[DWR]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Nice one! So got a custom tune from DWR?

TDIwyse and I have been working together on numerous projects for awhile now. I enjoy the exchange of ideas, his scientific approach, and mid western humor.
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts, as the saying goes. So, it is a misnomer to say he got a custom tune from me. It is always a collaboration with us.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by DWR

TDIwyse and I have been working together on numerous projects for awhile now. I enjoy the exchange of ideas, his scientific approach, and mid western humor.
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts, as the saying goes. So, it is a misnomer to say he got a custom tune from me. It is always a collaboration with us.

I also enjoy the exchange of ideas etc. This is the types of discussions I'd love to see more of publicly and I can certainly contribute plenty also.

I have had to remove my diff and send it away for warranty work and it'll be away for up to 3 weeks so I'm out of action until then but I hope we can bounce many experiences and ideas around in the future


The best place to start, and the most limiting thing at the moment for the budding self-tuner is this point:

Originally Posted by DWR

What is the max pressure that can be applied to the clutch? If you can't answer that question you can't predict the results of your efforts.

I can't answer that question with 100% certainty. The other question that I can not answer is this:

What are the units in the shift pressure tables? bar? bar per 100ms? just a factor that has a ceiling of "x"? I don't know. Nobody knows unless they have decompressed and disassembled the code, something that is not where my expertise lie and 99% of tuners also. I don't really care what the units are, I just need to know what the useable limit is. As you mentioned, the #1 thing that needs to be known for people to tune at the moment is at what value in the shift pressure tables does it reach a limitation?

I really don't like just throwing values of 6.x in random tables where the useable limit might be 4.x. Knowing in advance saves a lot of headaches and potential transmission wear.

If you could share what you know about the above, that would be an excellent start to the types of fun discussions that you mention

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Here's some interesting news with the TCU flash tool that I thought might interest others.

DWR has done some excellent work with making some modifications that I highly desired. With the addition of the new hybrid LP turbo I was wanting to extend the rpm range, but also keep the "auto shift" capability in manual mode. And be able to start in M2. And not have quite as aggressive shifting in manual mode as the xHP stg3 files.

Here's some recent data of his efforts (TestO rpm data overlayed with PerfExpert accelerometer data).

This is starting in 2nd and letting the car self shift.

I like the stock rpm shift point for the 2-3 shift, and really like the higher shifts for 3-4 and 4-5.

The extended rpm range helps utilize the higher rpm power output capability without having to rely on excess mid range torque (which I am purposely trying to minimize in this system, but its likely a bit higher than what it should be for long term reliability).

Thanks xHP for this great app. And thanks DWR for your help!

Great stuff! I especially like the higher shift point and the auto shift function in M.

[bradsm87]

Are there any other factors to take in to consideration in the shiftmap tables to estimate RPM?

My stock TCU calibration shifts at redline (around 7000rpm) in M and S modes but the Steptronic, S and XS 1>2 OSS values for example in the shiftpoint maps are all 1300. 1300 x 4.171 (1st gear ratio) = 5422.

Is that just taking the delay time to shift into consideration? I'll be able to find out after I get the car back by holding it at 6000 and seeing if it shifts in 1st but interested to see what others have found.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Are there any other factors to take in to consideration in the shiftmap tables to estimate RPM?

My stock TCU calibration shifts at redline (around 7000rpm) in M and S modes but the Steptronic, S and XS 1>2 OSS values for example in the shiftpoint maps are all 1300. 1300 x 4.171 (1st gear ratio) = 5422.

Is that just taking the delay time to shift into consideration? I'll be able to find out after I get the car back by holding it at 6000 and seeing if it shifts in 1st but interested to see what others have found.

I'm interested to know the answer to this as well. I have something similar in my maps

[_TB_]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Are there any other factors to take in to consideration in the shiftmap tables to estimate RPM?

My stock TCU calibration shifts at redline (around 7000rpm) in M and S modes but the Steptronic, S and XS 1>2 OSS values for example in the shiftpoint maps are all 1300. 1300 x 4.171 (1st gear ratio) = 5422.

Is that just taking the delay time to shift into consideration? I'll be able to find out after I get the car back by holding it at 6000 and seeing if it shifts in 1st but interested to see what others have found.

Remember that the shiftmaps are OSS - output shaft speed. You cannot directly relate them to ISS - input shaft speeds, since the TCU may not be fully locked.
(What calculating speed for any given OSS you need the reardiff ratio)

Comparing files is you best tool right now. The daten files have all the information you need.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by _TB_

Remember that the shiftmaps are OSS - output shaft speed. You cannot directly relate them to ISS - input shaft speeds, since the TCU may not be fully locked.
(What calculating speed for any given OSS you need the reardiff ratio)

Comparing files is you best tool right now. The daten files have all the information you need.

Yeah I'm happy to treat the numbers as a rudimentary number and just increase and decrease to get the desired effect. 5500rpm just seemed like a long way from 7000rpm. When I get the car back, I'll do some logs with speed logged then calculate OSS from speed and see if it adds up properly that way.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Are there any other factors to take in to consideration in the shiftmap tables to estimate RPM?

My stock TCU calibration shifts at redline (around 7000rpm) in M and S modes but the Steptronic, S and XS 1>2 OSS values for example in the shiftpoint maps are all 1300. 1300 x 4.171 (1st gear ratio) = 5422.

Is that just taking the delay time to shift into consideration? I'll be able to find out after I get the car back by holding it at 6000 and seeing if it shifts in 1st but interested to see what others have found.

The triggers are set a little early to allow time to shift without hitting the limiter.

[MMM335]

Can anyone chime in why my TCU(EGS) cant make communication with the CAS when trying to program?

Mind you i have updated the TCU from an 07+ into and 06 and flashed Alpina Successfully, trying to program to run custom maps to no avail as CAS isnt querying.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

The triggers are set a little early to allow time to shift without hitting the limiter.

Exactly right. If you look at the manual self shifts, you will see somewhat higher OSS at lower throttle, in the lower gears. These shifts do take time and the rpm is moving up pretty quickly at WOT, 1>2. The effect is greater in first gen 6HPs because of the inherently longer shifts times.

[Torgus]

Sorry if this has already been covered but when can we expect the Android App to work on a 2011 X5D? I have two I would like to code.

This is an awesome product btw. I know my buddy with a 335i 09 E90 can't wait to try it once it is available. You guys are going to make bank!

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Sorry if this has already been covered but when can we expect the Android App to work on a 2011 X5D? I have two I would like to code.

This is an awesome product btw. I know my buddy with a 335i 09 E90 can't wait to try it once it is available. You guys are going to make bank!

It's already available... It's been out a few weeks now.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

It's already available... It's been out a few weeks now.

Which maps do I buy? I don't see a X5 35D map listed...

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Which maps do I buy? I don't see a X5 35D map listed...

As long as it's compatible with your transmission(I'm 99% sure it is since the 335D and X5D are the same), buy whatever tune you want. They're each made for a different effect. Everyone talks highly of the Stage 3. Read through the last few pages of posts in this thread and you'll see.

[335dsleeper]

They are not the same. The x5 version has not been released yet.

Originally Posted by Torqu3

As long as it's compatible with your transmission(I'm 99% sure it is since the 335D and X5D are the same), buy whatever tune you want. They're each made for a different effect. Everyone talks highly of the Stage 3. Read through the last few pages of posts in this thread and you'll see.

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by Torgus

This is an awesome product btw. I know my buddy with a 335i 09 E90 can't wait to try it once it is available. You guys are going to make bank!

If the gasser version is as good as the diesel one, they will love it.

[RBT-Tuning]

Originally Posted by MMM335

Can anyone chime in why my TCU(EGS) cant make communication with the CAS when trying to program?

Mind you i have updated the TCU from an 07+ into and 06 and flashed Alpina Successfully, trying to program to run custom maps to no avail as CAS isnt querying.

MMM335 knows it already, but I will answer it again. In his case, he had trouble with the Pre-Flash Safety Checks because of his non-OEM headlights. The CAS does not properly recognize them and always says they are "ON", which avoids starting the flash. The 335i beta people already have the new app version, where you can omit this Safety Checks in such cases. All others will get it in 2 weeks, when the beta is finished.

[MMM335]

Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning

MMM335 knows it already, but I will answer it again. In his case, he had trouble with the Pre-Flash Safety Checks because of his non-OEM headlights. The CAS does not properly recognize them and always says they are "ON", which avoids starting the flash. The 335i beta people already have the new app version, where you can omit this Safety Checks in such cases. All others will get it in 2 weeks, when the beta is finished.

anyone unchecking safety flash should still minimize all other power drawing accessories so flash is successful. In my case i was able to Install and Flash without power attached (also know my battery is healthy), although backup is highly recommended to have a tender/power source connected to the car as it takes 40+ mins.

[bradsm87]

Is anybody custom tuning at the moment and suspected to be limited by the torque limit per gear table? If so, I suspect it's at an 8-cell table starting at 53DA8 in the format of gears 0-7. It can be shortened to simply gears 1-6 starting from 53DAA as they would be the only useful cells.

I do not have my car back and am not able to test this yet. Does somebody have a Windows exe tool ready to run to convert GKE215 0pa and 0da files to bin files that can be viewed with TunerPro so I can check some other stock files for comparison?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

What are the units in the shift pressure tables? bar? bar per 100ms? just a factor that has a ceiling of "x"? I don't know. Nobody knows unless they have decompressed and disassembled the code, something that is not where my expertise lie and 99% of tuners also. I don't really care what the units are, I just need to know what the useable limit is.

If you look at the raw data, the units are mBar. But that really does not help you, if you continue with your current reasoning. The table is relative. There are offsets, a main line pressure regulation valve that influences the downstream EDS solenoids, adaptive corrections, and other considerations. The transmission fluid pump can supply 17 bar of pressure, with 16 cm^3 of fluid volume per revolution. BTW, increasing pressure without some thoughtfulness, reduces the flow of fluid to the transmission fluid cooler. Heat degrades transmission fluid.

To some extent, you are correct. Without disassembling the code, it is difficult to know for sure what is happening. However, the torque of the engine, at the levels you are talking about, are of little concern for the safety of the transmission. The clamping pressure of the clutch to reduce the speed of the engine, during the inertia phase of an upshift (the pressure that is defined in the xHP XDF), causes a torque force on the transmission beyond the engine's torque. The faster the inertial portion of the shift, the higher the additional torque required slow the engine. This is why reducing the engine's torque during a shift allows more of the clutch's torque to be used for slowing the speed of rotating parts. Hence a fast shift.

Food for thought, the main fluid supply pressure sets the ultimate max pressure at the clutches. That pressure is not accessible in the current xHP XDF. That was the old school method for increasing holding power in an AT. Unfortunately, it also made for harsh part throttle shifting ( I admit I liked that when I was younger )

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by DWR

Food for thought, the main fluid supply pressure sets the ultimate max pressure at the clutches. That pressure is not accessible in the current xHP XDF.

I've come to realize that over the past couple of weeks. More table(s) to define. Again, nobody that's a custom TCU tuning hobbyist has anywhere near the expertise that dave205t has that made the decompression and disassembly possible so we're kind of at a dead end until somebody new comes into the game.

Is the main fluid supply pressure something that's constant or is it variable based on the current torque output of the engine? Does anybody outside of the secret circle know what the max main fluid supply pressure is for an Alpina B3 calibration? Again, the most helpful thing for us right now is knowing what the ceiling is for the shift pressure tables.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I've come to realize that over the past couple of weeks. More table(s) to define. Again, nobody that's a custom TCU tuning hobbyist has anywhere near the expertise that dave205t has that made the decompression and disassembly possible so we're kind of at a dead end until somebody new comes into the game.

Well, you said you have tuned engines and you probably didn't have the disassembly for the ECU. Not dead unless you are waiting for someone else to do it for you. If you understand how the trans works and you get a hold of a damos, as I suggested, you can figure out many things ... but it does take a lot of work, as others have noted. If you want something other than what has been provided, you will have to do the work or create a team to do it, IMO.

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Is the main fluid supply pressure something that's constant or is it variable based on the current torque output of the engine? Does anybody outside of the secret circle know what the max main fluid supply pressure is for an Alpina B3 calibration? Again, the most helpful thing for us right now is knowing what the ceiling is for the shift pressure tables.

Figure out how to log the EDS PWM and you can answer your own question.
I know you won't believe this, but the disassembly is so complex it is often easier to do experiments to find the answer.