[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by See5

I think you read that incorrectly.

They are calling VIR the Nurburgring of America.

You're right I missed America's in there as I knew the vehicle was tested at Nurburgring. I'll still contest it's poorly written by referring to VIR as America's Nurburgring, because it's not.

[Dingakasteve]

Well I might not be beating my 1LE lap times, but still loving it at a street car.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

Yup, look at the Dark Horse….Ford protects that car and brings it for reviews on full blown race tires.

I don't understand the problem. Dark House is sold with R compound tires with the handling package. They wouldn't lap the Mustang GT with Trofeo RS tires.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

I don't pay attention to these anymore. They don't even normalize for tire compound and options. The other two cars that ran faster lap times than the M2 in the same category we're using brand new DOT R compound tires and the M2 was on worn PS4S. Why do they even bother with publishing such "objective journalism"?

They run the oem rubber. For instance the CT4-V Blackwing that ran in last years group was on PS4S. BMW will put Cup 2's on CS.

The Supra time was actually on worse rubber than the G87.

[LCDRJohn]

Not to proffer and conspiracy theories....but...What I found interesting in the C&D test, is that when you watch the timed lap of the M2...the tires are silent. PS4s have a nice little howl at the limit. Nearly every other vehicle that was tested had the expected tire-sounds under braking and during understeer/steady state. If surely looked like the test driver was intimidated by the M2..perhaps due to oversteer?? I'd suggest that he held back by 5-10% for some reason.

Another interesting item is that the M3 CS in the test has tires with significantly less grip than the M2's PS4s, but it had 5MPH more speed in turn one compared to the M2. That is HUGE considering they share their chassis and 90% of suspension tuning. With the CS carrying 313 more LBS, and the turn being essentially a 100' radius skidpad, there is no way it could carry 5mph more at the apex.

It's one reason I can't take C&D seriously anymore. Someone like Randy Pobst over at Motor Trend runs every car damn hard at laguna because he doesn't want his rep tarnished. Who knows what machinations go on over at C&D.

[ScottyRyan2019]

I'm impressed by the X5MC running a 2:58.1

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019

I'm impressed by the X5MC running a 2:58.1

The brakes will hold up for a lap or 2, but the weight over-taxes them quickly. Drove the X5MC, X3MC, M2 (auto), M3CS and M4C at Area 27 last summer within an hour of each other. The X5MC brakes faded much faster than the others, with the X3MC taking punishment better, but still noticeably more fade than the cars.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

Not to proffer and conspiracy theories....but...
It's one reason I can't take C&D seriously anymore. Someone like Randy Pobst over at Motor Trend runs every car damn hard at laguna because he doesn't want his rep tarnished. Who knows what machinations go on over at C&D.

I don't know if it was C&D, but there was a video comparing the M2 to the C8 Stingray. And the Stingray demolished the M2, but there is no way it should have beat it by that much. They switched drivers, and the cars were near even after the 1/4 mi, then coming out of a u-turn even, somehow the SR pulls stupid lengths on the M2. Everyone who follows Corvettes knows the SR falls flat above 80 mph or so due to stupid gearing, so it should not pull on a G87 like it did in their "test".

[akumachu]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I don't know if it was C&D, but there was a video comparing the M2 to the C8 Stingray. And the Stingray demolished the M2, but there is no way it should have beat it by that much. They switched drivers, and the cars were near even after the 1/4 mi, then coming out of a u-turn even, somehow the SR pulls stupid lengths on the M2. Everyone who follows Corvettes knows the SR falls flat above 80 mph or so due to stupid gearing, so it should not pull on a G87 like it did in their "test".

I am pretty sure that was Edmund's U Drag race thing.
I don't believe any of those tests since I don't know how that was any way scientific or drivers had any cred at all.

[Lappy]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I don't know if it was C&D, but there was a video comparing the M2 to the C8 Stingray. And the Stingray demolished the M2, but there is no way it should have beat it by that much. They switched drivers, and the cars were near even after the 1/4 mi, then coming out of a u-turn even, somehow the SR pulls stupid lengths on the M2. Everyone who follows Corvettes knows the SR falls flat above 80 mph or so due to stupid gearing, so it should not pull on a G87 like it did in their "test".

Have you pushed the m2 on a track yet or autox yet? The reason the c8 pulled hard was because of rear grip while still turning due to engine placement and other things. Unless it's an awd version the g8x cannot put power down while turning on the limit.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by M3WC

I don't understand the problem. Dark House is sold with R compound tires with the handling package. They wouldn't lap the Mustang GT with Trofeo RS tires.

Exactly, in fact you can't even get a Dark Horse with the Handling Package in the winter built because of the tires. To be honest just get a regular Dark Horse and put your own rubber in her. That is the majority of improvement over a regular DH. That being said the M2 with similar rubber could definitely put her in the ball park.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Have you pushed the m2 on a track yet or autox yet? The reason the c8 pulled hard was because of rear grip while still turning due to engine placement and other things. Unless it's an awd version the g8x cannot put power down while turning on the limit.

This is a good point. The SR is built for a racetrack, the Udrag by Edmund’s really put the M2 in a lose-lose situation…..off the line and in a 1 turn evaluation, there should have been no surprises here.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

Not to proffer and conspiracy theories....but...What I found interesting in the C&D test, is that when you watch the timed lap of the M2...the tires are silent. PS4s have a nice little howl at the limit. Nearly every other vehicle that was tested had the expected tire-sounds under braking and during understeer/steady state. If surely looked like the test driver was intimidated by the M2..perhaps due to oversteer?? I'd suggest that he held back by 5-10% for some reason.

That is what I posted - this guy was on a parade lap in the M2. Weird!

[Biglife]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

Not to proffer and conspiracy theories....but...What I found interesting in the C&D test, is that when you watch the timed lap of the M2...the tires are silent. PS4s have a nice little howl at the limit. Nearly every other vehicle that was tested had the expected tire-sounds under braking and during understeer/steady state. If surely looked like the test driver was intimidated by the M2..perhaps due to oversteer??

Came here to make the same comment. This isn't an accurate display of the M2's capabilities - driver was going 7/10 at best.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I don't know if it was C&D, but there was a video comparing the M2 to the C8 Stingray. And the Stingray demolished the M2, but there is no way it should have beat it by that much. They switched drivers, and the cars were near even after the 1/4 mi, then coming out of a u-turn even, somehow the SR pulls stupid lengths on the M2. Everyone who follows Corvettes knows the SR falls flat above 80 mph or so due to stupid gearing, so it should not pull on a G87 like it did in their "test".

Are you implying without explicitly saying it, that Edmunds rigged the test so the Corvette would win? How would they do that, given that they switched drivers?

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Are you implying without explicitly saying it, that Edmunds rigged the test so the Corvette would win? How would they do that, given that they switched drivers?

I'm pointing out that given the stats of both vehicles, the Stingray should not have beat the M2 by as much as it did. When they switched driver's the vehicles were much closer, but after the turn somehow the M2 looked like a dog.

They also said they were letting the vehicles do the shifting but you clearly see the first driver of the M2 using the paddles coming out of the turn. There are so many settings variables on both cars that choosing the wrong setting (comfort vs track) can impact the performance outcomes.

I own both M2 & and a Z06 (not C8) so I'm very familiar with both platforms. Like others have said, I'd take stock in what someone like Randy Pobst does in each car vs the publication's drivers.

[aerobod]

With the slightly lower weight of the C8, 40/60 weight bias and 305 wide rear tyre, it will be able to use about 50% more power than the G87 when exiting a corner. I think the U-drag has a high proportion of the time in a virtual increasing radius turn, leading to the ability to apply power while cornering being a major advantage.

I would think the AWD M240i, RS3 and A45 would all gain ground on the G87 in the same way the C8 did.

[BackOnBlack]

Looking at the actual lap video for both M2 and M3, I think the driver really did a good job. Hitting 150 mph on the front straight, entering the up-hill Sess at 135 mph and exiting near 110, running through Hog Pen at around 70 mph, etc. On street tires, it is very difficult to achieve those numbers IMHO.

[akumachu]

Well, C&D has a follow up talking about these laps.

and they mentioned that they test M2 last at the end of the day and were *only* able to do 4 laps (implying other cars possibly had more). So that certainly would be a contributing factor to the time.

Again, not exactly a well defined process and measurement for performances.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by akumachu

Well, C&D has a follow up talking about these laps.

and they mentioned that they test M2 last at the end of the day and were *only* able to do 4 laps (implying other cars possibly had more). So that certainly would be a contributing factor to the time.

Again, not exactly a well defined process and measurement for performances.

Came here to post the same thing 4 laps total on the M2 at the end of the day.

He describes how in the M3CS they used up one set on PZ4s, then one set of Cup2s, then they were going to run yet another set of Cup2s, only to find out they were the wrong size.

Then he described how they put a ton of laps on the Nismo, then Nissan put a new set of rotors/pads/tires to go set the time.

So to recap....They got the heaviest possible M2 (sunroof, heavy seats, auto), put the fattest driver they have on it (sorry, but true), had only one set of tires, and ran it only 4 laps at the end of the the day.

P.S. to be fair to C&D (I do appreciate their Lightning Lap and don't want to be overly critical) BMW NA just prob deliver this car at the end of the test with worn tires and s%$#. It's BMW NA's fault more than C&Ds.

[baron95]

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that BMW NA didn't want the M2 to post times too close to the M3CS (a car that costs twice as much). So the M3CS gets 3 sets of tires and 3 days (including 2 sets of Cup2s), and the M2 gets the heavy car, with a single set of worn tires at the end of the day for only 4 laps.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The brakes will hold up for a lap or 2, but the weight over-taxes them quickly. Drove the X5MC, X3MC, M2 (auto), M3CS and M4C at Area 27 last summer within an hour of each other. The X5MC brakes faded much faster than the others, with the X3MC taking punishment better, but still noticeably more fade than the cars.

If that’s true, the new M5 is going to implode on any track.