[krhodes1]

This is for my 128i, but it's all the same parts as an e9x and this forum sees far more traffic.

Went to change the brake fluid this afternoon, it's major service time. I have a Motive pressure bleeder, and I did this when I bought the car four years ago with no problems. This time, I can't get any flow to any of the calipers. Very, very odd. Motive seems to be building pressure fine, though the seal at the master cylinder isn't great and I had a bit of trouble with leaking. But I got it sealed up and even with 25psi in the bottle I am getting nothing.

I've been using Motive pressure bleeders for decades and never had this issue.

Tomorrow I may borrow my neighbor and try it the old-fashioned two-man manual way, but anyone have any bright ideas?

[NZE90]

Did you try removing the bleed nipple from the caliper? Sometimes they can become blocked.

[eljay]

That's strange.
Do you have INPA or ISTA? You can trigger the procedure there.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by NZE90

Did you try removing the bleed nipple from the caliper? Sometimes they can become blocked.

Sure did - nothing. It's really odd.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by eljay

That's strange.
Do you have INPA or ISTA? You can trigger the procedure there.

You don't need to trigger anything to normally bleed/flush the brakes absent replacing parts or otherwise running the system dry somehow. BTDT many times between my two BMWs (and tons of other cars with similar ABS systems).

I think something is FUBAR with my Motive. Ordered a new pressure bleeder that will be here today. I could see ONE caliper having an issue and not bleeding, but not all four.

[lookalikehuuh]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

You don't need to trigger anything to normally bleed/flush the brakes absent replacing parts or otherwise running the system dry somehow. BTDT many times between my two BMWs (and tons of other cars with similar ABS systems).

I think something is FUBAR with my Motive. Ordered a new pressure bleeder that will be here today. I could see ONE caliper having an issue and not bleeding, but not all four.

I think your logic is possibly messed up here, there is a reason BMW created the specific bleed procedure in INPA/ISTA. Use the INPA procedure or do the old school 2 man procedure.

I can tell you though that there is nothing wrong with your Motive system the car was not designed to be bleed from the caliper itself.

Long story short, the bleeder valves in BMWs are designed to have fluid "pushed" by the system not "pulled" by a bleeder system like motive.

I have done like 10 blake bleed procedures on both of my E90s since I am religious with maintenance. Every time, except the very first time when I went down the rabbit hole like you are doing, I have used the INPA bleed procedure and it has been the easiest bleed ever done.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by lookalikehuuh

I think your logic is possibly messed up here, there is a reason BMW created the specific bleed procedure in INPA/ISTA. Use the INPA procedure or do the old school 2 man procedure.

I can tell you though that there is nothing wrong with your Motive system the car was not designed to be bleed from the caliper itself.

Long story short, the bleeder valves in BMWs are designed to have fluid "pushed" by the system not "pulled" by a bleeder system like motive.

I have done like 10 blake bleed procedures on both of my E90s since I am religious with maintenance. Every time, except the very first time when I went down the rabbit hole like you are doing, I have used the INPA bleed procedure and it has been the easiest bleed ever done.

The Motive is a PRESSURE bleeding system. It is not pulling anything. I also have done this 10+ times on just my BMWs, and probably 50 times on other cars with similar systems. It does the exact same thing as the "two-man" method, albeit with lower pressures involved. But no more than 15-20psi should ever be needed to move fluid through the system.

The BMW procedure is for when components like the ABS pump have been replaced, or air has been introduced into them, for example by allowing the reservoir to run dry. It is not needed for routine brake bleeding/flushing.

I am going to bet that my new pressure bleeder works just fine, and something is wrong with this one and it's not passing pressure through the cap properly.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Does depressing the brake pedal push fluid out of the caliper bleed plug? If so, the Motive is probably the issue. Does it hold pressure? Are you using it dry (just a source of pressure) or wet (filled with brake fluid)?

I use this pressure bleeder for my 335i, was the best bang for your buck that I could find. I use it dry (opening the cap to refill the brake fluid reservoir).

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Does depressing the brake pedal push fluid out of the caliper bleed plug? If so, the Motive is probably the issue. Does it hold pressure? Are you using it dry (just a source of pressure) or wet (filled with brake fluid)?

I use this pressure bleeder for my 335i, was the best bang for your buck that I could find. I use it dry (opening the cap to refill the brake fluid reservoir).

I don't know yet - no helper. The tank is holding pressure, but that doesn't mean it's getting to the reservoir.

The Motive bleeder is the same idea, slightly different execution. I have always used it wet, I don't really see the point of using one dry, that just increases the risk of running the reservoir dry and getting air in the system.

I have actually become disenchanted with the Motive bleeders, having had a couple fail in various ways. I ordered a different one that I like better that is a bit more advanced (multiple interchangable caps, pressure release valve, etc). I have one like that at my other place up north and like it a lot better anyway.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

I don't know yet - no helper.

You can get a "one-man" bleeder kit, or make your own. It's just a hose going into a bottle with the hose reaching the bottom of the bottle (to avoid sucking back air). You just put the hose on the bleeder plug, open it a bit, go into the car and pump the brakes a few times (depending on the capacity of the bottle and how quickly it drains the reservoir). It's the same as having to people or using a pressure bleeder, except you can't observe any bubbles escaping (if you're trying to make sure the system is fully bled of air).

Originally Posted by krhodes1

I have always used it wet, I don't really see the point of using one dry, that just increases the risk of running the reservoir dry and getting air in the system.

Using it dry makes sure that a catastrophic failure under pressure won't spray brake fluid everywhere. I've read too many stories like that for Motive bleeders to ever use something like that wet. Also, you don't need to clean up the bleeder from brake fluid.

I have a mason jar that accepts the used brake fluid from the bleed plugs that I marked with how much I can bleed before I need to refill the reservoir (as well as how much to bleed from each wheel).

[mattanderson]

Originally Posted by lookalikehuuh

I think your logic is possibly messed up here, there is a reason BMW created the specific bleed procedure in INPA/ISTA. Use the INPA procedure or do the old school 2 man procedure.

I can tell you though that there is nothing wrong with your Motive system the car was not designed to be bleed from the caliper itself.

Long story short, the bleeder valves in BMWs are designed to have fluid "pushed" by the system not "pulled" by a bleeder system like motive.

I have done like 10 blake bleed procedures on both of my E90s since I am religious with maintenance. Every time, except the very first time when I went down the rabbit hole like you are doing, I have used the INPA bleed procedure and it has been the easiest bleed ever done.

Sorry but are you actually familiar w/ the Motive? Because it's definitely not "pulling".

Even the INPA/ISTA procedure is intended to be used with a pressure bleeder (like the Motive) applying pressure.

[Mike K]

It’s my understanding that ISTA wants a pressure bleeder but INPA doesn’t as shown here:

[krhodes1]

it was the Motive, as I expected. New bleeder worked just fine with the usual 15psi in it.

That is the last Motive I will ever buy. But a very odd failure. It was passing fluid sufficiently to fill up the master cylinder, but not enough pressure to allow it to bleed, even though it was building pressure just fine. it went into the circular file.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

You can get a "one-man" bleeder kit, or make your own. It's just a hose going into a bottle with the hose reaching the bottom of the bottle (to avoid sucking back air). You just put the hose on the bleeder plug, open it a bit, go into the car and pump the brakes a few times (depending on the capacity of the bottle and how quickly it drains the reservoir). It's the same as having to people or using a pressure bleeder, except you can't observe any bubbles escaping (if you're trying to make sure the system is fully bled of air).



Using it dry makes sure that a catastrophic failure under pressure won't spray brake fluid everywhere. I've read too many stories like that for Motive bleeders to ever use something like that wet. Also, you don't need to clean up the bleeder from brake fluid.

I have a mason jar that accepts the used brake fluid from the bleed plugs that I marked with how much I can bleed before I need to refill the reservoir (as well as how much to bleed from each wheel).

I prefer to just use it the way it is intended and save the bother.

As I said, I have done it 50+ times with this style bleeder, and while I have now worn out or had them fail three times in the past 25 years or so, it has never been in any way "catastrophic". One had the pump fail, one had the hose fail (split while in storage), and now one has some sort of blockage. But as I said, I like the other style better. It's the one that BavAuto used to sell under their brand, but you can get them as no-names on Amazon for very reasonable money (and delivered overnight, in this case). Much more convenient to use than the Motive. We will see how long this pair last.

[eljay]

Good to hear you got it solved. My Motive bleeder is somehow not sealing properly around the pressure gauge. I can get it to hold pressure where I "tighten" it just right, but yeah it takes some fiddling with it.

Also, INPA/ISTA process allows you to trigger ABS pump and bleed it.

And all of this just reminds me that I'm due to change my brake fluid.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by eljay

Good to hear you got it solved. My Motive bleeder is somehow not sealing properly around the pressure gauge. I can get it to hold pressure where I "tighten" it just right, but yeah it takes some fiddling with it.

Also, INPA/ISTA process allows you to trigger ABS pump and bleed it.

And all of this just reminds me that I'm due to change my brake fluid.

I'm really done with them. This one is probably only five years old and has only been used maybe five-six times.

Now to wait for the hurricane to pass by in the gulf and take the rain away so I can do the rear shocks and change the coolant on Saturday. Then hopefully the car will be happy for a while.

[Mike K]

Just did the brake fluid change today. I used INPA per the above youtube. I also used an Ebay bleed bottle like this one below and I must say it was the easiest brake fluid change ever. Nothing was spilled which was a first for me! The chain and bottle capacity made the job much easier than smaller bottles that tip over with wimpy hoses and rubber fittings that usually leak.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15614758395...mis&media=COPY

INPA's procedure got the ABS pump running (makes a sort of fish pump noise) and flushing fluid at each caliper too. I had a trickle charge on the battery at the under hood points. But INPA was finished at each corner only after a few pedal pumps and I felt like more fluid should be changed.

So I just continued a few more cycles around the four corners old school without INPA and just the pedal, until the bleeder bottle was full and the fresh 32 oz Dot 4 bottle was mostly empty. Carefully topping up the MC as I went. The rear calipers took a 9mm, and the front an 11mm bleeder screw wrench.

I also rotated the tires while the car was up on 4 jack stands with two floor jacks centered fore and aft. I had no issues climbing in and out of the car to run INPA and manage the many pedal pushes with support in 6 places and all the wheels off. Greased the contact points at each wheel to prevent stubborn wheel removal.

Brakes feel great!

[Efthreeoh]

I made a catch bottle out of an empty washer fluid jug. I drilled a 1/4" hole in the cap, stuck a white opaque rigid plastic tube down to the bottom of the jug. Then attached 20" or so of flexible clear surgical tubing to the plastic tube. The surgical tubing fits on the bleeder value. I hang the jug from the suspension with some leftover solid 12/3 electrical wire. All stuff I had laying around my shop.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Mike K

Just did the brake fluid change today. I used INPA per the above youtube. I also used an Ebay bleed bottle like this one below and I must say it was the easiest brake fluid change ever. Nothing was spilled which was a first for me! The chain and bottle capacity made the job much easier than smaller bottles that tip over with wimpy hoses and rubber fittings that usually leak.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15614758395...mis&media=COPY

INPA's procedure got the ABS pump running (makes a sort of fish pump noise) and flushing fluid at each caliper too. I had a trickle charge on the battery at the under hood points. But INPA was finished at each corner only after a few pedal pumps and I felt like more fluid should be changed.

So I just continued a few more cycles around the four corners old school without INPA and just the pedal, until the bleeder bottle was full and the fresh 32 oz Dot 4 bottle was mostly empty. Carefully topping up the MC as I went. The rear calipers took a 9mm, and the front an 11mm bleeder screw wrench.

I also rotated the tires while the car was up on 4 jack stands with two floor jacks centered fore and aft. I had no issues climbing in and out of the car to run INPA and manage the many pedal pushes with support in 6 places and all the wheels off. Greased the contact points at each wheel to prevent stubborn wheel removal.

Brakes feel great!

Use an old broom stick to push the pedal. Then no need to get in and out of the car...

[mainbearing]

Anyone tried this vacuum tool?

https://www.harborfreight.com/pneuma...kit-57057.html

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mainbearing

Anyone tried this vacuum tool?

https://www.harborfreight.com/pneuma...kit-57057.html

Looks like overkill to me.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by mainbearing

Anyone tried this vacuum tool?

https://www.harborfreight.com/pneuma...kit-57057.html

I have never had much luck with suction bleeding anything. Either pressure bleed, or use a BMW scan tool/INPA to activate the pump (which I think is overkill for a routine fluid change).