[mbanck]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

That was the peak era of M. When an M car had a different motor the the normal cars. M3 V8 and M5/6 V10 were only in an M car. Not a base motor with a tune for power.

The S58 is more than just a B58 with a tune...

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Piyush

Lotus still doing Hydraulic with Emira then what's stopping BMW to keep hydraulic with M cars at least which are driver's focussed ones and also when they know their EPS is not up to mark.

Know anybody who owns a lotus? Spends more time in the shop than on the road.

Hydraulic steering is a fire hazard. Another flammable organic fluid you have to plumb for. Just ask Acura about that.

Shawn

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by mbanck

The S58 is more than just a B58 with a tune...

S58 shares only 10% with B58.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by mbanck

I believe it was Jason Cammisa on one of the Carmudgeon podcasts were he said that ZF (and likely other tier 1 suppliers as well, if there are any) refuses to build any more hydrolic power steerings for safety (fire hazard in case of accident?) reasons. I never heard that reason repeated elsewhere, but Jason in general is pretty trustworthy with this remarks (unless I misunderstood him/misremember).

I mentioned it in my other post. But here…

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/c...20TL%20owners.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

For those unaware, the first BMW to use ESP was the E85 Z4, MY03. .

I feel old because I am well aware of this as when I bought my Z4 Coupe 3.0si I recall reading about this in a magazine in like 2006.. And the Z4M did not have it of course, the lower models got the electronic power steering. (and by ESP I assume you mean electric power steering, not electronic stability control..)

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Tallest

I feel old because I am well aware of this as when I bought my Z4 Coupe 3.0si I recall reading about this in a magazine in like 2006.. And the Z4M did not have it of course, the lower models got the electronic power steering. (and by ESP I assume you mean electric power steering, not electronic stability control..)

Correct, typo at 5:30a EST.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The last great M division engine is the S65. Regular models have benefitted from turbo charging though, the B58 in particular is up there with BMW’s best work.

Yet every M engine after it does not have rod bearing issues.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The last great M division engine is the S65. Regular models have benefitted from turbo charging though, the B58 in particular is up there with BMW’s best work.

would agree about the S65/S85. They were derived from a v10 formula 1 project. they didn't share a single thing with the 'lesser' 3 or 5 series models. The n55, s55, b58, and s58 are all cousins in my eyes. its right there in the naming scheme. they used R&D from the n55 and b58 to build the M motors.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by aerobod

One major reason - EU2019/2144 - basically mandatory lane keeping assist from mid-2024 on all cars sold in the EU, pretty difficult to implement with a conventional hydraulic assist system.

Lotus will not have a conventional hydraulic assist system on the I4 AMG engined Emira compared with the conventional hydraulic assist on the V6 model, it will be a variable electrically driven (and electronically controlled) hydraulic pump. Likely the I4 will be the only model sold in the EU from next year.

I can’t see any mainstream manufacturer with an eye to competitive pricing using different steering assist systems in the EU vs other markets, so hydraulic assistance systems are pretty well dead on all mainstream cars. Not having BMW use common parts across the model range for all markets is against their converged platform strategy.

LOL the lane keeping assist that makes your car jerk to scare the absolute shit out of you? I really hope that is not the reason that we lost hydraulic steering, haha. When I rented a m340 with that option I damn near gave it back, and then turned off the “safety feature”. I imagine it will get cheaper but my god that is not a savings grace. How many people are we going to annoy or scare in an effort to save fall asleep drivers? And I would severely bet it doesn’t work well in that situation either

Lotus is very race oriented, so I can understand them fighting to keep it.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Lotus is very race oriented, so I can understand them fighting to keep it.

Lotus don't have any choice in terms of adding a non-direct steering assist that allows automatic lane keeping with no driver input if they want to sell into the EU in a years time (models with hydraulic steering assist were given an extra 2 years over the compliance date of mid-2022 for cars with EPS systems).

Besides, a true Lotus didn't have any steering assist at all, until the bloated models such as the Evora appeared, so not much history of hydraulic power assist in Lotus models to preserve.

The unassisted steering of my Caterham R400 is much better in feel and precision than a current Lotus hydraulically assisted system

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Yet every M engine after it does not have rod bearing issues.

No, they have different more expensive to to fix issues. Changing rod bearings costs $3k and you are set...

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No, they have different more expensive to to fix issues. Changing rod bearings costs $3k and you are set...

Such as

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Such as

Try educating yourself

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Try educating yourself

I am. I asked you.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No, they have different more expensive to to fix issues. Changing rod bearings costs $3k and you are set...

If the problem was caught in time, otherwise starting with the S52 bearing problems, it was generally more economical to replace the short block and camshafts for significantly higher cost, if crankshaft and camshafts had been scored.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I am. I asked you.

The forum has a search function

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No, they have different more expensive to to fix issues. Changing rod bearings costs $3k and you are set...

Like??

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Like??

Clown has no idea what he’s talking about. Just came to troll, as if replacing engine internals is just something you “do, and then you’re all set”…

The G87 forum is one of the most troll-attracting forums I’ve seen.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Clown has no idea what he’s talking about. Just came to troll, as if replacing engine internals is just something you “do, and then you’re all set”…

The G87 forum is one of the most troll-attracting forums I’ve seen.

Indeed.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Clown has no idea what he’s talking about. Just came to troll, as if replacing engine internals is just something you “do, and then you’re all set”…

The G87 forum is one of the most troll-attracting forums I’ve seen.

This was a front page article - I don't read the G87 forums.

I owned an S65 and did the rod bearings. When the bearings came out they had no marring, so it wasn't even necessary. Car was 100% reliable, with a lot of track time. Is the G87 your first M car? If you've spent any time actually owning any of these cars (or performance cars in general) you will realize they all have problems. Go educate yourself on spun crank hubs for example.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

This was a front page article - I don't read the G87 forums.

I owned an S65 and did the rod bearings. When the bearings came out they had no marring, so it wasn't even necessary. Car was 100% reliable, with a lot of track time. Is the G87 your first M car? If you've spent any time actually owning any of these cars (or performance cars in general) you will realize they all have problems. Go educate yourself on spun crank hubs for example.

I’m aware of spun crank hub. Which is most prominent on tuned cars, not stock. Using your logic, it’s just a matter of keyeing the hub and “you’re set”. External to the engine.

I know the V8s and V10s also have throttle actuator issues.

You’re saying here the newer engines have more issues and they are more expensive.

When asked to give examples you impolitely say “go educate yourself”. When giving an example, you use the crank hub (which is not an internal part, nor is it more expensive than rod bearings).

Fail to see the point you’re trying to make other than trolling.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I’m aware of spun crank hub. Which is most prominent on tuned cars, not stock. Using your logic, it’s just a matter of keyeing the hub and “you’re set”. External to the engine.

I know the V8s and V10s also have throttle actuator issues.

You’re saying here the newer engines have more issues and they are more expensive.

When asked to give examples you impolitely say “go educate yourself”. When giving an example, you use the crank hub (which is not an internal part, nor is it more expensive than rod bearings).

Fail to see the point you’re trying to make other than trolling.

Have you owned an S55 engine car? I owned one of those as well. Anyway, clearly there is no interesting discussion to be had here or anything to learn. Enjoy your car