have the option to go much richer if you prefer using their tuning interface. It's as easy as opening the interface and changing a few numbers. Also FWIW if you match up boost levels power is the same. I remember you were at around 16psi on the Cobb vs. 13psi on JB4 map 1 when you did a comparison. Boost for boost performance is going to be similar between them. The real differences aside from price are the install process, wheel controls, in dash dash stuff, user adjustment, meth/race gas support, etc.

Mike

Actually the difference is that with Cobb your ignition/timing allows you to get to 16psi although they target load, nevertheless you can reach to that boost level without knocking, whereas with 93 octane i highly doubt and im pretty sure you cant reach 16psi of boost without knocking on JB4, whatever ur fuel enrichment is. Thats the difference!