[Squidget]

Originally Posted by VehicleVirals

That would something wouldn't it. I was experiencing this issue before installing a single mod, but I don't expect them to believe that.

I'm making a note to self: Make sure there's not a single thing wrong before applying mods, or dealers will be bastards.

[VehicleVirals]

Uploaded a Youtube video with the issue and Dealer's response to all of it:

[Tag]

Originally Posted by VehicleVirals

Uploaded a Youtube video with the issue and Dealer's response to all of it:

I don't get why you didn't try taking it to a more friendly dealership than tearing your car apart. The tech you had was the type I steer clear from, full of excuses on why they can't do anything.

[baron95]

Regarding the brake squealing/noise and differences between G80/82 and G87, a few points that may shed some light.

1 - I remember APEX themselves noted very heavy brake squealing when installing their forged wheels (no spacers). The hardness difference in the materials caused the resonance and the squealing/noise. I think they are recommending some mating spacers.

[CORRECTION: APEX was talking about "pinging" noises due to the wheel hardness, not squeal. Apologies fox mixing the two. Same principle may be applicable to squealing]

So, bottom line is that adding spacers and or different wheels CAN cause squealing.

2 - Now, remember that the G80/82 have flow formed "forged" wheels. The G87 has cast wheels. Different hardness.

So even if the brake/pads/suspension is that same, the G87 may have more squeal or less squeal than the G80/82. In fact, it may vary by pad size.

So, net/net, break squeal is all about vibrations and resonance. Any change to pad material, rotor hardness, spacers, wheel hardness and resonant frequency, etc can increase or decrease squeal.

Just keep that in mind.

AND

Don't listen to those who categorically affirm that spacers can not cause squeal. Listen to Apex. They came forward, to their credit (sign of a great company) and admitted that their wheel material was causing squeal.

[JamnF87]

Originally Posted by VehicleVirals

Uploaded a Youtube video with the issue and Dealer's response to all of it:

If you're so certain it's the brakes, then swap out the rotors and pads - seems like that would have been far easier than removing your suspension, strut bars, spacers and studs. Can't really blame the dealership for their position with your aftermarket parts, they have no idea if they were installed properly.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by JamnF87

If you're so certain it's the brakes, then swap out the rotors and pads - seems like that would have been far easier than removing your suspension, strut bars, spacers and studs. Can't really blame the dealership for their position with your aftermarket parts, they have no idea if they were installed properly.

They have no obligation to honor the warranty either. That applies to the car produced by BMW, not one modified by an owner. Going to a dealer with mods is always a risk.

[TheDrivenGarage]

You may not want to keep taking apart your car since brakes and rotors are considered wear items, and not covered by the maintenance agreement and unless a defect from manufacture can be found, it would be on you for the brake job anyway. It will now be hard to convince any dealer that it was there from pick up when you have a few k miles on the car and now documented mods (I am assuming your SA has been writing this down all in your service tickef).

So bite the bullet and take it to any Indy and see what they find. Now this does make good content, so if you want to string it out, you can keep dancing with BMW. But do try and keep it fair, because you have modded around the area that you are having problems, so I don't think it's unreasonable for them to say "hey we dont know what you did and how you did it, so take your car back to stock and we can look at it."

Regardless thanks for the heads up. Definitely something to watch. My 2024 G83 squeals from new but no vibration or rumbling. My incoming M2 will have M Performance HAS porr installed to avoid the drama, and I won't do any mods for a few k miles at least to shake down the car.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Tag

I don't get why you didn't try taking it to a more friendly dealership than tearing your car apart. The tech you had was the type I steer clear from, full of excuses on why they can't do anything.

Probably not the dealer's fault it can't proceed. BMW I suspect has pretty strict guidelines on warranty work on mod'd cars.

One can argue that in this case the odds are high the mods are not the cause of the behavior but the factory doesn't want to have to evaluate all the permutations of mods owners make when the owner brings in a car for possible warranty work.

So the factory says Nein! to any mods. And will not authorize a dealer/tech to move forward on diagnosing the problem. If the dealer does proceed it does so with the risk the factory may not reimburse it for any work it does.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Probably not the dealer's fault it can't proceed. BMW I suspect has pretty strict guidelines on warranty work on mod'd cars.

One can argue that in this case the odds are high the mods are not the cause of the behavior but the factory doesn't want to have to evaluate all the permutations of mods owners make when the owner brings in a car for possible warranty work.

So the factory says Nein! to any mods. And will not authorize a dealer/tech to move forward on diagnosing the problem. If the dealer does proceed it does so with the risk the factory may not reimburse it for any work it does.

I don't disagree with your premise but there are dealerships and techs that are more willing to diagnose the problem even with mods. They literally don't even need to tell BMW the car has mods on it, it's at their discretion. If they need replacement parts and work to be done, then that's a different matter.

Over the years I've had dealerships and techs that literally didn't care what mods were on the car and ones like the OP is dealing with that wouldn't even give me the time of day just because I had aftermarket wheels on. That's why you should always try another dealership, YMMV.

[Lappy]

Originally Posted by baron95

Regarding the brake squealing/noise and differences between G80/82 and G87, a few points that may shed some light.

1 - I remember APEX themselves noted very heavy brake squealing when installing their forged wheels (no spacers). The hardness difference in the materials caused the resonance and the squealing/noise. I think they are recommending some mating spacers.

So, bottom line is that adding spacers and or different wheels CAN cause squealing.

2 - Now, remember that the G80/82 have flow formed "forged" wheels. The G87 has cast wheels. Different hardness.

So even if the brake/pads/suspension is that same, the G87 may have more squeal or less squeal than the G80/82. In fact, it may vary by pad size.

So, net/net, break squeal is all about vibrations and resonance. Any change to pad material, rotor hardness, spacers, wheel hardness and resonant frequency, etc can increase or decrease squeal.

Just keep that in mind.

AND

Don't listen to those who categorically affirm that spacers can not cause squeal. Listen to Apex. They came forward, to their credit (sign of a great company) and admitted that their wheel material was causing squeal.

Can you link where Apex stated this?

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Can you link where Apex stated this?

Hey guys - I may have misspoken here. APEX was addressing noises caused by the forged wheels, but they were the pinging noises. And the recommended solution is a friction ring (I believe copper, but don't remember the details).

Someone else, *not* APEX, told me separately that they had brake noise developed or intensified after putting on forged wheel.

I joined the two in my head - sorry about that. I still think there is a possible connection as pad/rotor/spacer/wheel are all a single resonant system.

The thread on the "pinging" issue with forged wheels are all over Bimmerpost. Quick search took me to the one below, but may not be the original one.

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2023710

[KillerExcessive]

For those of you who want to see some data on brake noise, here it is: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1951416

For anyone who has not experienced screeching brake noise, it's impossible to fathom what people are on about. For those who have, I feel for you.

Both of my F87 and G82 (purchased new, 2 YEARS apart) screeched like school buses. None of my other BMWs owned previously had ANY brake noise. Before anybody starts making suggestions on remedies that I should have tried, I've tried everything under the sun that I could find on the internet.

To OP, my G82 also developed the exact brake judder you have after 3000 miles. That was the last straw for me. Some people will do the back and forth dance with BMW to get it fixed. For me, this was beyond of the limit of tolerance for an expensive product.

I'm just glad that I didn't lose my shirt selling due to elevated COVID values.

I'm still on this forum because I've been passionate about BMWs for decades, and obviously I've had some very good times with past products. But I will hesitate to purchase anything else because of two failed products in a row.

[baron95]

I guess in the interest of accurately portraying BMW's position on M Compound brake noise, I will share the Service Information Bulletin that BMW filed with NTSA and distributed to all US dealers.

In this PDF, they go into detail as to their view on the different brake noises and corrective action. They even have sample sound files for each noise type.

Anyway, not saying they are right or wrong, just sharing their official position.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...69460-9999.pdf

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by baron95

I guess in the interest of accurately portraying BMW's position on M Compound brake noise, I will share the Service Information Bulletin that BMW filed with NTSA and distributed to all US dealers.

In this PDF, they call into detail as to their view on the different brake noises and corrective action. They even have sample sound files for each noise type.

Anyway, not saying they are right or wrong, just sharing their official position.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...69460-9999.pdf

A nice reference!

Ive never had an issue with any M brakes in the past.

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by baron95

I guess in the interest of accurately portraying BMW's position on M Compound brake noise, I will share the Service Information Bulletin that BMW filed with NTSA and distributed to all US dealers.

In this PDF, they go into detail as to their view on the different brake noises and corrective action. They even have sample sound files for each noise type.

Anyway, not saying they are right or wrong, just sharing their official position.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...69460-9999.pdf

So, it could be worse - seems the carbon brakes honk. Ours just squeak.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Chet for short

So, it could be worse - seems the carbon brakes honk. Ours just squeak.

The honking is a feature. That is how BMW justifies $8K in carbon brakes.

If someone cuts in front of you and/or you have to use the brakes, they automatically "honk".

[JamnF87]

Originally Posted by baron95

The honking is a feature. That is how BMW justifies $8K in carbon brakes.

If someone cuts in front of you and/or you have to use the brakes, they automatically "honk".

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Tag

I don't disagree with your premise but there are dealerships and techs that are more willing to diagnose the problem even with mods. They literally don't even need to tell BMW the car has mods on it, it's at their discretion. If they need replacement parts and work to be done, then that's a different matter.

Over the years I've had dealerships and techs that literally didn't care what mods were on the car and ones like the OP is dealing with that wouldn't even give me the time of day just because I had aftermarket wheels on. That's why you should always try another dealership, YMMV.

Yes, I have read posts by owners of cars -- other brands but I'm sure as my time in the BMW community increases I'll encounter similar posts from BMW owners -- which have reported long story short mods are ignored. Not all mods of course but I don't remember the mod details. I dare say the most extreme ones were less likely to be ignored.

But less extreme mods like tires, wheels, moderate suspension mods, intake and exhaust mods. To some extent it depends upon the mod and the complaint. No doubt the above applies to BMWs, too.

The dealer probably has some discretion. But if the investigation leads to a warranty claim not sure how much discretion the dealer has. At some point I think the factory's going to ask about mods or require pictures of in this context the wheel/tire/brake assembly. Then the dealer has to come clean and then the cat is out of the bag.

If one runs into resistance due to the presence of mods trying another dealer is an option. In some cases. When I lived/worked in the SF Bay Area I had a number of dealers (various brands of cars I owned over the years there) available. But where I live now -- Benton County AR -- I have just one BMW dealer. The next nearest one is 187 miles away.

Understand I have some sympathy for those that are having issues and with mods -- and not extreme ones -- running into resistance when trying to get the issue diagnosed and ultimately fixed. But bottom line is a car owner is rolling the dice when it comes to mod'ing a new car a car under warranty.

[tracer bullet]

I haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll mention it. In my experience squealing tends to come from either 1) too aggressive a pad for the situation, or 2) not aggressive enough use of the pads.

You can't baby aggressive brake pads. If you do a lot of light stops, i.e. in-town driving, you should also find the time to occasionally do some aggressive stops as well. And don't expect a quiet brake pad that's also aggressive, these aren't Forester's, they're M2's. Quiet / noise / dust are all sort of a balancing act.

If you have squealing or are feeling it in the steering wheel (uneven pad deposits on the rotors), read up on brake bed-in procedures and give them a try. I've seen that solve the issue so many times in real life and after being suggested on forums. It's free to try, and won't hurt anything.

Also if you clean your car all the time, and are using products like Sonax and such to get brake dust off the wheels, use some caution with it on the rotors. You might remove a beneficial layer on the rotor, and even do so unevenly.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by VehicleVirals

That would something wouldn't it. I was experiencing this issue before installing a single mod, but I don't expect them to believe that.

I just watched your video.
The car shakes as if it’s stalling, you said.
You said you had this issue before modifying the car.
Why didn’t you take it to the dealer before?

[VehicleVirals]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I just watched your video.
The car shakes as if it’s stalling, you said.
You said you had this issue before modifying the car.
Why didn’t you take it to the dealer before?

I pinned a comment that explains why.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

YBut bottom line is a car owner is rolling the dice when it comes to mod'ing a new car a car under warranty.

Well said above^^^^^^^^^^^^

Under warranty. You paid all this money lol. And take a risk of losing it for what - no track days, but better sound or what, lowering a suspension that works just fine - Try driving the car they built for a couple years then mod. Sure its your money but dont make shitey video's about something that the dealer has zero liability for or BMW for that matter.