[spxxx]

I've been out of the aftermarket turbo world for a while now. My turbos have somewhat taken a dump and I'm looking for suggestions on the most reliable turbo upgrade out there.

The downside is I have to go with twins, i like Vargas because they're local and Tony has always been a good guy to work with in my experience.

Anyone else have experience running upgraded twins on a pure track / racecar?

I'm leaning toward OEM for reliability unless I hear from anyone that their hybrids or aftermarket twins are running reliably on a dedicated track car at the 450whp range.

[bradsm87]

Definitely go aftermarket if it's a dedicated track car. Stock turbos power curve is crap for track use and because they're tiny, they generate a huge amount of heat and back pressure. This indirectly affects coolant and oil temps.

I personally would go with RB Next Gen Plus if you're after a bolt-on solution. Rob has been honest about the fact that it's been a long road to reliability for both him and other turbo vendors and I believe him when he says it's looking very good these days.

A custom low boost track tune with new aftermarket turbos should be extremely reliable these days.

I'm very happy with my RR600s after 12,000km. I was running 17-18psi on E20 and now running 15-16psi on 98RON as I'm selling the car and buyers will likely not want to run a blend. It's a completely different beast to stock turbos. SO much better.

[TheWatchGuy]

It depends on what class you are shooting for. Make sure you check the requirements before you do anything, as certain modifications can put you in a higher class

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Shoot me an email and let's talk fuel, supporting mods, and what sort of tracking you want to do -glad to help!

Chris

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Shoot me an email and let's talk fuel, supporting mods, and what sort of tracking you want to do -glad to help!

Chris

Just emailed Tony. Look forward to hearing back from you guys. Are GC lites in stock?

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Just emailed Tony. Look forward to hearing back from you guys. Are GC lites in stock?

Great to have another fellow n54 owner running track duty!

Quick word of advice: DO NOT USE UPGRADED TWINS. The current offerings are not designed to withstand repeated track day abuse. turb0mik3 can share more as well on this. Short story: the internals are not designed to take repeated WOT pulls for 20-30 minutes at a time. I've put a line out to a number of hybrid makers offering to help be the test mule if they wanted help designing a motorsports worthy twin offering. **crickets**

Stay with stock twins for now. Realistically at some point the upgrade path for more power would be to convert to a watercooled single turbo like a Garrett or Borg Warner EFR (stay away from Precision - oil cooled only). You lose the bling factor, but from a pure function standpoint - bottom mount makes the most sense, as heat is kept off of the valve cover/wiring + lower center of gravity.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

Great to have another fellow n54 owner running track duty!

Quick word of advice: DO NOT USE UPGRADED TWINS. The current offerings are not designed to withstand repeated track day abuse. turb0mik3 can share more as well on this. Short story: the internals are not designed to take repeated WOT pulls for 20-30 minutes at a time. I've put a line out to a number of hybrid makers offering to help be the test mule if they wanted help designing a motorsports worthy twin offering. **crickets**

Stay with stock twins for now. Realistically at some point the upgrade path for more power would be to convert to a watercooled single turbo like a Garrett or Borg Warner EFR (stay away from Precision - oil cooled only). You lose the bling factor, but from a pure function standpoint - bottom mount makes the most sense, as heat is kept off of the valve cover/wiring + lower center of gravity.

Yep, I'm leaning OEM as 425whp is pretty sufficient @ 3k lbs. Really scared of the upgraded twin world and I haven't spoken to a single person who runs them at the track.

I'd go upgraded single but I'm in a weird situation where I have to go with twins right now (Stock or upgraded) but leaning OEM.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Let us know which kit you decide to go with

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Let us know which kit you decide to go with

Will do. Looking like OEM at this point, I'm on a tight schedule to get the car back on track and I'm not trying to push the tranny too hard since I'm 6AT.

Until I hear from someone first hand that they're running 500whp on a dedicated track car with twins I'm staying stock and/or going bottom mount Garrett or other water cooled single this winter (for next year).

[feuer]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Will do. Looking like OEM at this point, I'm on a tight schedule to get the car back on track and I'm not trying to push the tranny too hard since I'm 6AT.

Until I hear from someone first hand that they're running 500whp on a dedicated track car with twins I'm staying stock and/or going bottom mount Garrett or other water cooled single this winter (for next year).

Since is AT just go with OEM twins.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by feuer

Since is AT just go with OEM twins.

Yeah with the minimal amount of shaft play I found on my 50k mile OEM turbos that have been BEATEN on that's another point for OEM turbos.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Will do. Looking like OEM at this point, I'm on a tight schedule to get the car back on track and I'm not trying to push the tranny too hard since I'm 6AT.

Until I hear from someone first hand that they're running 500whp on a dedicated track car with twins I'm staying stock and/or going bottom mount Garrett or other water cooled single this winter (for next year).

honestly, you probably pushes more tq with maxed out stock twin on e85 than a small single turbo that pull the same consistent tq all the way to the redline.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

honestly, you probably pushes more tq with maxed out stock twin on e85 than a small single turbo that pull the same consistent tq all the way to the redline.

Well that depends on my timing curve that I dial in for the car. For casual track days I run a lower power map for seat time but if I'm running a time attack event I'll push the timing up and get closer to 500wtq.

How's your car holding up? I'm stoked for the CSF radiator and larger oil core(s)

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Well that depends on my timing curve that I dial in for the car. For casual track days I run a lower power map for seat time but if I'm running a time attack event I'll push the timing up and get closer to 500wtq.

How's your car holding up? I'm stoked for the CSF radiator and larger oil core(s)

Must be pretty fun and interesting to try to put down all that 500wtq when trying to exist out of a corner, especially on a 1er lol.

Mine is running pretty good so far, just got it back from the shop last week. Currently dialing in the tune with Chris@motiv and trying to get her on the dyno for some additional tuning.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Must be pretty fun and interesting to try to put down all that 500wtq when trying to exist out of a corner, especially on a 1er lol.

Mine is running pretty good so far, just got it back from the shop last week. Currently dialing in the tune with Chris@motiv and trying to get her on the dyno for some additional tuning.

Sorry meant 500 crank, as sticky as 275/35 RE71Rs are, 500wtq still wouldn't be fun (or would be a lot of fun...?) lol

But again, that's all dependent on what RPM you tune your max timing curve at. Tuning on these engines is less about max power and more about making them feel as linear as possible which is tough.

[feuer]

1er is little squirmy due to short wheel base compared to the 3-series. 500hp is plenty since stripped 135i is about 3000lbs. Get OEM turbos and spend the difference on other mods.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by feuer

1er is little squirmy due to short wheel base compared to the 3-series. 500hp is plenty since stripped 135i is about 3000lbs. Get OEM turbos and spend the difference on other mods.

Yep, 400 wheel and 2900lbs would be amazing.

Kinda wish we had a longer wheelbase but overall this wheelbase will make us better drivers, much like people moving from S2Ks to larger cars.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Just emailed Tony. Look forward to hearing back from you guys. Are GC lites in stock?

I have had the gc 1.0 version that had a turbine failure after two years and vargas is upgrading me to the 2.0s for free. If you have any doubt about VTT they stand behind there products now (people do change). The twins do have a bad rap, but things are looking better and the low end torque is amazing on the freeway if you drive it on the street.

You mention needing this to be a dedicated track car. Will this car ever get driven on the street? If so you really have no choice but to go twins since your in CA. You wont be able pass smog with a single since it's not legal to modify anything before the cats in CA (one thing I hated about that state and happy to have left).

VTT is also right down the street from you, if you pay them to do the install I'm sure they will help you with any issues that will come up. For 500hp, you could easily get the GC lights and save some cash over the Gcs. Don't forget fuel upgrades and run full e85. That 91 CA gas is killer to engines.

If you really want a dedicated track only car get a mustang or camaro since adding an lsd to a bmw is expensive (2k). Btw, Bmws tend tp blow engines much sooner than other cars when tracking alot.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by buster84

I have had the gc 1.0 version that had a turbine failure after two years and vargas is upgrading me to the 2.0s for free. If you have any doubt about VTT they stand behind there products now (people do change). The twins do have a bad rap, but things are looking better and the low end torque is amazing on the freeway if you drive it on the street.

You mention needing this to be a dedicated track car. Will this car ever get driven on the street? If so you really have no choice but to go twins since your in CA. You wont be able pass smog with a single since it's not legal to modify anything before the cats in CA (one thing I hated about that state and happy to have left).

VTT is also right down the street from you, if you pay them to do the install I'm sure they will help you with any issues that will come up. For 500hp, you could easily get the GC lights and save some cash over the Gcs. Don't forget fuel upgrades and run full e85. That 91 CA gas is killer to engines.

If you really want a dedicated track only car get a mustang or camaro since adding an lsd to a bmw is expensive (2k). Bmws tend tp blow engines much sooner than other cars when tracking alot.

I have had the gc 1.0 version that had a turbine failure after two years and vargas is upgrading me to the 2.0s for free.

... so you are recommending OP to buy from them even after the failure you encountered? sure, they "upgraded" your failed turbo, but did they reimburse the installation or the time you lost because of this failure? how about the misleading specs (lies pretty much) about their their original cast frame turbos... VTT never changed, they are just better at marketing these days.

Bmws tend tp blow engines much sooner than other cars when tracking alot.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? e36, e46, e9x, f8x cars are some of the most popular platforms for trackdays, from all the events I have been to. I have tracked mine since the factory warranty expired in 2014. Even the N54, a non-M engine, hold up pretty good if you are not an idiot with it. After all, no engine is gonna last if you just gonna let the DME sort out all of your problems.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by buster84

I have had the gc 1.0 version that had a turbine failure after two years and vargas is upgrading me to the 2.0s for free. If you have any doubt about VTT they stand behind there products now (people do change). The twins do have a bad rap, but things are looking better and the low end torque is amazing on the freeway if you drive it on the street.

You mention needing this to be a dedicated track car. Will this car ever get driven on the street? If so you really have no choice but to go twins since your in CA. You wont be able pass smog with a single since it's not legal to modify anything before the cats in CA (one thing I hated about that state and happy to have left).

VTT is also right down the street from you, if you pay them to do the install I'm sure they will help you with any issues that will come up. For 500hp, you could easily get the GC lights and save some cash over the Gcs. Don't forget fuel upgrades and run full e85. That 91 CA gas is killer to engines.

If you really want a dedicated track only car get a mustang or camaro since adding an lsd to a bmw is expensive (2k). Btw, Bmws tend tp blow engines much sooner than other cars when tracking alot.

Appreciate the kind words.

We have plenty of customers that track their upgraded turbos. It has to do with shaft speed, back pressure, fuel, and obviously power output. You're not going to want to max out a turbo and then track the car. Street tunes are typically FAR more aggressive than track tunes -you do a pull through the gears and shut 'er down (usually). Track driving is a ton of heat -you just need to size all the components appropriately and have reasonable goals. Stock turbos are no exception to this either btw.

OP; Feel free to shoot me an email and I'd be happy to discuss your particular needs and what we recommend.

Best,
Chris

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

I have had the gc 1.0 version that had a turbine failure after two years and vargas is upgrading me to the 2.0s for free.

... so you are recommending OP to buy from them even after the failure you encountered? sure, they "upgraded" your failed turbo, but did they reimburse the installation or the time you lost because of this failure? how about the misleading specs (lies pretty much) about their their original cast frame turbos... VTT never changed, they are just better at marketing these days.

Bmws tend tp blow engines much sooner than other cars when tracking alot.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? e36, e46, e9x, f8x cars are some of the most popular platforms for trackdays, from all the events I have been to. I have tracked mine since the factory warranty expired in 2014. Even the N54, a non-M engine, hold up pretty good if you are not an idiot with it. After all, no engine is gonna last if you just gonna let the DME sort out all of your problems.

I gave my experience with VTT and he can make his own decisions on whether to buy them or not. I didnt deceive him with my responce and no one ever covers labor on aftermarket failures no matter what part is is you bought. Turbos are not isolated with this so I'm not sure why anyone would expect them to cover that. If you want cheap labor do it yourself or buy a different platform.

As for the engines going. Bmws tend to blow more than others when pushing power in the 600+ range. I'm not talking about stock cars, although the n55s do have rod bearing issues but that's probably from tunes. Bmws are great cars and last a long time when stock but pushing the limits bends the rods in the n54 engines. 500hp is low and probably won't blow an engine, but if it's truly just a track only car you will always want more power.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by buster84

I gave my experience with VTT and he can make his own decisions on whether to buy them or not. I didnt deceive him with my responce and no one ever covers labor on aftermarket failures no matter what part is is you bought. Turbos are not isolated with this so I'm not sure why anyone would expect them to cover that. If you want cheap labor do it yourself or buy a different platform.

As for the engines going. Bmws tend to blow more than others when pushing power in the 600+ range. I'm not talking about stock cars, although the n55s do have rod bearing issues but that's probably from tunes. Bmws are great cars and last a long time when stock but pushing the limits bends the rods in the n54 engines. 500hp is low and probably won't blow an engine, but if it's truly just a track only car you will always want more power.

If you want cheap labor do it yourself or buy a different platform.
or you know, buy a proper turbo and get it done right the first time.

Bmws tend to blow more than others when pushing power in the 600+ range.
I would like to know any platform that can do +600whp with a stock 3.0L engine block and with any sort of reliability. N54 has gotten so cheap and accessible these days, everyone is expecting +500whp out of only $1000 worth of mods.