N54 335i Long Crank

Kam187 · 10-11-2016, 10:39 AM

Hi guys,

Need some help to identify a long crank issue.

Car starts first time from cold (i.e. Left over night) but after its been driven and left for a few hours the car sometimes has a long crank (3-4 secs). It's more noticeable when outside air temp is low.

It's recently had a new HPFP so I'm ruling that out. It had 6 new coils last year and new plugs 2 years ago. There is no misfire at high rpm and no warning lights.

I'm guessing I've got a leaking injector but before I remove them all and get them cleaned and refurbed, is there anything else I should investigate first.

Car details are:

2006 e90 335i Sport
88k miles
JB4
AR Design DP's
ETS FMIC
AFE Stage 2 Intake

AM330i · 10-11-2016, 12:20 PM

You can pull the spark plugs and see what ones are wet and smell like gas, that will tell you what one is leaking if any. Don't bother trying to clean and or refurb, it most likely will not cure the problem. If it has never had injectors you may want to consider replacing them all with new updated index 12 injectors. Don't mix index 12 with anything less than index 11 injectors. They also should be coded after they are replaced. It will make the engine run smoother if they are correctly coded.

expressfish · 10-11-2016, 06:30 PM

had the same issue, ended up being the crank position sensor

bigdaddyaaron · 10-12-2016, 08:06 AM

You should actually be able to smell which coil pack(s) smells like gas; I could on mine.

u's2drift · 10-12-2016, 08:36 AM

I say before you start ripping your car apart looking for a ghost, start with the basics. Normally I'd say spark and gas, but I recently had the same issue. My car sat for 10 months after getting a Wrangler, charged the battery and started having slow cranks. That stopped after a week. You have 50 modules that are sleep and have to wake up from inserting key and pushing to start, weak battery, slow to wake up modules can cause that issue. It is cold and a lot of cars have issues starting. I'd check your battery, maybe insert the key and wait a few seconds before starting and see what happens. Normally with spark plugs, coils and/or injectors you'll have a misfire and/or codes.

DaZuc · 10-12-2016, 10:47 AM

How do you start the car?

If I just jump in a try to start the crank takes a little longer.

If I turn the ignition on first then start (let fuel pumps prime) it jumps on real quick.

Kam187 · 10-12-2016, 11:48 AM

Car had a new battery two years ago so don't think its that.

I normally jump in and start straight away. Never had a problem in the 3 years I've owned it.

I'm going to do the spark plug anyway so will see if one is wet.

temelj · 05-17-2017, 01:51 AM

Hi,

I'd like to jump in this discussion please with my findings of a long crank that i'm experiencing on cold start:

Basically over the course of the year I've had long cranks on cold start.
Battery was replaced about 4-5 months ago with an AGM type.
Replaced all 6 Spark Plugs & the 2 Ignition coils. The outcome is that I'm no longer receiving error codes on cylinder 3 and no engine light comes on (including limp mode) under heavy acceleration.
I have replaced the Fuel Filter / Regulator together with the spark plugs and coils.

I'm left with the exact same long crank on cold startup. It usually only happens in the morning at home before going to work. Going home 8/9 hours later the car cranks much faster.

I am puzzled by this behaviour as there are no error codes in the diagnostics logs and I am hesitant to replace things like:

fuel pump
high pressure fuel pump
fuel injectors

If I had issues related to fuel supply, my car would throw all sorts of errors before I even hit 18psi of boost and 140km/h.

I am not running any different tune to what I've already been running for over 2-3 years. (The COBB Stage2+ tune).

Thanks in advance.

Antetokounmpo · 05-17-2017, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temelj

Hi,

I'd like to jump in this discussion please with my findings of a long crank that i'm experiencing on cold start:

Basically over the course of the year I've had long cranks on cold start.
Battery was replaced about 4-5 months ago with an AGM type.
Replaced all 6 Spark Plugs & the 2 Ignition coils. The outcome is that I'm no longer receiving error codes on cylinder 3 and no engine light comes on (including limp mode) under heavy acceleration.
I have replaced the Fuel Filter / Regulator together with the spark plugs and coils.

I'm left with the exact same long crank on cold startup. It usually only happens in the morning at home before going to work. Going home 8/9 hours later the car cranks much faster.

I am puzzled by this behaviour as there are no error codes in the diagnostics logs and I am hesitant to replace things like:

fuel pump
high pressure fuel pump
fuel injectors

If I had issues related to fuel supply, my car would throw all sorts of errors before I even hit 18psi of boost and 140km/h.

I am not running any different tune to what I've already been running for over 2-3 years. (The COBB Stage2+ tune).

Thanks in advance.

Definitely a leaky injector. Had the exact same problem about 3 years ago. Have you smelled your plugs after letting it sit for a few hours?

temelj · 05-17-2017, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harambe

Definitely a leaky injector. Had the exact same problem about 3 years ago. Have you smelled your plugs after letting it sit for a few hours?

Hi,

thanks for your feedback. I'm curious - an Injector clean would identify any issues with injectors right?

Would it fix the problem or would it identify the faulty injector which I will need to replace then regardless of a clean?

To be honest, I haven't smelled my plugs. And if I smelled them now, i wouldn't know which one was where after I replaced them

Here is a graph of one of the startups HPFP, LPFP and Load requested (0 at the start before I pushed the start engine button)

LPFP
http://datazap.me/u/temelj/cold-start-1?log=0&data=1-18
HPFP
http://datazap.me/u/temelj/cold-start-1?log=0&data=1-16

questionmark · 12-17-2018, 07:28 AM

Has anyone resolved this longer crank issue?

Recently my car started cranking longer than usual. Now it cranks for 2-3 seconds till start, basically this happens after long inactivity, e.g. in the morning. Currently, it's a snowy season here and colder outside, but not the first time and none of the issues were before.

It's '07 BMW 335i with 214kms (~134mls) very well maintained.
It has MHD Stage2+ with bigger IC, catless DP, CP, BMW OCC, RB PCV valve, etc. Runs smoothly with no issues even under the heavy acceleration.
It has BMW OEM index 12 injectors, ~2000kms since new, so leaking injectors couldn't be an issue.
DELPHI M4 coils and BOSCH sparks have ~5000kms since new.
Replaced MOSFETs on DME.
BMW OEM AGM battery in good condition.

Cranking seems easy but just takes longer than usual.
What failing part this longer crank could be related?
HPFP? LPFP? Fuel pressure sensor or some fuel pressure regulator/valve?

Any clever thoughts or sharing the same experience will be appreciated.

WilliamFrear831 · 04-27-2020, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by questionmark

Has anyone resolved this longer crank issue?

Recently my car started cranking longer than usual. Now it cranks for 2-3 seconds till start, basically this happens after long inactivity, e.g. in the morning. Currently, it's a snowy season here and colder outside, but not the first time and none of the issues were before.

It's '07 BMW 335i with 214kms (~134mls) very well maintained.
It has MHD Stage2+ with bigger IC, catless DP, CP, BMW OCC, RB PCV valve, etc. Runs smoothly with no issues even under the heavy acceleration.
It has BMW OEM index 12 injectors, ~2000kms since new, so leaking injectors couldn't be an issue.
DELPHI M4 coils and BOSCH sparks have ~5000kms since new.
Replaced MOSFETs on DME.
BMW OEM AGM battery in good condition.

Cranking seems easy but just takes longer than usual.
What failing part this longer crank could be related?
HPFP? LPFP? Fuel pressure sensor or some fuel pressure regulator/valve?

Any clever thoughts or sharing the same experience will be appreciated.

I'm having same issue!

alpnwss · 04-27-2020, 08:02 PM

I had the same issue on warm restarts.
I changed a couple leaking injectors and the problem went away. I don't buy the "Can't mix injectors" spiel. If you have leaking ones right now, you have 'different injectors'. Tons of people mix with no consequence.
Replace as needed from FCPEuro, and if you find yourself with a little extra cash, replace whatever you have left.
I also got much better mileage after replacing them. Will definitely pay for themselves in the long run.
Edit: If you can, log your fuel trims and see if anything is whacky.

Boosted12a · 04-28-2020, 02:39 AM

I had the same solution. I had the long cranking after sitting an hour or so. Check injectors, 5 of em were leaking so I replaced all 6. Used pro tools app to code the injectors. Runs great!

mweisdorfer · 04-28-2020, 08:56 AM

What's the health of your battery & starter?

Warishuku · 04-28-2020, 11:00 AM

Guys there is not an unique root cause for a long crank issue, it could be any part of the fuel system (LPFP, sensors, HPFP, inyectores, leaky lines, etc.) or even some electrical problem could cause a long crank.

In order to correctly identify or at least have a better idea of the root cause of your problem you need to take some logs (MHD monitor works well) and check for fuel pressure in the whole system, check the behaviour of the pumps, check codes, etc.

10-11-2016, 10:39 AM	#1
Kam187 Private First Class 15 Rep 102 Posts Drives: BMW 335i M Sport Individual Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Solihull iTrader: (0)	N54 335i Long Crank Hi guys, Need some help to identify a long crank issue. Car starts first time from cold (i.e. Left over night) but after its been driven and left for a few hours the car sometimes has a long crank (3-4 secs). It's more noticeable when outside air temp is low. It's recently had a new HPFP so I'm ruling that out. It had 6 new coils last year and new plugs 2 years ago. There is no misfire at high rpm and no warning lights. I'm guessing I've got a leaking injector but before I remove them all and get them cleaned and refurbed, is there anything else I should investigate first. Car details are: 2006 e90 335i Sport 88k miles JB4 AR Design DP's ETS FMIC AFE Stage 2 Intake __________________ BMW 335i M Sport 6MT Individual
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10-11-2016, 12:20 PM	#2
AM330i First Lieutenant 90 Rep 386 Posts Drives: 08 535xi 11 328xi Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Rochester, NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M440 [0.00]	You can pull the spark plugs and see what ones are wet and smell like gas, that will tell you what one is leaking if any. Don't bother trying to clean and or refurb, it most likely will not cure the problem. If it has never had injectors you may want to consider replacing them all with new updated index 12 injectors. Don't mix index 12 with anything less than index 11 injectors. They also should be coded after they are replaced. It will make the engine run smoother if they are correctly coded.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-11-2016, 06:30 PM	#3
expressfish Private First Class 39 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 07 E92 335I Monaco Blau Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	had the same issue, ended up being the crank position sensor
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10-12-2016, 08:06 AM	#4
bigdaddyaaron Private First Class 75 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 335i e90 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: maryland iTrader: (0)	You should actually be able to smell which coil pack(s) smells like gas; I could on mine.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-12-2016, 08:36 AM	#5
u's2drift Private 9 Rep 67 Posts Drives: Stock 07 335xi Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Somersworth nh iTrader: (1)	I say before you start ripping your car apart looking for a ghost, start with the basics. Normally I'd say spark and gas, but I recently had the same issue. My car sat for 10 months after getting a Wrangler, charged the battery and started having slow cranks. That stopped after a week. You have 50 modules that are sleep and have to wake up from inserting key and pushing to start, weak battery, slow to wake up modules can cause that issue. It is cold and a lot of cars have issues starting. I'd check your battery, maybe insert the key and wait a few seconds before starting and see what happens. Normally with spark plugs, coils and/or injectors you'll have a misfire and/or codes.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-12-2016, 10:47 AM	#6
DaZuc Captain 206 Rep 749 Posts Drives: 335i xDrive Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: NY iTrader: (10) Garage List 09 BMW 335i xDrive [10.00]	How do you start the car? If I just jump in a try to start the crank takes a little longer. If I turn the ignition on first then start (let fuel pumps prime) it jumps on real quick.
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10-12-2016, 11:48 AM	#7
Kam187 Private First Class 15 Rep 102 Posts Drives: BMW 335i M Sport Individual Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Solihull iTrader: (0)	Car had a new battery two years ago so don't think its that. I normally jump in and start straight away. Never had a problem in the 3 years I've owned it. I'm going to do the spark plug anyway so will see if one is wet. __________________ BMW 335i M Sport 6MT Individual
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-17-2017, 01:51 AM	#8
temelj Enlisted Member 5 Rep 32 Posts Drives: E92 335i M '08 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Brisbane, Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E92 335 M [0.00]	long crank Hi, I'd like to jump in this discussion please with my findings of a long crank that i'm experiencing on cold start: Basically over the course of the year I've had long cranks on cold start. Battery was replaced about 4-5 months ago with an AGM type. Replaced all 6 Spark Plugs & the 2 Ignition coils. The outcome is that I'm no longer receiving error codes on cylinder 3 and no engine light comes on (including limp mode) under heavy acceleration. I have replaced the Fuel Filter / Regulator together with the spark plugs and coils. I'm left with the exact same long crank on cold startup. It usually only happens in the morning at home before going to work. Going home 8/9 hours later the car cranks much faster. I am puzzled by this behaviour as there are no error codes in the diagnostics logs and I am hesitant to replace things like: fuel pump high pressure fuel pump fuel injectors If I had issues related to fuel supply, my car would throw all sorts of errors before I even hit 18psi of boost and 140km/h. I am not running any different tune to what I've already been running for over 2-3 years. (The COBB Stage2+ tune). Thanks in advance.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-17-2018, 07:28 AM	#11
questionmark Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: E30/E32/E36/E82/E85/E91/E93 Join Date: May 2017 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	Has anyone resolved this longer crank issue? Recently my car started cranking longer than usual. Now it cranks for 2-3 seconds till start, basically this happens after long inactivity, e.g. in the morning. Currently, it's a snowy season here and colder outside, but not the first time and none of the issues were before. It's '07 BMW 335i with 214kms (~134mls) very well maintained. It has MHD Stage2+ with bigger IC, catless DP, CP, BMW OCC, RB PCV valve, etc. Runs smoothly with no issues even under the heavy acceleration. It has BMW OEM index 12 injectors, ~2000kms since new, so leaking injectors couldn't be an issue. DELPHI M4 coils and BOSCH sparks have ~5000kms since new. Replaced MOSFETs on DME. BMW OEM AGM battery in good condition. Cranking seems easy but just takes longer than usual. What failing part this longer crank could be related? HPFP? LPFP? Fuel pressure sensor or some fuel pressure regulator/valve? Any clever thoughts or sharing the same experience will be appreciated.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-27-2020, 08:02 PM	#13
alpnwss Private First Class 32 Rep 141 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 BMW 335is Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: San Diego, CA/Corvallis, OR iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 BMW X3 35i [0.00] 2013 BMW 335is [0.00]	I had the same issue on warm restarts. I changed a couple leaking injectors and the problem went away. I don't buy the "Can't mix injectors" spiel. If you have leaking ones right now, you have 'different injectors'. Tons of people mix with no consequence. Replace as needed from FCPEuro, and if you find yourself with a little extra cash, replace whatever you have left. I also got much better mileage after replacing them. Will definitely pay for themselves in the long run. Edit: If you can, log your fuel trims and see if anything is whacky. __________________ 2013 E92 335is-Alpenweiss HK Sound-Premium-Nav DCI-VRSF CP-VRSF DPs-RBTurbo OEM Inlets-Wagner EVO I FMIC
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04-28-2020, 02:39 AM	#14
Boosted12a Second Lieutenant 69 Rep 210 Posts Drives: BMW 335i x Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Va iTrader: (0)	I had the same solution. I had the long cranking after sitting an hour or so. Check injectors, 5 of em were leaking so I replaced all 6. Used pro tools app to code the injectors. Runs great!
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04-28-2020, 08:56 AM	#15
mweisdorfer Major General 1934 Rep 6,965 Posts Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Holly, MI iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW E90 335i [0.00] 2008 bmw x5 [0.00]	What's the health of your battery & starter?
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04-28-2020, 11:00 AM	#16
Warishuku New Member 12 Rep 21 Posts Drives: BMW 335i E92 08 Nissan 350Z 03 Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Querétaro, México iTrader: (0)	Guys there is not an unique root cause for a long crank issue, it could be any part of the fuel system (LPFP, sensors, HPFP, inyectores, leaky lines, etc.) or even some electrical problem could cause a long crank. In order to correctly identify or at least have a better idea of the root cause of your problem you need to take some logs (MHD monitor works well) and check for fuel pressure in the whole system, check the behaviour of the pumps, check codes, etc.
	Appreciate 0 Quote