[RobD]

I have some questions about the F Stock class....

Can I change the wheel sizes? i.e. 8.5in wheels in front and back instead of 8.5/9.5?

Can I run 17" wheels on a sport package car? The Kosei K1's are super cheap compared to SSR's but the Koseis only come in a 17.

Kosei K3's come in an 18 but they are over 20 lbs each.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[ward]

as a general rule, if you want to be in "stock" class

you can't change wheel sizes (unless you go to an optional size, like the sport pack size)


unless chosen VERY carefully, changing wheels will put you into the "street prepared" class, even if you keep the same dimensions changing to lighter wheels can affect classification.

nothing wrong with being in that category, but you'll be facing much tougher competition (guys with race tires)

[RobD]

Hmm.

Well, I have the sport package setup (18"s) with 8.5 front and 9.5 rears.
I want to put 17" wheels with 8.5" in front and back.

The non sport package came with 17s but I believe that the setup still had larger wheels in the back.

There was a guy at an auto-x running SSR wheels (8.5f/9.5r) and Hoosiers IIRC in F-stock. I know he had SSR's and he was in F-stock. Can't remember exactly what tires he had tho.

Is anyone in here running in F-stock?

[pearlwhites]

Originally Posted by ward

as a general rule, if you want to be in "stock" class

you can't change wheel sizes (unless you go to an optional size, like the sport pack size)


unless chosen VERY carefully, changing wheels will put you into the "street prepared" class, even if you keep the same dimensions changing to lighter wheels can affect classification.

nothing wrong with being in that category, but you'll be facing much tougher competition (guys with race tires)

Plenty of cars in FS ran race tires at the last event I went to. My limited understanding was that all wearable items are replaceable under the rules (ie clutches, brake pads, tires etc)

[ward]

Originally Posted by pearlwhites

Plenty of cars in FS ran race tires at the last event I went to. My limited understanding was that all wearable items are replaceable under the rules (ie clutches, brake pads, tires etc)

there's a difference between replacing tires that are worn out and putting on "race rubber"

ps2's and similar are not race rubber


treadwear number less than 60 or 80 us usually what constitutes "race rubber" and nobody anywhere would classify a car with race tires as a "stock class car"

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by ward

there's a difference between replacing tires that are worn out and putting on "race rubber"

ps2's and similar are not race rubber


treadwear number less than 60 or 80 us usually what constitutes "race rubber" and nobody anywhere would classify a car with race tires as a "stock class car"

You can have race tires in any stock class. My car is in D stock and last AutoX it was in the same class as a Mazdaspeed 3 with race tires and it raped my car.

[ward]

wow, that's certainly different than the groups I've ran autoX with


sucks to have to race against people with race rubber, that's about the biggest performance gain you can get! You can still beat them, but you've got to be a better driver than they are!


here's the list of what you can do and still stay in "stock" class

Stock
As a rough guide, if your car has modifications beyond this list it is not eligible for Stock Category:

* Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed), plus
* Standard OEM identical replacement parts
* Accessories, gauges, appearance, comfort, and convenience items (not replacement driver's seat, though) that basically don't help
* Added roll bar or roll cage to spec (not required, though)
* Driver harness (no cutting seats to install, though)
* Trailer hitch and/or tow bar mountings
* Any wheel of diameter and width identical to a stock or factory optional wheel, offset within +- 0.25 inch
* Most street legal tires that will fit the mounted wheels and stock bodywork
* Any shock absorber of the same type and mounting as original; no change to standard spring mountings is allowed; suspension geometry may not be altered; gas or hydraulic shocks are permitted
* Any brake linings; pre-1992 cars may use solid/braided metal brake lines.
* Any front anti-roll bar (no change to stock/optional rear anti-roll bar, if present)
* Manufacturer specified ignition settings only
* Any replacement air filter element (or removal of air filter element); no plumbing changes, however
* Engine bored no more than .020"; no balancing or porting/polishing of head
* Replacement of any part of the exhaust system past the catalytic converter (if quiet)
* Any oil filter
* Added clutch scattershield


not all that stock anymore is it!

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by ward

there's a difference between replacing tires that are worn out and putting on "race rubber"

ps2's and similar are not race rubber


treadwear number less than 60 or 80 us usually what constitutes "race rubber" and nobody anywhere would classify a car with race tires as a "stock class car"

What about the Yoko A048's that come on Lotus Elise/Exige and the Michilins(sp?) that come on the GT3?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by ward

wow, that's certainly different than the groups I've ran autoX with

You've never run with SCCA? All the "stock" cars in my region are running on these:

ps2's and similar are not race rubber

PS2s aren't even good street tires. :P For street tire classes (STS, STX, etc.) you can run anything with treadwear 140 or higher. THIS is a good street tire:



For stock there is no minimum tread wear, the tire must only fit under the stock bodywork and have measurable tread depth. So while you can't use a "true" race slick, you can use an R compound tire like the one above because that nifty line is considered measurable tread depth. That Kumho tire above has a tread wear rating of 30 by the way.

[ksfrogman]

Yeah, tires make the biggest difference! Get an extra set of stock sized wheels and slap on that soft rubber.

[rsjames]

Stock, as far as SCCA Solo (autocross) is concerned, is only a name.

Now, to clear up a few things:

You can only use the sport package wheels if you have the sport package. If you don't have the sport package, to use the same size wheels as came on the sport package, you must install all the other components of the sport package - springs and, yes, even the seats. If you want to run non-sport package sizes, you must change the whole car to non-sport package.

You can use as light a wheel as you want, as long as it is metal and has the same dimensions (offset has a 1/4 inch allowance).

Ward's rundown is pretty accurate, although SCCA does allow any DOT tire (there are some exceptions - new tires that haven't been produced in a minimum number of sizes, for example), including R-compound tires like the Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710.

Now, that said, at the Regional level, if your rear wheels are half an inch off, probably no one is going to hassle you. That's especially true if you're new to autocross, because chances are you won't be winning. At the Divisional, National Tour or Nationals level, people will care.

I will be running F Stock if I ever get my car back.

Richard

[ward]

I've never run SCCA, we had a local autocross club that I ran with 8 years ago or so, and I've run with BMWCCA a couple of times

[RobD]

Ok, so I have to run stock sizes. My OP was incorrect. I have the 8 inch front and 8.5 rear. Nothing on Tirerack will fit. If there are wheels in other widths, they are not showing them probably because of some offset issue.

So, Kosei K3's are 8.5 inch - dunno if that will fit on front. How will it be if I put the factory size 225/40 on there?

Sport Edition wheels are a bit heavy at 24 pounds and only available in 18x8. How would a 255/35 fit on there?

SSR's are in 8.5 inch and TR Motorsports are in 8 inch widths.

None of the models displayed for my car have an 8/8.5 stagger setup available.

I don't know how much autocrossing I will be doing. I am trying to get into Buttonwillow on 9/7 though.

I don't want to have 3 sets of tires. Should I just get the 8 inch wheels all around and stagger the tire size? Or just run the same tire size and forget about the f-stock class?

I doubt I will hit any sort of track more than 4 times per year... Perhaps I should just go the least expensive route.

[Chowbow]

If you aren't really in it for the competition, then just run whatever you have. So get into the street mod class and get pwn3d by everyone else in the class, who cares?

If you're on street tires, you aren't winning anything unless you're specifically in the "street tire" (not stock) class.

I'm never in it for the points so I always run out of class or just put in Fun Runs so that I never get any hassles from anyone in regards to tech or "fairness."

I have an extra set of 17" M3 non-staggered rims..... wonder if they'll fit and if I can throw some V710s on there just for the hell of it and get it smashing at the track!

[smellthebeans]

Originally Posted by ward

as a general rule, if you want to be in "stock" class

you can't change wheel sizes (unless you go to an optional size, like the sport pack size)


unless chosen VERY carefully, changing wheels will put you into the "street prepared" class, even if you keep the same dimensions changing to lighter wheels can affect classification.

nothing wrong with being in that category, but you'll be facing much tougher competition (guys with race tires)

Could'nt he change to 17s on all 4 corners and still remain in the same class?

This is an offering from the factory...he would not be changing the "stock" configuration.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by smellthebeans

Could'nt he change to 17s on all 4 corners and still remain in the same class?

This is an offering from the factory...he would not be changing the "stock" configuration.

No, you must have every part of a factory equipped package or none of it. So if you want to eliminate the sport package to go with the stock non-sport 17s then you'd also have to change to non-sport seats, non-sport suspension, etc.

[S4to335]

My understanding when I was doing SCCA autocross a lot back in 2000/2001, that you could go smaller on wheels in stock class..just not bigger...so you should be able to run 17s with SSR comps..with R compounds in stock class. You should be able to change shocks too...just not springs/sway bars.

[Noize]

Heck, I thought the 335i was in B Stock. FS is a lot more believable. The Evo was in AS aka dominated by S2000s.

I definitely need to get the new whale on track; locals giving me lots of shat.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by ward

there's a difference between replacing tires that are worn out and putting on "race rubber"

ps2's and similar are not race rubber


treadwear number less than 60 or 80 us usually what constitutes "race rubber" and nobody anywhere would classify a car with race tires as a "stock class car"

I understand that anything below 100 treadwear is race rubber

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by S4to335

My understanding when I was doing SCCA autocross a lot back in 2000/2001, that you could go smaller on wheels in stock class..just not bigger...so you should be able to run 17s with SSR comps..with R compounds in stock class. You should be able to change shocks too...just not springs/sway bars.

No it has to be the same diameter and width but it can be 1/4" from stock offset.

[RobD]

from what I have heard, because it came with the sport pkg, the only way I could use the non-sport package size wheels would be to remove all other components that made it a sport package and replace them with the non-sport counterpart.
SCCA does allow R-compound tires in FStock. Hoosiers seem to be the tire of choice around here.
I guess I can just get some 17 or 18 x 8" wheels all around and some Kumho or other less expensive performance tires. Tire Rack has some wheels that are $130 but they are 25 pounds or so. Still lighter than stockers I guess.
I don't want to shell out $460 per wheel for SSR's when they can get me DQ'ed.

Thanks for the help!

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by RobD

from what I have heard, because it came with the sport pkg, the only way I could use the non-sport package size wheels would be to remove all other components that made it a sport package and replace them with the non-sport counterpart.
SCCA does allow R-compound tires in FStock. Hoosiers seem to be the tire of choice around here.
I guess I can just get some 17 or 18 x 8" wheels all around and some Kumho or other less expensive performance tires. Tire Rack has some wheels that are $130 but they are 25 pounds or so. Still lighter than stockers I guess.
I don't want to shell out $460 per wheel for SSR's when they can get me DQ'ed.

Thanks for the help!

DQ'd?...unless your at a national pro solo or national event..you wont get "DQ'd". The only time this becomes an issue is when you go to all the events that year..and are leading other cars by a huge margin...then you call attention to yourself..and get extra scrutiny. We dont have anally retentive members out here in the NorCal-Golden Gate Chapter.