[M2siast]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

Other sources claiming +21 or +22 HP, though likely due the small difference between US SAE Net and PS (PferdStarke) German rating differences.

So probably +20 US SAE Net, with peak torque remaining fixed regardless for manual trans cars. Automatic (ZF 8 speed) car's may gain an additional albeit very tiny advantage in accelerative performance due to stated peak engine torque increase, which in theory result in a very slight increase in average HP under the utilized area of the HP curve. This should slightly improve overall derivability and perhaps reduce automated gear changes.

353 KW in 2025 vs 338 KW in 2023/2024 is 20 hp metric or American.

From 453 American HP in 23/24 to 473 American HP in 25.
From 460 metric HP in 23/24 to 480 metric HP in 25.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by evdoho

Yes, allocations are typically distributed a month ahead of the “production month” which they are scheduled for.

As far as we know, MY25 production begins in August, therefore, I expect those August allocations to be distributed the first week of July or possibly the last week of June.

Many here have reported much longer timeframes between allocation and production dates. Selected options play a role in that, with extra cost paint and full carbon packages frequently extending time between allocation and production.

I put money down on a new M2 9 days ago; just mailed my sales rep to tell him I want a 2025 car period and to move me behind in their allocation list if needed. Three M2 allocations in front me at that high volume M dealership, but still not comfortable I'll get a 2025 car without specific request.

Told him that any additional price increases (within agreed upon floating MSRP) is fine with me. Cash deal with no trade and I expect them to accommodate that request.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by M2siast

353 KW in 2025 vs 338 KW in 2023/2024 is 20 hp metric or American.

From 453 American HP in 23/24 to 473 American HP in 25.
From 460 metric HP in 23/24 to 480 metric HP in 25.

KW to metric (PS) HP vs KW to American SAE Net isn't exactly the same, though.

Related article here:

Key excerpt: "100 kilowatts equal 134 U.S. or 136 metric [PS] horsepower."

This means that the metric (PS) rating will be 1.0149 higher than the American (SAE net) rating for any given KW rating, realizing these engines are under-rated by some 60 HP (SAE net) to being with.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/techno...week-explains/

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

PS (German) ratings and American SAE Net aren't exactly the same, though. PS is always a bit higher, meaning the conversion isn't perfectly linear.

A 21 increase in PS ratings could easily equate to a 20 increase in American (SAE Net) ratings.

Summarily, KW to HP conversion to PS vs American SAE Net isn't exactly the same.

There’s no such thing as a “German” horsepower. Germany uses metric, just like the rest of the world.

Brits and Americans use imperial measurements. While they’re different, I provided you with the power in KW, old and new. Convert the KW into your preferred HP to get the 20 hp increase.

Or if you really want to be super precise:

20.11 American (imperial) HP increase
20.39 German (metric) HP increase

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by M2siast

There’s no such thing as a “German” horsepower. Germany uses metric, just like the rest of the world.

Brits and Americans use imperial measurements. While they’re different, I provided you with the power in KW, old and new. Convert the KW into your preferred HP to get the 20 hp increase.

Or if you really want to be super precise:

20.11 American (imperial) HP increase
20.39 German (metric) HP increase

Again:

KW to metric (PS) HP vs KW to American SAE Net isn't exactly the same.

Related article here:

Key excerpt: "100 kilowatts equal 134 U.S. or 136 metric [PS] horsepower."

This means that the metric (PS) rating will be 1.0149 higher than the American (SAE net) rating for any given KW rating, realizing these engines are under-rated by some 60 HP (SAE net) to being with.

I'll note that I never once used the term "German Horsepower."

https://www.autoweek.com/news/techno...week-explains/

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

Again:

KW to metric (PS) HP vs KW to American SAE Net isn't exactly the same.

Related article here:

Key excerpt: "100 kilowatts equal 134 U.S. or 136 metric [PS] horsepower."

This means that the metric (PS) rating will be 1.0149 higher than the American (SAE net) rating for any given KW rating, realizing these engines are under-rated by some 60 HP (SAE net) to being with.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/techno...week-explains/

OMG

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by M2siast

There’s no such thing as a “German” horsepower. Germany uses metric, just like the rest of the world.

Brits and Americans use imperial measurements. While they’re different, I provided you with the power in KW, old and new. Convert the KW into your preferred HP to get the 20 hp increase.

Or if you really want to be super precise:

20.11 American (imperial) HP increase
20.39 German (metric) HP increase

More here. Much more to this than you appear to currently recognize: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lution-column/

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by M2siast

OMG

Bro...just scroll.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by M2siast

OMG

More on HP ratings. Section I highlighted differs from current discussion, but read on for differences between DIN and SAE Net HP.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141864...blic/lightbox/

Author holds an MIT mechanical engineering degree, was editor in chief at CAR AND DRIVER (back when it was a real magazine) and also a former Ford powertrain engineer.

I am also a mechanical engineer with three registered patents and have been widely published in various magazines (letters to editor) and some newspapers on this these same topics.

Much more to all of this then what most folks are aware of...

DIN and PS are identical, but different than current (since 1972 model year) American SAE Net ratings. The American SAE Gross rating prior to the 1972 mode year were little more than bad jokes as the author elaborates on.

Current BMW M2 engine could have easily easily been advertised at 700 plus HP (gross) under those old silly standards.

[m2not1LE]

Still more on horsepower.

World is always vastly more complex than what most people realize, even with something as "simple" as horsepower ratings (and the kilowatt to horsepower conversion factors).

https://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-tec...et-horsepower/

[aerobod]

As is usually the case with inconsistent non-SI units, best to just ignore power quoted in whatever horsepower unit and use the SI Watt rating to avoid confusion.

[Tag]

There's nothing to debate, MY25 is getting 473hp. I've literally seen it list 473hp on the back end. You'll have official confirmation from BMW in a few months. That said, I can easily see this then turning into a BMW always underrates their hp figures, therefore...

[lithe]

Any new info on M2 possibly getting xDrive as an option?

I think it's long been rumored that a definitive announcement would be made this September. Holding off on finalizing my '25 order until then for that reason.

My friend is a GM at a BMW store & is at a meeting in Las Vegas this past week, he was also hoping to get more info regarding AWD option.

[BroDoze]

So will the CS be a MY25 or we’ll “see it in ‘25” as a MY26?

Isn’t it safe to say the CS will have whatever upgraded front-end or facelift changes the G87 is going to get? It’s like the CS is coming a year or two too early. Shouldn’t the Comp be next year instead?

Am I going to regret waiting on an MY25 when the LCI with new facelift etc could come as a MY26? BMW wouldn’t run a facelifted CS and a non-facelifted regular G87 in the same MY would they?

Gah - freakin’ rumors man. IMO, the F87 Comp facelift upgrade was such an improvement over the first F87 it was a night and day for me. I hope I won’t regret an MY25 purchase.

One could grow old and die crazy waiting for such future things…

These aren’t iPhones we’re talking about. These are very expensive depreciating items that are held 3-4 years minimum and possibly longer. Not to mention the thousands we’ll dump into them modding them.

[evdoho]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

Many here have reported much longer timeframes between allocation and production dates. Selected options play a role in that, with extra cost paint and full carbon packages frequently extending time between allocation and production.

These longer wait times are due to parts shortages, particularly the carbon package, and these delays are published by BMW NA.

The distribution of allocations and their intended production month, with very few exceptions like Alpina models, is always one month ahead of the scheduled production month.

Individual paint will also delay production, but it doesn’t change the timing of that allocation being assigned, it’s always one month ahead, then if the allocation is modified to include individual paint then the production week gets pushed back. Again this is not unpredictable as it is stated by BMW NA to delay your production.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

These aren’t iPhones we’re talking about. These are very expensive depreciating items that are held 3-4 years minimum and possibly longer.

You’re describing an iPhone…

We should use the same logic. The only difference is how comfortably one can afford a car or an iPhone.

Both products have similar development cycle strategies: LCI dates are well defined, new models are always being developed and released. In the case of the iPhone, yearly. At BMW, an LCI happens every 3 years.

My overall point is: you can wait until the next rumoured version comes out. But, just like an iPhone, as soon as the rumoured version is out, a new rumoured version (prototype) is already speeding down the Nurburgring and neighbourhoods in camouflage.

It sucks if you want the next best thing but can’t afford the depreciation (I’m in that bracket). So let’s find the car we love, and stick to it.

Do you love the 24, the 25, or love the idea of the LCI? Find out, and buy it, knowing it’ll be fresh for a year or 2 if you’re one of the first ones to get it.
Otherwise, lease it and swap it like an iPhone.

[Montaver]

Even though it will get an on paper bump I’m wondering if it it will really be any different, given the current G87 dynos the same as a manual M3/M4. New colors will be nice though, all the current options are pretty uninspiring. As someone who’s in the market to get one I’m not convinced waiting to MY25 is worth it but it’s certainly something to ponder.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

So will the CS be a MY25 or we’ll “see it in ‘25” as a MY26?

Isn’t it safe to say the CS will have whatever upgraded front-end or facelift changes the G87 is going to get? It’s like the CS is coming a year or two too early. Shouldn’t the Comp be next year instead?

Am I going to regret waiting on an MY25 when the LCI with new facelift etc could come as a MY26? BMW wouldn’t run a facelifted CS and a non-facelifted regular G87 in the same MY would they?

Gah - freakin’ rumors man. IMO, the F87 Comp facelift upgrade was such an improvement over the first F87 it was a night and day for me. I hope I won’t regret an MY25 purchase.

One could grow old and die crazy waiting for such future things…

These aren’t iPhones we’re talking about. These are very expensive depreciating items that are held 3-4 years minimum and possibly longer. Not to mention the thousands we’ll dump into them modding them.

CS first model year is 2025. A host of reliable sources have posted related articles with photos.

I'm planning on keeping mine much longer than "3 - 4 years."

No need to modify them, either. Cars are already insanely competent by anything remotely resembling street use. I'll be running mine 100% production line stock.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by lithe

Any new info on M2 possibly getting xDrive as an option?

I think it's long been rumored that a definitive announcement would be made this September. Holding off on finalizing my '25 order until then for that reason.

My friend is a GM at a BMW store & is at a meeting in Las Vegas this past week, he was also hoping to get more info regarding AWD option.

No X Drive on any 2025 model year M2, including CS.

Can get X Drive with M240, though (including current MY). I wouldn't want X Drive in these cars. More weight, compromised polar moment of inertia and weight distribution, added cost and complexity and possibly reduced fuel economy.

[lithe]

^^^Where do you get your info, if I may ask...

I ask because previously it was rumored a definitive announcement regarding AWD would not be made until September 2024...

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Even though it will get an on paper bump I’m wondering if it it will really be any different, given the current G87 dynos the same as a manual M3/M4. New colors will be nice though, all the current options are pretty uninspiring. As someone who’s in the market to get one I’m not convinced waiting to MY25 is worth it but it’s certainly something to ponder.

It's more than just an "on paper bump," as will be revealed when the 2025 models are formally announced. There will be an accompanying improvement in accelerative performance as well, with chassis dyno figures backing it.

Added information: In keeping with well established traditional under-rating, the +20 to +22 (depending on source) HP increase could well equate to + 25 to 30 SAE Net at the crank. In other words, they're likely under-rating the claimed power increase.

I placed an "order" (still awaiting allocation) for a new M2 10 days ago. May have gotten a '24 or '25 depending on production date. I contacted my salesperson last evening, told him to hold my allocation for a '25 model and he confirmed. I'm not going to spend money on a '24 knowing the the '25 will be more powerful (in real terms).

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by lithe

^^^Where do you get your info, if I may ask...

I ask because previously it was rumored a definitive announcement regarding AWD would not be made until September 2024...

Info all over the net on this from reliable third party sources plus some photos.

Also, a rumored can't be definite by definition.

Trust me, there will be no AWD options for any 2025 BMW M2 model.

I wouldn't even want AWD in this car. More weight, compromised weight distribution and polar moment of inertia, added cost and complexity.

X Drive adds 121 pounds to the current M240 cars; I'd expect a little more for the M2 as its engine produced more torque, meaning more robust components would likely need needed. https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/06/08/2...r-than-xdrive/