[chris55552]

First off im by no means mechanicaly inclined, not the guy to ask about tools etc and so on but im learning. Heck with these BMW's you have too or youll be broke but anyway I recently bought some jack stands from wal mart which have been fine. One day recently I put my car up on stands to do some work and as soon as I got under it, something kept telling me to get the fuck out from under it, I ignored it at first and the more I worked the more my gut was telling me to get out so I eventually listened and shut everything down for the day and went inside. The next morning I got up and walked outside and my car had fallen off the jacks and was on the ground!!! So what went wrong? I had the jack stands on level ground but dirt and the stands dug in and became unstable and eventually fell off. Since that day me and my gut feeling have been really close friends, I listen to.

Be careful out there folks, especially if your a rookie with the wrench like me.

[StradaRedlands]

Glad you're here to tell the tale!

[Efthreeoh]

Didn't read the instructions.

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Didn't read the instructions.

And got in a hurry. Never again.

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Glad you're here to tell the tale!

Thanks, cant imagine going out like that, getting crushed and legs sticking out like wizard of oz.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by chris55552

... bought some jack stands from wal mart which have been fine... The next morning I got up and walked outside and my car had fallen off the jacks and was on the ground!!!

1) Unless you can bench-press 2 tons (I can't ;-) NEVER get under a car that is NOT stable on ramps or Jack Stands. That can "Ruin your whole day".

2) Use ONLY on Level Pavement, as opposed to Gravel or Dirt.

3) Ramps are safer (& CAN be used on level, dry dirt) than jack stands & although MORE expensive, are also Quicker to use.

4) Belt AND Suspenders approach: Jack at front-center, or Rear-Center Jacking points, & place Jack Stands. Leave Jack in place (if possible) for added stability, particularly if you must work on dirt.

5) NEVER (my personal concept) get under a vehicle with ALL FOUR wheels off ground. NEVER use 4 Jack Stands, even on pavement: concrete or asphalt.

6) I use Ramps (2 pairs) to work under a level car to change AT Fluid/filter or Transfer Case Fluid. Drive On front ramps, then place ramp pedestals under rear wheels (or use 4 pieces of 2x10 for 6" lift under each rear tire. For added security, leave Jack under Front-Center Jacking Point.

7) Don't get distracted when setting up & testing the setup. We need all the E9x folks we can get/keep on the Forum.

8) If your are NOT familiar with the Jacking Points, please ask.
George

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

1) Unless you can bench-press 2 tons (I can't ;-) NEVER get under a car that is NOT stable on ramps or Jack Stands. That can "Ruin your whole day".

2) Use ONLY on Level Pavement, as opposed to Gravel or Dirt.

3) Ramps are safer (& CAN be used on level, dry dirt) than jack stands & although MORE expensive, are also Quicker to use.

4) Belt AND Suspenders approach: Jack at front-center, or Rear-Center Jacking points, & place Jack Stands. Leave Jack in place (if possible) for added stability, particularly if you must work on dirt.

5) NEVER (my personal concept) get under a vehicle with ALL FOUR wheels off ground. NEVER use 4 Jack Stands, even on pavement: concrete or asphalt.

6) I use Ramps (2 pairs) to work under a level car to change AT Fluid/filter or Transfer Case Fluid. Drive On front ramps, then place ramp pedestals under rear wheels (or use 4 pieces of 2x10 for 6" lift under each rear tire. For added security, leave Jack under Front-Center Jacking Point.

7) Don't get distracted when setting up & testing the setup. We need all the E9x folks we can get/keep on the Forum.

8) If your are NOT familiar with the Jacking Points, please ask.
George

agreed, ive since moved to ramps x 4 so that all 4 wheels are up, stable and safe with the car secured with E brake and in gear. Cheated death once and learned my lesson.

[Bims328i]

Bro glad you were not under it. Always kind of a slow process but at the minimum you MUST use something like 3/4" plywood squares for the stands as the dirt is obviously not stable enough.

Even using a runner board and a few 1/4" plywood cutouts to create a level underlay for the floor jack runner which should be something like 3/4" or 5150 6" slat siding cut long ways. Ideally use a level to check your runner is not on an incline. You also do not want it to buckle so the 1/4" are placed in areas that need more height, so the runner is better supported.

The boards there at the back are to level out the slope behind the car. The stands are also nice because they have the locking keys.

[lowrydr310]

I trust jack stands over ramps. I have a pair of plastic Rhino Ramps and I used them once for an oil change. Never again. Easier to jack the car from the front or rear jack point and lower on jack stands, than to drive up onto the ramps. That one time I used the ramps the plastic was warped as soon as I drove onto it and I didn't trust it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

1) Unless you can bench-press 2 tons (I can't ;-) NEVER get under a car that is NOT stable on ramps or Jack Stands. That can "Ruin your whole day".

2) Use ONLY on Level Pavement, as opposed to Gravel or Dirt.

3) Ramps are safer (& CAN be used on level, dry dirt) than jack stands & although MORE expensive, are also Quicker to use.

4) Belt AND Suspenders approach: Jack at front-center, or Rear-Center Jacking points, & place Jack Stands. Leave Jack in place (if possible) for added stability, particularly if you must work on dirt.

5) NEVER (my personal concept) get under a vehicle with ALL FOUR wheels off ground. NEVER use 4 Jack Stands, even on pavement: concrete or asphalt.

6) I use Ramps (2 pairs) to work under a level car to change AT Fluid/filter or Transfer Case Fluid. Drive On front ramps, then place ramp pedestals under rear wheels (or use 4 pieces of 2x10 for 6" lift under each rear tire. For added security, leave Jack under Front-Center Jacking Point.

7) Don't get distracted when setting up & testing the setup. We need all the E9x folks we can get/keep on the Forum.

8) If your are NOT familiar with the Jacking Points, please ask.
George

George, I have to completely disagree with point 5.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

George, I have to completely disagree with point 5.

You have a lift.

[Grease23]

Some comments on George's comments:

3. I recommend never using ramps on dirt. It against the instructions for most ramps and the 'footprint' of the ramps is not wide; it is typically narrow verticals of plastic (or metal) that can dig into soil. Narrow edges imbed themselves more readily in soft surfaces. (This is why knives and axes work. Also why car crashes that involve trees or poles are so deadly.) Cement or asphalt is the way to go.

5. Not really practical for everything. If you really want your car level to warm up and set ATF levels, and you don't have a fancy lift in your garage, this is something you pretty much have to do.

6. No!!! This is absolutely contrary to the instructions, for starters. The weight ratings of ramps assume back (or front) of the car is angled downward with more weight on the tires not on the ramps. I have four ramps, and I also thought this would be a good idea. Then I noticed the product warning against it and gave it some thought and realized why it isn't recommended.

I'll add a safety suggestion I saw on an instructional video. Once you get your vehicle raised in a way you think is OK, give it a good shove with your hip from different directions. If it is nice and stable after that, whatever prying/wrenching etc. you're going to do under it isn't going to dislodge it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

You have a lift.

Exactly, to conveniently get all 4 wheels off the ground. The lift has no less failure points than well-engineered and well-built jackstands, or the same for a floor jack. The lift has built-in locks in case of a hydraulic failure. It's made of welded steel construction. A lift is far more complicated to operate as compared to jackstands.


An E90 placed on four (4) Esco flat-top jackstands sitting on a concrete garage floor (like my lift) is no less stable than an E90 sitting on a commercial automotive lift.

Having wheels on the ground or on ramps, even when chocked, can still allow for the wheels to roll. When all four tires are off the ground, the vehicle can't roll.

Also, I'll state that most people don't really understand how a hydraulic floor jack operates, which leads to accidents. In this case the OP did not read the instructions that came with the jackstands. EVERY instruction pamphlet that comes with jackstands emphatically states to not use them on an unstable surface and to only use them on a hard surface such as concrete. Even when used on hard asphalt, the stands should be placed on wood substrate, like plywood, to spread the load evenly over the surface they sit on.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Grease23

Some comments on George's comments:

3. I recommend never using ramps on dirt. It against the instructions for most ramps and the 'footprint' of the ramps is not wide; it is typically a narrow verticals of plastic (or metal) that can dig into soil. Narrow edges imbed themselves more readily in soft surfaces. (This is why knives and axes work. Also why car crashes that involve trees or poles are so deadly.) Cement or asphalt is the way to go.

5. Not really practical for everything. If you really want your car level to warm up and set ATF levels, and you don't have a fancy lift in your garage, this is something you pretty much have to do.

6. No!!! This is absolutely contrary to the instructions, for starters. The weight ratings of ramps assume back (or front) of the car is angled downward with more weight on the tires not on the ramps. I have four ramps, and I also thought this would be a good idea. Then I noticed the product warning against it and gave it some thought and realized why it isn't recommended.

I'll add a safety suggestion I saw on an instructional video. Once you get your vehicle raised in a way you think is OK, give it a good shove with your hip from different directions. If it is nice and stable after that, whatever prying/wrenching etc. you're going to do under it isn't going to dislodge it.

Exactly the same protocol used for a lift to check for stability

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

George, I have to completely disagree with point 5.

I agree.

Car on ramps with rear on stands is unstable. There is too much potential movement from tires and compressed suspension to use those as stable lift points.

And OP, we're glad that you are safe.

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by Bims328i

Bro glad you were not under it. Always kind of a slow process but at the minimum you MUST use something like 3/4" plywood squares for the stands as the dirt is obviously not stable enough.

Even using a runner board and a few 1/4" plywood cutouts to create a level underlay for the floor jack runner which should be something like 3/4" or 5150 6" slat siding cut long ways. Ideally use a level to check your runner is not on an incline. You also do not want it to buckle so the 1/4" are placed in areas that need more height, so the runner is better supported.

The boards there at the back are to level out the slope behind the car. The stands are also nice because they have the locking keys.

Good example and thanks for sharing that.

[Bims328i]

I really don't understand the big deal. So long as you put something like 3/4" plywood base boards on your stands you're good. If you made 4 evenly cut pieces than you've done better than me.

The biggest thing that stresses me out doing this in the dirt is making sure the floor jack is rolling on the runner board as you jack it up. I always orient the wheels properly prior to jacking the car up. Also, I press inward when jacking up and ensure the wheels begin to move. Use a cloth and channel locks on the jack bar to fully control lowering down on the stands.

Before I would jack up the side then the front, but it is such a hassle in the dirt I decided to use my service ramps to get the front up.

The trick is to set your ramps then close all doors and sight from the rear sides of the car to make sure they are aligned. I do multiple checks before running up on them. Then I only have to put my runner board on the front and rear.

You can see if they are angled in by sighting down the side of the car.

Also, I use a hexagonal cut 3/4" plywood chuck between the floor jack and the jack point.

Jack the front up first so the rear is locked then do the rear. It always much less stressful when doing the rear point because it is so flat and open.

The front point always irks me because it is that little rectangle point.

Additional pre leveling was also performed prior to jacking the car up.

Use a long piece of wood and put your level on it. Then rake it to use the piece of wood to find the low and high spots.

When doing something like trans service. Place the level under the car to determine if it is fact level.

On dirt setup I had to jack the rear up a few inches more to make it fully level beforehand.

Mainly it's just a pita to do this process because it has been so fkn humid this summer.

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by Bims328i

I really don't understand the big deal. So long as you put something like 3/4" plywood base boards on your stands you're good. If you made 4 evenly cut pieces than you've done better than me.

The biggest thing that stresses me out doing this in the dirt is making sure the floor jack is rolling on the runner board as you jack it up. I always orient the wheels properly prior to jacking the car up. Also, I press inward when jacking up and ensure the wheels begin to move. Use a cloth and channel locks on the jack bar to fully control lowering down on the stands.

Before I would jack up the side then the front, but it is such a hassle in the dirt I decided to use my service ramps to get the front up.

The trick is to set your ramps then close all doors and sight from the rear sides of the car to make sure they are aligned. I do multiple checks before running up on them. Then I only have to put my runner board on the front and rear.

You can see if they are angled in by sighting down the side of the car.

Also, I use a hexagonal cut 3/4" plywood chuck between the floor jack and the jack point.

Jack the front up first so the rear is locked then do the rear. It always much less stressful when doing the rear point because it is so flat and open.

The front point always irks me because it is that little rectangle point.

Additional pre leveling was also performed prior to jacking the car up.

Use a long piece of wood and put your level on it. Then rake it to use the piece of wood to find the low and high spots.

When doing something like trans service. Place the level under the car to determine if it is fact level.

On dirt setup I had to jack the rear up a few inches more to make it fully level beforehand.

Mainly it's just a pita to do this process because it has been so fkn humid this summer.

Yea it can be a pain just getting the jacking process started, I love that these cars have low center of gravity and sit low by default compared to other brands but it makes getting them up to a serviceable level time consuming. I have a coupe and it always stresses me when starting to move up the ramps the front lower grill is gonna catch on the ramp and pry the damn bumper off, but it manages to clear. When I had my F25 x3 I could set 4 ramps in front of each tire and just drive all 4 wheels up and lock it down. The F25 had a damn screw on the underside of the transmission that by default stayed unscrewed, when you see it you would think hell that screw is loose that needs to be all the way in, I learned the hard way when you screw it in, it releases the parking brake and the vehicle will try to roll right there with you under it being its a manual release. Thank god for E brakes. Another reason to do your homework prior to messing with things. Best of luck, learned from your pointers.

[chris55552]

Originally Posted by Grease23

Some comments on George's comments:

3. I recommend never using ramps on dirt. It against the instructions for most ramps and the 'footprint' of the ramps is not wide; it is typically narrow verticals of plastic (or metal) that can dig into soil. Narrow edges imbed themselves more readily in soft surfaces. (This is why knives and axes work. Also why car crashes that involve trees or poles are so deadly.) Cement or asphalt is the way to go.

5. Not really practical for everything. If you really want your car level to warm up and set ATF levels, and you don't have a fancy lift in your garage, this is something you pretty much have to do.

6. No!!! This is absolutely contrary to the instructions, for starters. The weight ratings of ramps assume back (or front) of the car is angled downward with more weight on the tires not on the ramps. I have four ramps, and I also thought this would be a good idea. Then I noticed the product warning against it and gave it some thought and realized why it isn't recommended.

I'll add a safety suggestion I saw on an instructional video. Once you get your vehicle raised in a way you think is OK, give it a good shove with your hip from different directions. If it is nice and stable after that, whatever prying/wrenching etc. you're going to do under it isn't going to dislodge it.

Good idea, giving it a shove. May have to give mine a couple shoves just to be sure. I burned up several of my 9 lives that initial incident, have to be smart and safe going forward.. Thanks for the top

[SyCoREAPER]

Always put the rims/tires along both sides of the car. Not only could it safe the car but your life if they gave out.