[apez]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

When you are pushing the car that redline lag is a huge irritation, of which did not exist with M-DCT. Many chose manual because at least 6MT lets you dictate when the shifts happen, and you can still shift very fast depending on your skill level.

I am sure it is better in the G87, but in the G42 the lag at the top is intolerable. Led to me just relying on the automatic while autocrossing and ordering a G87 6MT.

[VIERsr]

You cannot expect from a torque converter the behaviour of a double clutch (and vice versa), it is just a different technology.
There is no better or worse, like iOS or Android, turbo or NA, 2WD or 4WD, just be aware of what you are buying so you are not disappointed.
But if you expect a torque converter to behave like a DCT (or a turbo like a NA), your approach is wrong, not the gearbox (or the engine).
The ZF8 performs very well for an automatic gearbox and it suits the S58 perfectly, but it cannot by its very nature be a dual clutch, take it and appreciate what it can do, do not ask it for what it is not supposed to be.

[DeadlyDrop]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

You cannot expect from a torque converter the behaviour of a double clutch (and vice versa), it is just a different technology.
There is no better or worse, like iOS or Android, turbo or NA, 2WD or 4WD, just be aware of what you are buying so you are not disappointed.
But if you expect a torque converter to behave like a DCT (or a turbo like a NA), your approach is wrong, not the gearbox (or the engine).
The ZF8 performs very well for an automatic gearbox and it suits the S58 perfectly, but it cannot by its very nature be a dual clutch, take it and appreciate what it can do, do not ask it for what it is not supposed to be.

I am genuinely curious, is delayed shifting under load is the characteristic of torque converter? for example like creeping in auto car?

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by apez

I am sure it is better in the G87, but in the G42 the lag at the top is intolerable. Led to me just relying on the automatic while autocrossing and ordering a G87 6MT.

I have never been happy with any traditional automatic thus ordered another manual car. The only auto that I am happy about is my Tesla M3 since it's a one speed auto and doesn't have to shift.

[dmr]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDrop

I am genuinely curious, is delayed shifting under load is the characteristic of torque converter? for example like creeping in auto car?

This has only happened when hitting red line for me. There seems to be a huge penalty if you don't shift ahead of it, but the shifts are pretty snappy otherwise.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by discreet_mayor

This has only happened when hitting red line for me. There seems to be a huge penalty if you don't shift ahead of it, but the shifts are pretty snappy otherwise.

It's a weird phenomenon, there's no mechanical reason (AFAIK) a torque convertor should have trouble shifting near redline.

But I haven't daily driven an automatic since 1993, so what do I know?

[dmr]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a weird phenomenon, there's no mechanical reason (AFAIK) a torque convertor should have trouble shifting near redline.

But I haven't daily driven an automatic since 1993, so what do I know?

Given how the transmission behaves otherwise, it feels more like a software thing while you're hitting the rev limiter... I dunno, not really a biggie, it's pretty easy to work around.

[1stM]

Sounded like fuel cutoff when hitting redline.

[Sherlock997]

I noticed this as well when I drove a G80 M3 Comp but it only happened near redline, it's like the car just gets confused and has to think for a moment. What's crazy to me is that it doesn't happen in my F22 M240i with the ZF8. Everywhere else the G80 was way more responsive and snappier. But like others have said it's still not quite as good as a DCT.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a weird phenomenon, there's no mechanical reason (AFAIK) a torque convertor should have trouble shifting near redline.

But I haven't daily driven an automatic since 1993, so what do I know?

Actually there is. I think one of the engineers posted a while back that oil cavitation happens at 7200-7300rpm for the ZF8 gearbox, so that's why they cannot push the redline further to 7600 rpm like they did with S55 & M-DCT.

Getrag DCT on the other hand is rated for 9,000 rpm, proven its stability at high rpm on multiple Ferrari and past M platforms.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

You cannot expect from a torque converter the behaviour of a double clutch (and vice versa), it is just a different technology.
There is no better or worse, like iOS or Android, turbo or NA, 2WD or 4WD, just be aware of what you are buying so you are not disappointed.
But if you expect a torque converter to behave like a DCT (or a turbo like a NA), your approach is wrong, not the gearbox (or the engine).
The ZF8 performs very well for an automatic gearbox and it suits the S58 perfectly, but it cannot by its very nature be a dual clutch, take it and appreciate what it can do, do not ask it for what it is not supposed to be.

Well if enough people complain then who knows? Can't imagine many people being attracted to ZF8-only future lineups, when MTs are gone.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Well if enough people complain then who knows? Can't imagine many people being attracted to ZF8-only future lineups, when MTs are gone.

People got used to turbocharged M engines and water-cooled 911s since they were the only option available, if one day the only option is ZF8 (and the alternative is an EV without a transmission), we will accept that too

[Chris13002]

Originally Posted by discreet_mayor

I've searched here and through Google, didn't really find anyone else reporting a similar issue.

Under normal driving conditions, I find upshifts to happen pretty quickly.

But with WOT, it seems there is a longer delay, somehow? The shift lights activate, I shift just before I run out of RPMs ...and it feels like it takes almost a second for the shift to happen. The whole thing feels like I would need to shift a lot sooner than necessary.

Have others experienced something similar?

I just watched this video here to confirm this around the 2:40 mark.

[yuzu]

Originally Posted by Chris13002

I just watched this video here to confirm this around the 2:40 mark.

WOW that looks and sounds terrible coming out of first lol

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Chris13002

I just watched this video here to confirm this around the 2:40 mark.

He hit the rev-limiter in 1st gear (it is a 'soft' limiter), in which case the delay is HUGE, just before the rev-limiter the delay is noticeable and annoying but not that big.

[baron95]

Luckly very few tracks use 1st gear (other than out of the pits), so I don't care.

But, yes, I have tracked other ZF8 cars and found that:

1 - Shifts always seem/feel slower in manual mode (which is what I normally use) vs auto.

2 - Under heavy load shifts are always slower than a no load flick on the street.

3 - Shifts are slower at the top end than at mid-low end of the rev range.

4 - It sucks when you mistime it and near the limiter.

On the M2, there is probably not much to be gained from shifting at say 6,800 vs 7,000. So I plan to pull the cord early.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Chris13002

I just watched this video here to confirm this around the 2:40 mark.

Besides I believe bumping up against the rev limiter I believe the transmission was shifting "slow" as that was the learned behavior.

For drag racing it is advised to make the 1st pass for the (automatic) so it ditches the around town shift map and adapts a more aggressive map.

As the video progressed shifts appeared to happen much quicker which is what would be expected with a change in driving behavior.

I have no experience with an M2 automatic but with other automatics including the one in my Dodge Challenger Hellcat the transmission shifted PDQ in automatic or manual mode. But with the Hellcat and how quick the engine gained RPMs more than once in manual mode the engine RPMs would be at red line before I pulled the paddle to shift. I never drag raced the car but the word was to move the shift level to the manual shift mode position and put the transmission in 2nd gear to launch. Upon launch move the shift lever back to automatic mode and let the transmission handle up shifts. It will up shift just short of hitting the rev limiter.