[Spydert]

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I was playing around the BMW website today (dangerous pastime), and I stumbled on this info under Specifications for the new M2:

Tire / Type
All-season run-flat tires

Wheel Dimensions (in)
19 x 8.0 front | 19 x 8.0 rear

Tire Dimensions (mm)
225/40 front | 225/40 rear

This must all be wrong right?
Cos the M2 is coming with staggered, summer performance tires - right?

[Caerus]

Good catch. The website is incorrect. The pricing guide is correct though.

[T_U_D]

Sadly it is fairly normal to see discrepancies on the BMW USA website.

[Tag]

Tires
Front 275/35 ZR19
Rear 285/30 ZR20

Wheels
Front 9.5" x 19"
Rear 10.5" x 20"

BMW M2 - Specifications

[VIERsr]

These are the tires available. Surprised to see the P Zero Corsa.

https://www.bmw.ch/content/dam/bmw/c...5411656095.pdf

[zero21]

I saw a 2023 M4 Comp Conv in the dealership wearing same size tires as G87 but slightly different wheels. Front to rear, there is so much more meat with the 275/35 than the 285/30. They were Pirelli P Zero.

Is anyone else thinking 19x10-10.5 rear in 285/35 might be a better choice?

[Game]

Praying I get Michelins.

[aerobod]

Seems like in North America a lot of preference for Michelin vs Pirelli is based on not comparing like with like and being aware of the full range available. I've had a lot of good and bad Michelin tyres and a lot of good and bad Pirelli tyres. A standard P-Zero is not the same as a P-Zero Corsa which is not the same as a P-Zero Trofeo R, same as a Pilot Primacy is not the same as a Pilot Sport 4S which is not the same as a Pilot Sport Cup 2.

I've found the Pilot Super Sport in the past to be a poor track day tyre, but good for 3-seasons road use, the P-Zero Corsa and Cup 2 would obviously be better choices for track days and a non-road-legal tyre which is still my favourite track day tyre is the Pirelli DM slick.

I've also had better experience with Pirelli Sottozero 2 & 3 tyres over Michelin PA 3 winter tyres in terms of both grip and handling in winter conditions.

Overall Pirelli and Michelin both have good tyres in lots of different classes, I don't think a general statement that one manufacturers tyre over the other is any better is valid, it depends on individual tyre comparisons in a given class.

[GrannyShiftG80]

Fuck not Pirelli please give me Michelin

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Seems like in North America a lot of preference for Michelin vs Pirelli is based on not comparing like with like and being aware of the full range available. I've had a lot of good and bad Michelin tyres and a lot of good and bad Pirelli tyres. A standard P-Zero is not the same as a P-Zero Corsa which is not the same as a P-Zero Trofeo R, same as a Pilot Primacy is not the same as a Pilot Sport 4S which is not the same as a Pilot Sport Cup 2.

I've found the Pilot Super Sport in the past to be a poor track day tyre, but good for 3-seasons road use, the P-Zero Corsa and Cup 2 would obviously be better choices for track days and a non-road-legal tyre which is still my favourite track day tyre is the Pirelli DM slick.

I've also had better experience with Pirelli Sottozero 2 & 3 tyres over Michelin PA 3 winter tyres in terms of both grip and handling in winter conditions.

Overall Pirelli and Michelin both have good tyres in lots of different classes, I don't think a general statement that one manufacturers tyre over the other is any better is valid, it depends on individual tyre comparisons in a given class.

True, you have to compare tires belonging to the same class.
That said, I found the 4S much superior to the PZ4 and the PA4 much better than the Sottozero 3 (especially on wet), and we can say that all these tires belong to the same class and era.
I cannot speak for the other tires mentioned, but if I could choose tires for the M2, I would choose Michelin every day and every night.
It is also important to mention the specific compound, the Porsche NA P Zeros are nothing like the regular P Zeros, just like the Bmw's starred Michelin's perform better than the regular Michelin's.
When I had the 1M my father had a Cayman S, both cars with Michelin PS2s but one NA and the other normal (I don't remember if starred or not but it doesn't matter), and despite the greater weight and torque of my 1M and a couple of trackdays, my tires lasted 50% longer, but the grip was also significantly less.

[KevinC]

"All-season run-flat tires"

If BMW ever puts these turds on an M car, they're out of their freaking minds.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

True, you have to compare tires belonging to the same class.
That said, I found the 4S much superior to the PZ4 and the PA4 much better than the Sottozero 3 (especially on wet), and we can say that all these tires belong to the same class and era.
I cannot speak for the other tires mentioned, but if I could choose tires for the M2, I would choose Michelin every day and every night.
It is also important to mention the specific compound, the Porsche NA P Zeros are nothing like the regular P Zeros, just like the Bmw's starred Michelin's perform better than the regular Michelin's.
When I had the 1M my father had a Cayman S, both cars with Michelin PS2s but one NA and the other normal (I don't remember if starred or not but it doesn't matter), and despite the greater weight and torque of my 1M and a couple of trackdays, my tires lasted 50% longer, but the grip was also significantly less.

It is interesting that the Tirerack latest summer tyre tests found the P-Zero PZ4 somewhat better than the PS4S in wet conditions and a higher quantitative rating overall, indicating wet grip as the MP4S's weak spot. From initial tests it sounds like the PS5 has lost some dry grip to improve the wet grip, becoming more like the PZ4; https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=269

I would say for the max performance summer tyres wet grip should be a major consideration for use in all-round conditions, as if dry grip is the focus an Extreme performance or road-legal R-compound tyre would be a better choice. I've found the Max performance tyre class (Michelin or other manufacturers I've tried) doesn't do well on the track, going off after a few hot laps, followed by tread chunking if you keep pressing once the tyre has gone "greasy". The tyre also needs to be matched to the car, for example the Pilot Sports have not done well when used on Caterhams in the past, gaining the nickname "Michelin Pile-up" in the community due to the poor match.

With the Sottozero 3 tyres, there is a sub-class due to different rubber compounds, so the "W" or "V" rated tyres have better handling than the "H" rated ones. The "H" rated ones are much closer to the Michelin Xi3 in snow and ice grip, but far superior in wet and dry grip and handling. The higher speed rated tyres are closer to the PA tyres. With winter tyres it depends on the most prevalent winter conditions encountered, I have found the Sottozeros to be more suited to -35 to -20C conditions that we often see here than the PAs. Also, the Sottozero range of sizes is generally better than the PAs, for example, there is no Porscehe N0 rated tyre for our Macan S in the PA range, only in the Sottozero range.

Overall as I said before there is no magic tyre from either Michelin or Pirelli, they both have good and bad ones. The supercar manufacturers tend to use the P-Zero Corsa and Trofeo more than any other tyre and also have the most exacting needs for summer tyres.

[VIERsr]

I would not talk about supercar tires, because then the tires are developed specifically for that model, and sometimes they are the result of commercial/political agreements anyway, just think of the terrible Dunlop Sport Maxx Race on the 991.1 GT3, hated by all owners and immediately replaced by Michelin SC2s.
The Sottozero 3 is one of the most unsafe tires I have ever driven in my life, I don't remember the speed rating as it wasn't my car but it was a terrible experience.
And apparently I'm not the only one who feels that way, it's good that replacement is finally here.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Pir...ottozero-3.htm
It is widely believed that on the M3/4 the Michelin's work so much better than the Pirelli's that everyone wants to win the tire lottery (-> get the Michelin's), and in fact many reviews confirm this (actually, many compare PZ4 with PS4, not 4S).

[GrannyShiftG80]

Michelin is just far superior to Pirelli there's no question

If I get Pirelli's I'm going to do burnouts until I can replace them with Michelin's

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I would not talk about supercar tires, because then the tires are developed specifically for that model, and sometimes they are the result of commercial/political agreements anyway, just think of the terrible Dunlop Sport Maxx Race on the 991.1 GT3, hated by all owners and immediately replaced by Michelin SC2s.
The Sottozero 3 is one of the most unsafe tires I have ever driven in my life, I don't remember the speed rating as it wasn't my car but it was a terrible experience.
And apparently I'm not the only one who feels that way, it's good that replacement is finally here.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Pir...ottozero-3.htm
It is widely believed that on the M3/4 the Michelin's work so much better than the Pirelli's that everyone wants to win the tire lottery (-> get the Michelin's), and in fact many reviews confirm this (actually, many compare PZ4 with PS4, not 4S).

I'd have to know a lot more about the Sottozero's that you sampled (tread depth, pressure specific model, type of winter conditions, etc), but it sounds like my 10 or so sets (Serie II and 3, compared with the 3 sets of PA2/3) I have had on various VW, Porsche and BMWs over about 250,000km of use is a bit more extensive experience. For the conditions we have in the Canadian Rockies, I haven't found a better all round winter tyre for more performance orientated cars. If you are driving more on wet and warm or dry roads compared with cold and snowy roads, then they may not be the ideal tyre. The PAs were OK as have been the Dunlop 3Ds in the past, but both were not as grippy below -20C compared with the Sottozeros.

On the M2 I'm fine either of the Pirelli PZ4 or Michelin PS4S offerings, but likely will replace them with a better gripping Extreme performance tyre after wearing them out, depending on what is available at the time, if it was now most likely the RE-71RS.

[VIERsr]

I have no idea how the tire would behave at -20°, I have never driven in such extreme conditions but in our winter temperatures (0-10°C) it is a poor tire as all reviews have shown.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I have no idea how the tire would behave at -20°, I have never driven in such extreme conditions but in our winter temperatures (0-10°C) it is a poor tire as all reviews have shown.

As reviews have shown, it is a good tyre in snow grip as a more aggressive performance winter tyre (especially the “H” speed rated version) than a PA4 or 5, which are more comparable with all-weather tyres than winter tyres in true winter conditions where the roads are snow or ice covered (as are the Sottozero Serie II vs the 3).

The premise is that both Pirelli and Michelin make good tyres and tyres that are not the right ones for the conditions encountered, so will not perform well in those conditions. That being said, so do other tyre manufacturers produce some excellent tyres, too.

[VIERsr]

It is implied that when we talk about Pirelli or Michelin with regard to the G8x, the statement refers only to the 2 tires available for this model (PZ4 and PS4S), not to the entire range of tires of both brands.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

It is implied that when we talk about Pirelli or Michelin with regard to the G8x, the statement refers only to the 2 tires available for this model (PZ4 and PS4S), not to the entire range of tires of both brands.

Yes, getting back to the subject of PZ4 vs PS4S, from quantitative testing last year, there isn't much in it, PS4S is slightly better in most dry conditions other than dry braking, PZ4 is slightly better in most wet conditions other than wet braking. In this test the PZ4 ended up with a slightly higher rating than the PS4S overall, both ahead of the Potenza Sport and Extreme Contact Sport (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...jsp?ttid=269):