[baron95]

Originally Posted by nickyjimz

Well the M2 I ordered back in November was delivered. Just spent about two hours at the dealership looking at it and I took it for a decent test drive around town and up and down the highway with moderate vigor given the two miles on the odometer. I decided not to buy it, here’s what I thought though:

Exterior:
The car is stunning, looks amazing in person. If you like a long hood short deck classic rear drive coupe shape, this car hits all the right notes. The hips and width are gorgeous. It’s like a Camaro decided to grow up, how the gym, and put on a well tailored suit. It’s shorter than an actual Camaro, and far more practical and mature looking. Looks every bit of the asking price too. A
Modern, muscular yet tastefully aggressive sports sedan. Really looks so much better in person.

Interior:
Also wonderful. Looks and feels nicer and more modern than I expected.
Materials a nice to touch, and the screen integrate better into the experience once you’re behind the wheel than I expected. Really a nice nice place to be. I’m 6’1” and the driver seat (non-carbon buckets) are supportive but not nearly as tight as some super aggressive sports seats. The cockpit is also comfortable while simultaneously catering to the driver. Ergonomics are superior to other sports cars I’ve owned.

Driving experience:
Here’s where things fell apart. Nothing was bad per se, just numb. The shifter is bad. It’s numb, 1st gear is weird, and it didn’t make me feel telepathically connected to the driving experience the way some of the better sticks I’ve had in the past. The [...]

Well….I traded my 2018 Camaro SS1LE manual for the G87 and I’m doing my first track day with it as we speak.

I’m running comparable lap times to the 1LE (1/2 sec behind) in similar track conditions. And that is with stock MPS4S that are both narrower and less grippy than the Camaro 1LE GYSC3 tires.

Steering is totally fine. Not sure why people continue to harp on it - some of it has to be confirmation bias from reading the click-bait press reviews. Manual transmission is in fact slower and less direct/pleasing than the Tremec - I thing BMW’s unfortunately are better with the autos.

The electronics are a pain to set up for track on the G87 - that’s my only criticism. That M2 button should be configurable to put the car in track mode. It’s brain dead to have to go through 2 menus and 2 confirmation presses to be setup for track. Then you have to reactivate the display where I keep my track res temp/pressures and mode displays.

Also M2 is much more of a handful on track than the 1LE - the rear is moving ALL the time. Whoever called this car dull is making stuff up.

The M2 is everything you said on the street - superb. And near SS1LE levels on track. That is really hard to pull off - but BMW did it.

I’m sure with better tires and camber I can beat the 1LE lap times. But honestly, I’ll prob just leave good enough alone. Car is fantastic for me - but I respect your decision. Hope you find a car that suits you more.

[M2siast]

You ordered one without driving it first, or you didn’t like the new car? I like that you were able to walk away and not commit to a car you didn’t like. That’s good.

What did you get instead of the M2?

[abrandonment]

I ordered mine without ever having driven one. (Still haven't)

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by robopp

Cough…911…cough

Cough...$120,000...cough

[FryCookOnVenus]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

To me, and jusy my opinion, it seems the OP is looking for support/approval for his/her decision.

As to not get involved in what could wind up a shit-show, I am not going to contribute...

First of all, despite your pledge not to, you DID contribute. And, it feels like you're projecting a lot onto the OP. Nothing he wrote struck me as approval-seeking and I'm curious what words you read that make you think otherwise.

What I saw was a review that was mostly full of praise and a fairly dispassionate explanation of how the car made him feel. It was his honest opinion - nothing more, nothing less.

It's exactly what I want to read, especially as I find myself in a similar boat - I have a deposit down and an allocation coming shortly, but have been having doubts if it's actually the best car for my needs.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by baron95

Steering is totally fine. Not sure why people continue to harp on it - some of it has to be confirmation bias from reading the click-bait press reviews. Manual transmission is in fact slower and less direct/pleasing than the Tremec - I thing BMW’s unfortunately are better with the autos.

The electronics are a pain to set up for track on the G87 - that’s my only criticism. That M2 button should be configurable to put the car in track mode. It’s brain dead to have to go through 2 menus and 2 confirmation presses to be setup for track. Then you have to reactivate the display where I keep my track res temp/pressures and mode displays.

I agree with these points. For daily & spirited driving there is absolutely nothing wrong with the steering. The car goes exactly where you want it to go & gives plenty of feedback. Most of the negative comments about the steering seem to just parrot what youtube reviewers say.

The settings and various screens can be annoying.

[ourlee]

My test drive was the same. It’s super comfy.

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

Just gotta test drive some cars and figure out what you want.
I've driven a Supra, M2 (new and old, DCT and manual), Integra Type S, Civic Type R, Cayman S, GR86, and they all have their merits. The Type R surprised me (in a bad way) because I've wanted one for so long; after my test drive I just didn't want one anymore. For me, it's the M2 for the balance of things. OP should definitely drive a few cars and see what feels most "worth it" to you.

Good luck in your search!

Can you elaborate more on the differences you felt between the M2 and the GR86 and Cayman S? I have a lot of seat time in the GT86 and loved that car despite the crappy engine, but haven’t driven the new M2 yet. I worried it may be less connected feeling than the GR86 and Cayman. Also, which generation Cayman S did you drive? I only have seat time in a 981

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by wknddrivr

Can you elaborate more on the differences you felt between the M2 and the GR86 and Cayman S? I have a lot of seat time in the GT86 and loved that car despite the crappy engine, but haven’t driven the new M2 yet. I worried it may be less connected feeling than the GR86 and Cayman. Also, which generation Cayman S did you drive? I only have seat time in a 981

The 2022 GR86 felt loose and light, as it should. The steering was a bit sloppy but with more feedback than the G87 M2. It felt the most "fun" because it just didn't feel like a serious car. Obviously underpowered compared to the other two, but it was fun to take it up to more of it's "potential" on the road. Less grippy/poised compared to the other two, I could feel it getting nervous as I took it around a roundabout. Noticeable rev hang which was a distraction.

The 2018 Cayman S (718) was so direct in its steering feel compared to the other two, and the car would literally go right where I wanted it to within the lane without any delay. There was more feedback through the wheel compared to the GR86. The shifter feel was much better; it would "snick" neatly into place. Clutch was light, but the engagement point was very predictable. When the sport exhaust was off, it was very tolerable, but that's the word. With the exhaust open and sport mode on, my brain was done after about 10 minutes. Overall a very fun car if it wasn't my daily driver, but living with that noise would get old after a while. I would never order a Porsche without PASM; the difference between modes was significant, very impressive. Acceleration hit after around 4k RPM or so, felt like a Honda VTEC or something with how it got exciting at that point. Prodigious grip and it got fun after 70mph or so. This model had PASM, 20" wheels, and sport exhaust.

The M2 I drove was a manual model, regular sport seats, and carbon roof. The steering feel was barely there but precise at the same time, in the sense that I didn't get much feedback beyond what the chassis was giving me through the seat. There was more body roll vs the Cayman but less than than the GR86. And my oh my the amount of grip! It felt like it had more lateral grip than the Cayman, but you can totally feel how the body rotates differently. Also, the body roll compared to the Cayman almost made it more fun, like you were going faster in the corners while actually still going the same speed. The shifter is rubbery compared to the other two but still very fun to drive. It felt more like a GT car to me, but maintained a nice level of engagement. Certainly the best sounding car of the three. The interior was nicer than the Porsche, but less intuitive given the lack of physical controls.

The frustrating point to me was what felt like an inconsistent/unpredictable clutch engagement point. I was able to get in the GR86, Cayman, Type R, and Type S and just go. With the M2 I was guessing and couldn't get comfortable the entire test drive. It's to the point where I'm looking exploring clutch replacement kits. I've told myself I'll get used to it, or at least try for the first two months, but it was impossible for me to be smooth with it. Obviously some drivers here may contest that fact, and it's likely that they have more experience than I do. At the very least, I'll be putting in a clutch stop and go from there.

I enjoyed driving the M2 most, followed by the Porsche, then the GR86, but the only reason I liked the Porsche more than the 86 is because of the ridiculous amount of grip it had. If I had to live with it, I'd choose the M2, then the GR86, then the Cayman. The latter is out because of the noise which is quite silly to me, but it's how I felt. I also feel like I blend a bit better with the M2 compared to the Porsche, which aligns better with my style.

TLDR: Porsche handles better and has a better shifter/clutch, but the M2 is the overall better package for a daily driver

[TheLegend]

I was finally able to test drive a g87 M2. I agree with every point of your test drive. Just shows how important it is to test drive a vehicle you are interested in before purchasing.

I've test driven a g80 M3 manual, Supra Manual, GR86 manual, 992 PDK, 996 Carrera manual, 997 Carrera S manual, 718 GT4 manual, FL5 Type R, and FK8 Type R now.

I actually felt a lot better about my G87 test drive than the M3 manual. It felt more nimble and agile. Somehow even the manual felt better I don't know if if I'm getting more use to it. BMW have never been the best but I care less about the shift quality than clutch engagement and rev hang. I did feel like towards the end of the test drive I was getting the hang of the g87 manual and was able to bang out the 1-2 shift smoothly. I think perhaps with more time I could get use to it.

Unfortunately most cars these days feel numb and isolated. You have to go like 80mph before you start feeling any sense of speed. Even the 992 Carrera PDK I test drove felt like that. You really have to get a GT product if you want that visceral, connected, and edgy feel. I really enjoyed my 996 and 997 test drives because you feel connected with the car and it's got great steering. The rear engine dynamics in the older cars makes it fun even on the streets. The older 911 you feel fast even though your just going speed limit. the 996/997 shifters are really sloppy feeling but the clutch engagement and other aspects of the manual is very intuitive so it made me feel really connected to the car.

I really enjoyed the GR86 and I think price you can't beat in terms of driving engagement and fun.

I came out of the FL5 Type R test drive feeling differently. I felt like I was having a blast driving this on the street. The manual is just second nature and before I knew it I was rev matching and heel toeing without any issue.

I'm back to seriously considering the g87 M2, but I can't help the feeling that I had more fun with the FL5 Type R and it's a car that cost way less. I am a JDM fanboy at heart though, I still have my STI.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by TheLegend

I'm back to seriously considering the g87 M2, but I can't help the feeling that I had more fun with the FL5 Type R and it's a car that cost way less. I am a JDM fanboy at heart though, I still have my STI.

If you like the FL5 enough, I'd save $20k and go for that. Spend $280 on the Type S suspension module and call it good.

I realized I really like the premium interior and sunroof the M2 has to offer (I drive with my sunroof open any day that's nice enough and would really miss it), following my test drive of the Type R.

[TheLegend]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

If you like the FL5 enough, I'd save $20k and go for that. Spend $280 on the Type S suspension module and call it good.

I realized I really like the premium interior and sunroof the M2 has to offer (I drive with my sunroof open any day that's nice enough and would really miss it), following my test drive of the Type R.

I feel like the reason why I like the type R is it reminds me of my sti which is also a hatchback, so I’m waiting to get it back after over a year and a half in the shop. I’m actually hunting for a 996/997 at the moment.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by TheLegend

I feel like the reason why I like the type R is it reminds me of my sti which is also a hatchback, so I’m waiting to get it back after over a year and a half in the shop. I’m actually hunting for a 996/997 at the moment.

997.2 is a dream car if you can snag one! Good luck with your search, and hopefully something happens with that Subie sooner rather than later. A year and a half is just goofy to wait on service (not implying your fault here)

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

The 2022 GR86 felt loose and light, as it should. The steering was a bit sloppy but with more feedback than the G87 M2. It felt the most "fun" because it just didn't feel like a serious car. Obviously underpowered compared to the other two, but it was fun to take it up to more of it's "potential" on the road. Less grippy/poised compared to the other two, I could feel it getting nervous as I took it around a roundabout. Noticeable rev hang which was a distraction.

The 2018 Cayman S (718) was so direct in its steering feel compared to the other two, and the car would literally go right where I wanted it to within the lane without any delay. There was more feedback through the wheel compared to the GR86. The shifter feel was much better; it would "snick" neatly into place. Clutch was light, but the engagement point was very predictable. When the sport exhaust was off, it was very tolerable, but that's the word. With the exhaust open and sport mode on, my brain was done after about 10 minutes. Overall a very fun car if it wasn't my daily driver, but living with that noise would get old after a while. I would never order a Porsche without PASM; the difference between modes was significant, very impressive. Acceleration hit after around 4k RPM or so, felt like a Honda VTEC or something with how it got exciting at that point. Prodigious grip and it got fun after 70mph or so. This model had PASM, 20" wheels, and sport exhaust.

The M2 I drove was a manual model, regular sport seats, and carbon roof. The steering feel was barely there but precise at the same time, in [...]

Thank you! I very much appreciate how much detail you provided and how much thought you put into your response. You hit on many of the points I was interested in learning about. My experience with the last generation of all these cars is very similar, except the F87 had a crap interior. I now like the G87 interior the best of the 3.

I drove a 2015 BRZ for about a year, and it had the same rev hang that you experienced with the GR86 and very similar handling characteristics. So easy to get a bit of slip if you wanted to, at very low speeds just making it a fun car that never felt too serious or pretentious. The one major thing that puts me off on the GR86 is depreciation…sure it’s the cheapest of the bunch, but 5 years down the road, I’ll likely lose a lot more on it than buying a 981 now and hanging onto it for 5 years even though it’s more expensive. Same with the G87 since warranty covers everything for first few years so it’s just basic maintenance and depreciation

With the Porsche, I’m considering a 981 base or S, or a 718 GTS 4.0, because that flat 6 just feels and sounds amazing. I really appreciated the shift feel and feedback in the steering in the 981.

Contrary to popular opinion, I absolutely love the style of the G87. To me it seems muscular and hunkered down with those great fender flares. The interior is amazing. And I’ve just always loved BMW. I like the idea of buying a manual BMW new to vote with my wallet and tell BMW we want more cars like this. But my concern is the numb steering. I’ll have to go for a test drive and see for myself if that bothers me. I do want something with some edge, and it wouldn’t really be a daily for me. More of a weekend fun car and for shorter trips. Based on your description it may be the perfect option for me, although I think I’d go for the carbon bucket seats to make it feel a bit more special.

I’ve got a 2022 Mercedes E450 do the long haul drives, although I’m growing ever so frustrated and seriously consider dumping it for the G60 540i in the near future.

Right now my fun car is an E36 M3/4/5 and I absolutely love it…have had it for 7 years and the thought of getting rid of it gives me pause. But it’s way less composed and connected compared to the BRZ I used to drive, and I don’t feel very safe driving it around town or on interstates. I take it out once or twice a week on country roads where it truly shines, but if I had something more modern I’d feel a lot more comfortable with the added safety and I’d get way more usage out of a GR86/Cayman/G87. Plus I think all of them will have more edge than the E36 M3. Ultimately, I’d have a 3 car garage - long distance modern cruiser (G60 540i), old school weekend toy for nostalgia (E36 M3/4/5), and a modern sports car with a bit of edge for most driving except longer trips (GR86/G87/Cayman)

[tewai]

Originally Posted by DSTR

"Lovely cruiser" lol. Truly driven with capability on display=



Most dont use 40% of what the car offers to begin with. Interesting review by the OP. City and 'freeway' with no real chance to explore power, handling and braking at all. With rev limits with break-in and brakes needing to be properly brought in too many compromises to evaluate.

Here is a US based review showing how capable given weight etc the M2 has. OP should reconsider lol

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...n-test-review/

Have you noticed that wind noise over like 180km/h? I've noticed it in alot of high speed M2 G87 videos and it scares me a bit as I'd like to order M2...

[baj_baj]

It's always important to test drive cars... If the steering was good, I would find the M2 a perfect car for me, blending sports car and daily. It has just enough engagement to make driving to work fun, but all the comfort of a luxury car making it easy for the daily duty.
If you look at something like a Cayman, that's a different world, the car feels like a 15 year old tin can, but drives amazing... It's a great weekend car.

Choose your poison...

[jasheaer]

Its good to hear some of my thoughts about the F80 manual transmission I drove a couple years ago confirmed by other enthusiasts. I have driven manual transmission sport cars my whole life (most being tremec 6 speeds) and when I hopped into the F80 for a test drive I was soooo disappointed with the clutch take up and the shifter... I thought I was maybe just going soft but now think it may be BMWs way of pushing crazy American's to autos

I love the ZF8 so much that it was actually a selling point when I sold my diesel truck and swapped to a TRX...

I'm over in Germany for the next couple of years and trying to decide what souvenir I'm bringing home and the M2 is currently right at the top of the list with the cayman GTS 4.0 among other things. If I end up with an M2 it will likely be with the ZF8 based on feedback I keep reading...

Jay

[toprarnen]

It's worth driving to see for yourself, if at all possible. For me, a sloppy manual that can be fixed aftermarket (clutch stop, $10; ultimate clutch pedal, $300; rogue short shifter kit, $450) is better than no manual, and while I agree that I shouldn't be spending that money on a new car, it's not bad overall compared to the actual cost of the vehicle.

Hopefully the clutch stop and potentially removing the clutch delay valve are enough for me.

And aesthetically? These are my three replies to that concern (minus the big, fat wing, I prefer a ducktail spoiler off the bootlid):

-Rocars G87 in black - YouTube video


-
-

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by baj_baj

It's always important to test drive cars... If the steering was good, I would find the M2 a perfect car for me...

I've heard the CSL update changes steering feel (one of the benefits of electric steering?) in a positive way 🤷. Definitely need to do more reading up on that one before I think of trying it on my car though

[abrandonment]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

I've heard the CSL update changes steering feel (one of the benefits of electric steering?) in a positive way 🤷. Definitely need to do more reading up on that one before I think of trying it on my car though

I think I've seen the same videos.. the question I have isn't should I try it (for $250 to fix the biggest gripe people have, I think sure.. why not) but what I want to know is how easy is it to revert.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

I think I've seen the same videos.. the question I have isn't should I try it (for $250 to fix the biggest gripe people have, I think sure.. why not) but what I want to know is how easy is it to revert.

Yes, definitely another background concern. Otherwise you're waiting 4 years to try anything that could improve the vehicle and make it more livable/driveable

[TheLegend]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

997.2 is a dream car if you can snag one! Good luck with your search, and hopefully something happens with that Subie sooner rather than later. A year and a half is just goofy to wait on service (not implying your fault here)

Lot of supply chain issues. Spent 6 months waiting for the Motec ECU, and as things were wrapping up the tuner needed hand surgery. I may have gone overboard with this build and it just kinda spiraled from the initial build and I hope it's not a nightmare to daily drive. After all that I may want something more comfortable, luxurious and refined to haul my family around hence why the M2 and Type R is not out of the running yet.