[Squidget]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Yes only the 'enthusiasts' with manuals enjoy cars and driving lol.

An 'enthusiast' is not defined by their gearbox. We are all driving and enjoying what cars bring us.

The 'toxic-purist' enthusiasts complaining constantly are ruining being an 'enthusiast' on most magazines and forums. Well done!

Oh you own a manual. Good for you. Was your choice. Just like the auto was for others - yet we enjoy our cars as much.

I'm a huge MT enthusiast, and I totally agree. As soon as you start gatekeeping other people, it's not cool.

I'm not gonna go tell Jackie Ding that he's not an enthusiast lol.

You like what you like, other people can like other things. It can really be as simple as that.

[KCuv]

Originally Posted by GT3M2

Times are a changing.

Auto is faster in the hands of professionals, if you like to drive quickly it’s more fun with paddles.

Gearing on the manual sucks. GT4 plagued with same issue.

-GT3M2

Times are changing, yes. Autos on the track often times are faster, yes.

In no world is it more fun. I’ll take a “slower” car any day, for a 3rd pedal.

This is exactly why many people have ZERO interest in RS pcars & comp mcars. They’re boring.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by KCuv

Times are changing, yes. Autos on the track often times are faster, yes.

In no world is it more fun. I’ll take a “slower” car any day, for a 3rd pedal.

This is exactly why many people have ZERO interest in RS pcars & comp mcars. They’re boring.

This is very generalizing, I think there are different cars for different purposes. I havey manual m2 for pure fun, but I hope my m2c on order won't be boring, but it will be for a different purpose.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by rcouchh

Hard disagree. Idk if you've driven older manuals, but modern BMWs (F8X and G8x) are by far the easiest manuals I've ever driven. They are EXTREMELY forgiving, have throttle assists that make it near impossible to stall, and things like auto rev matching. I've taught multiple people how to drive stick in my F87 and they thought it was significantly easier than other cars they had attempted in.

How is it not an 'easy' car to drive? It literally could not get any easier.

Driven manual equipped cars since 1972. But not counting my 2 manual equipped MINI JCWs the M2 is the first manual equipped BMW I've driven. So I don't know how the M2 compares to other BMWs with manuals.

But compared to other manual equipped cars I have driven: Mustang, Camaro, Boxster, VW Golf, GTO, Cayman S, 996 Turbo, JCW, and Challenger; just seems to me the M2 requires a bit more attention to up shift smoothly especially the 1st to 2nd shift. But other up shifts are a bit less demanding.

Down shifts with the built in rev matching certainly take the drama out of down shifts. (My JCW only rev matches on downshifts if I have it in sport mode.)

I admit part of the problem could be with me in that I don't drive nearly as much as I used to -- before I retired I had a 60 mile per day commute (part of this into the SF Bay Area) -- and now my "daily" is my JCW. So driving the JCW over a span of say 3 or 4 days then switching to the M2 the M2 requires, well, a reset of my driving technique and taking a bit more care as I re-acquaint myself with the M2 after not driving it for a while.

Don't get me wrong. I really like the M2 and my experience with its shifting is not a complaint just intended as an observation.

[GT3M2]

[QUOTE=KCuv;30390012]

This is exactly why many people have ZERO interest in RS pcars & comp mcars. They’re boring.

Well this is a hot take, conversely if you feel you need to be rowing gears to have fun driving you’re probably not a very talented driver.

To drive a gt3rs or an m car at 8/9 10ths having to change gears manually is not only slower in terms of lap times but it’s the dynamics of how the car behaves( handling) during up and downshifts rather than the time gained between gears that is the biggest strength.

If people wanted a pure mechanical driving experience they would own an e46 or a s2k or a Lotus Elise imho. The m2 is a powerful, grippy, compact luxury performance car.

I have never had a student come out of a pdk 911 gt3 complain about lack of fun or involvement.

-GT3M2

[KCuv]

[QUOTE=GT3M2;30390535]

Originally Posted by KCuv

This is exactly why many people have ZERO interest in RS pcars & comp mcars. They’re boring.

Well this is a hot take, conversely if you feel you need to be rowing gears to have fun driving you’re probably not a very talented driver.

To drive a gt3rs or an m car at 8/9 10ths having to change gears manually is not only slower in terms of lap times but it’s the dynamics of how the car behaves( handling) during up and downshifts rather than the time gained between gears that is the biggest strength.

If people wanted a pure mechanical driving experience they would own an e46 or a s2k or a Lotus Elise imho. The m2 is a powerful, grippy, compact luxury performance car.

I have never had a student come out of a pdk 911 gt3 complain about lack of fun or involvement.

-GT3M2

definitely a hot take. I have friends that drive non comp m3s as a daily, and a non RS gt3 as their second car that could afford whichever, simply because..having a high performance fun car that your grandma could hop in and drive is literally just not as fun, not as involved, not as rewarding, and having that preference meaning you're not as talented of a driver is kind of absurd. its insane on a car enthusiast forum that this is even a conversation lol. it sounds like a coping mechanism to justify your less desirable, faster appreciating, less fun car, to be completely honest.

I hope everyone keeps ordering vanilla non-carbon AT cars because its only making mine worth more money.

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by KCuv

definitely a hot take. I have friends that drive non comp m3s as a daily, and a non RS gt3 as their second car that could afford whichever, simply because..having a high performance fun car that your grandma could hop in and drive is literally just not as fun, not as involved, not as rewarding, and having that preference meaning you're not as talented of a driver is kind of absurd. its insane on a car enthusiast forum that this is even a conversation lol. it sounds like a coping mechanism to justify your less desirable, faster appreciating, less fun car, to be completely honest.

I hope everyone keeps ordering vanilla non-carbon AT cars because its only making mine worth more money.

Again everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think that it takes a skilled driver driving a car very close to the limit to appreciate what it adds to enjoyment.

You probably just aren’t there yet.

After you’ve raced wheel to wheel with a manual car, the “joy” of manual shifting on the street is really not all that special.

-GT3M2

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by KCuv

definitely a hot take.

I hope everyone keeps ordering vanilla non-carbon AT cars because its only making mine worth more money.

I’m sure your grandma could do this because it’s pdk…. grandma drivable car

See, that’s what you’re not understanding, it gets to a point where you simply cannot do in a manual car what you can in a sequential/auto one.

-GT3M2

[KCuv]

It’s not a matter of understanding - it’s what’s more enjoyable. An M2 is not a track prepped Porsche cup car that is trailered to events. It’s a relatively inexpensive fun daily. Autos on the street simply are not fun. I’ve driven several turbo PDK cars- you do one launch control, you smack paddles around for a couple shifts, you put it in auto and yawn and sip a coffee. Get a camry for that.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by KCuv

Autos on the street simply are not fun.

For you...

[ChiTownM]

My e92 is a DCT and I have lots of fun with the car, actually feel it is the better trans for the V8 RPM rage. I did also drive a manual to compare. My M2CS is manual and I have not driven the DCT version and could see that being fun too. The manual is fun and different than the M3 since it is a turbo and easier to drive “lazy” with the manual. I have not driven the new M2, nor sat in it - just saw it at the dealer.

I am not considering myself a purist or enthusiast I just like to have fun with cars and the community.

[Bumpinjeep]

With the car being so new and the majority of them that are out there being HEA cars, logically the ones being sold are probably HEA cars. Meaning, people most likely placed the order they wanted and purchased an HEA car above MSRP and now their order is coming up so they are selling the BMW specced car.

Originally Posted by GT3M2

I think a lot of people are realizing the car is actually more fun now with the auto tbh.
GT3M2

You know which car is even more fun and right up your alley? A Tesla! You're gonna love it because they are super fast and you don't even have to put it in drive so there's even less things to do. Some times it even drives itself so that's perfect for you. I suggest going to a Tesla forum if there is one and letting them know how truly awesome that vehicle is.
This forum is so lame because its full of people that like to do weird shit in their cars like drive them properly.

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by KCuv

It’s not a matter of understanding - it’s what’s more enjoyable. An M2 is not a track prepped Porsche cup car that is trailered to events. It’s a relatively inexpensive fun daily. Autos on the street simply are not fun. I’ve driven several turbo PDK cars- you do one launch control, you smack paddles around for a couple shifts, you put it in auto and yawn and sip a coffee. Get a camry for that.

You are not the one who decides what is more enjoyable, the individual is who chooses what they do and don’t enjoy.

Most people buy the m2 because they are performance car and or performance driving enthusiasts.

For what it’s worth I’ve seen plenty of videos of M2’s hassling track prepped gt3’s around race tracks and I can tell you they are absolutely on the same page.

Hence, my user name…

I have spent a lot of time behind the wheel and instructing in pdk gt3’s and I never once had a client or customer complain about the lack of manual box, quite the opposite, when you actually are using all of your talent to steer, brake, turn, and accelerate the car, the paddles add to the experience.

If you want me to believe you that manuals are more fun show me a video of you driving a manual car on track at speed on the limit and I’ll believe you, until then you’re just fast enough to appreciate the benefit.

-GT3M2

[KCuv]

again - the majority of M2 buyers aren't in cup car series - so to post a video of doing a track day that might be done once a year is ridiculous and completely irrelevant to my claim that autos on the street are boring. This is a car that is meant to be fun on the street. spirited driving, commuting, having a backseat for the kiddo to go to cars & coffee, or for ice cream, etc.

the Tesla comment above, though sarcastic, summarizes it nicely. lets buy a fast street car to mash the pedal down and have zero other input on the street, takes zero involvement from the driver, and questions why buy one of the last great cars to be offered in a manual at all, if its not a manual? its not the best at literally anything, its a fairly mediocre car - its great BECAUSE its manual and rwd.


edit - I should mention 911s are my all time favorite - and I stand by my sentiment there too. Unless you're towing a car for heavy track day use - as great and iconic as 911s are, to order one for the street in an auto trans is just plain corny. the whole cars utter being is revolved around feeling, driver involvement, etc - its why Porsche is one of the last brands to offer manuals to begin with.

[Squidget]

Ugh, these arguments are as old as the Buick Dyna-Flow. It's always just people taking a personal preference and trying to make some kind of global rule. What's the value in that, I don't get it.

I think it's silly to say that manuals are boring to anyone who has ever raced on track (and anecdotally, also untrue). I also think it's silly to say that 911s are boring on the street for everyone (also anecdotally untrue).

Please put down your pistols, this is not a duel worth having. It's all heat, no light.

[KCuv]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Ugh, these arguments are as old as the Buick Dyna-Flow. It's always just people taking a personal preference and trying to make some kind of global rule. What's the value in that, I don't get it.

I think it's silly to say that manuals are boring to anyone who has ever raced on track (and anecdotally, also untrue). I also think it's silly to say that 911s are boring on the street for everyone (also anecdotally untrue).

Please put down your pistols, this is not a duel worth having. It's all heat, no light.

your sentiment is correct - however to clarify, You've got it mixed up. I said Autos on the street are boring, and ordering a 911 for the street, in auto... is corny. lol. Let's agree arguing on the internet is pointless, but about the right things haha.

[FrankWhite!]

I bought the new G87 because it has a manual and the S58 engine in a monster. It moved me from 20 years with Audi so that’s a win for BMW.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by FrankWhite!

I bought the new G87 because it has a manual and the S58 engine in a monster. It moved me from 20 years with Audi so that’s a win for BMW.

Coming from an Audi, the G87's front end must feel very darty. The one thing I could never get past for Audis was how heavy the front feels. Great engines, though. The new 5-cyl rips!

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Coming from an Audi, the G87's front end must feel very darty. The one thing I could never get past for Audis was how heavy the front feels. Great engines, though. The new 5-cyl rips!

The rs3/TTRS platform completely changed my mind, couldn’t agree more, they feel alive again and will actually rotate on the gas.

-GT3M2

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rcouchh

Hard disagree. Idk if you've driven older manuals, but modern BMWs (F8X and G8x) are by far the easiest manuals I've ever driven. They are EXTREMELY forgiving, have throttle assists that make it near impossible to stall, and things like auto rev matching. I've taught multiple people how to drive stick in my F87 and they thought it was significantly easier than other cars they had attempted in.

How is it not an 'easy' car to drive? It literally could not get any easier.

So my recent history is '01 M3 manual, '08 M3 manual, '15 M4 manual, so I thought I knew BMW manuals. This one I haven't gotten used to yet. I drove my F82 in Sport mode all the time. The problem with the G87, from my perspective, is the clutch weight is higher than I'm used to, compounded with a very short take up at the end of the travel. This combined with a very sensitive throttle in Sport mode makes it difficult for me to be smooth in daily suburban/urban driving which is almost all I've done in the 3 weeks I've had it. My one country road blast was fun and no problem.

I'm thinking I may need to get a valve controller for the exhaust sound and reset M1 to Efficient throttle mode.

[baron95]

I test drove a G87 manual (current car SS 1LE manual), and thought it was an extremely easy to drive car. I felt instantly comfortable driving it.

I just thought the shifter feel was a bit rubbery and loooong throws vs the Tremec in the 1LE. But the clutch as light and easy to modulate, etc.

What I didn't like much was the gearing, so I pinched my nose and ordered the ZF8. I hope I didn't make a mistake, and end up bored to tears. I think the ZF8 gearing is just about perfect for the G8x.

[fcman]

I am going from a manual C7 to the ZF8. I just can’t stand BMWs manuals, to the point where it distracts me from enjoying the car