[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Bandit009

This is why I have kept the 330i ZHP manual. She’s gives me that connectivity when I am looking for it.

Manual ZHP sedans are the best!

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

For the new G Generation M2 and M4

???

Not sure what you are saying. My whole point was that the F generation the m2 and m4 were the same weight and for the G generation they are as well. Everyone is acting like it's something new and unexpected with the G87.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

???

Not sure what you are saying. My whole point was that the F generation the m2 and m4 were the same weight and for the G generation they are as well. Everyone is acting like it's something new and unexpected with the G87.

Who cares that it is not surprising? It is a disappointment that these cars are as heavy as they are, first off, but the point was how can the smaller M2 be only 16lbs lighter than the bigger M4 in the new G generation, that's all. I am not at all sure the point you're making...other than my point. Don't know why you're frustrated about where this idea came from. IMO, a smaller car should be lighter than its bigger sister car...that's where that idea came from; it is smaller. And, I find it a shame it isn't any lighter. The fact that you accept it is okay, but I find it disappointing...that's all.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Who cares that it is not surprising? It is a disappointment that these cars are as heavy as they are, first off, but the point was how can the smaller M2 be only 16lbs lighter than the bigger M4 in the new G generation, that's all. I am not at all sure the point you're making...other than my point. Don't know why you're frustrated about where this idea came from. IMO, a smaller car should be lighter than its bigger sister car...that's where that idea came from; it is smaller. And, I find it a shame it isn't any lighter. The fact that you accept it is okay, but I find it disappointing...that's all.

Lol, I'm not sure why you dug up my original response to you from 2 months ago and responded now but I was responding to your incredulous comment that:

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

how is that new M2 almost as heavy as an M4...whaaaat?

with the data that the M2 has always been roughly the same weight as the m4. It's been a common refrain I've seen from people complaining that the new m2 is the same weight as the new m4 which I find hypocritical considering the smaller m2 has never been a lighter car in comparison. When making a "baby m4" they are also making it cheaper which is often has the opposite effect of making a car heavier, due to using cheaper materials.

TBH it's a little annoying that I responded to your original comments with a detailed comparison and cited my sourced and you just responded after 2 months with a non-sensical "For the new G Generation M2 and M4" comment which didn't make any sense as a response to my comment

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Who cares that it is not surprising? It is a disappointment that these cars are as heavy as they are, first off, but the point was how can the smaller M2 be only 16lbs lighter than the bigger M4 in the new G generation, that's all. I am not at all sure the point you're making...other than my point. Don't know why you're frustrated about where this idea came from. IMO, a smaller car should be lighter than its bigger sister car...that's where that idea came from; it is smaller. And, I find it a shame it isn't any lighter. The fact that you accept it is okay, but I find it disappointing...that's all.

The M2 is the same width as the M4 (both 1.887m without mirrors), slightly taller (1.403m vs 1.393m and a hand width shorter (4.580m vs 4.794m). They are both on the same CLAR platform with the only difference being a bit of extra metal to extend the wheelbase and slightly extended nose and tail, adding somewhere around 30kg to the weight, which is offset by the lighter wheels and the aluminium hood and door skins. Otherwise all the mechanical components other than the driveshaft and wheels are the same weight.

[M2Cmtl]

Originally Posted by bcterps

The MT or bust, if AT was the only option, I'd probably go with a different car.

Same here. You buy a RWD coupe and slap a boring auto on it? No thanks. Then add AWD, then 2 more doors...boom, you're driving a fast camry.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Who cares that it is not surprising? It is a disappointment that these cars are as heavy as they are, first off, but the point was how can the smaller M2 be only 16lbs lighter than the bigger M4 in the new G generation, that's all.

Unless I'm missing something, the G82 M4 is 3,830 lbs. but comes standard with the carbon fiber roof. The G87 M2 is 3,814 with the standard steel/sunroof. If you subtract the ~45 lbs. when optioned the same you're looking at the M2 being ~60 lbs. lighter. And we know the forged vs. cast wheels are a big difference (30 lbs.?). So, apples to apples we're looking at 90 lbs. lighter for a similar spec for the M2 for its 4.4" shorter body. - that's not nothing.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Unless I'm missing something, the G82 M4 is 3,830 lbs. but comes standard with the carbon fiber roof. The G87 M2 is 3,814 with the standard steel roof. If you subtract the ~45 lbs. when optioned the same you're looking at the M2 being ~60 lbs. lighter. And we know the forged vs. cast wheels are a big difference (30 lbs.?). So, apples to apples we're looking at 90 lbs. lighter for a similar spec for the M2 for its 4.4" shorter body. - that's not nothing.

It's 3814 with sunroof (std in USA). Standard steel roof in Europe is only 6kg heavier than carbon roof.

But yes, the car is really about 50-100lbs lighter depending on spec.

[Bungus]

Auto for me. Look at reviews for this current gen and you will see that many complain that the manual feels like an afterthought where as the auto feels like it was made for this car (M3/M4 but close enough).

I get it, manuals are more engaging, but I honestly have more fun in modern automatics. Easier to toss around, and I don't have to worry about money shifting in the back of my mind.

Also I personally will be dailying frequently, so the choice was easy. Go with what you want, don't list to the ride or die folks.

[Gib007]

I originally had a Manual on order but changed it to Automatic after I test drove an M3 Competition (Automatic). The engine and drive on it was so savage, I figured there's no way a human can shift fast enough to fully enjoy the engine. Sequential Mode on the Automatic with the paddles is a lot of fun.

This is coming from me - a European who has driven for 16 years and has only driven Manual, ever. My only experience with Automatic was that test drive.

[cmgbk75]

[QUOTE=Gib007;29954123]I originally had a Manual on order but changed it to Automatic after I test drove an M3 Competition (Automatic). The engine and drive on it was so savage, I figured there's no way a human can shift fast enough to fully enjoy the engine. Sequential Mode on the Automatic with the paddles is a lot of fun.

This is coming from me - a European who has driven for 16 years and has only driven Manual, ever. My only experience with Automatic was that test drive.

Did you test drive a Base M3 with the Manual for comparison?

[Gib007]

[QUOTE=cmgbk75;29954312]

Originally Posted by Gib007

I originally had a Manual on order but changed it to Automatic after I test drove an M3 Competition (Automatic). The engine and drive on it was so savage, I figured there's no way a human can shift fast enough to fully enjoy the engine. Sequential Mode on the Automatic with the paddles is a lot of fun.

This is coming from me - a European who has driven for 16 years and has only driven Manual, ever. My only experience with Automatic was that test drive.

Did you test drive a Base M3 with the Manual for comparison?

It wasn't available. I was lucky to get to try the M3 Competition as it was. I got a WhatsApp message from my dealership and I had a two day window to go over and try it. It doesn't seem like a popular thing to test drive cars around here as the dealerships rarely have stock available for such testing, just for display purposes.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Lol, I'm not sure why you dug up my original response to you from 2 months ago and responded now but I was responding to your incredulous comment that:



with the data that the M2 has always been roughly the same weight as the m4. It's been a common refrain I've seen from people complaining that the new m2 is the same weight as the new m4 which I find hypocritical considering the smaller m2 has never been a lighter car in comparison. When making a "baby m4" they are also making it cheaper which is often has the opposite effect of making a car heavier, due to using cheaper materials.

TBH it's a little annoying that I responded to your original comments with a detailed comparison and cited my sourced and you just responded after 2 months with a non-sensical "For the new G Generation M2 and M4" comment which didn't make any sense as a response to my comment

You find this back and forth annoying because it's two months later...now that is incredulous. And I don't even find your disrespecting tone annoying. Someone needs a vacation, and it isn't me. You're that guy that cannot just agree to disagree, or state his opinion without a demeaning tone. Just chill, brother, it's all good.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by zero21

It's 3814 with sunroof (std in USA). Standard steel roof in Europe is only 6kg heavier than carbon roof.

But yes, the car is really about 50-100lbs lighter depending on spec.

Yeah, I hope this is more accurate. Is the advertised weight if 3814, for sure with that sunroof? I mean, in the end, I'd buy the thing over an M4 due to cost, but was hoping it'd much lighter. Still, the performance numbers are amazing regardless of its weight...like all M cars these days. But with your analysis, it'd be an easier choice for me...we'll see. Right now, still loving my tuned 230.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Yeah, I hope this is more accurate. Is the advertised weight if 3814, for sure with that sunroof? I mean, in the end, I'd buy the thing over an M4 due to cost, but was hoping it'd much lighter. Still, the performance numbers are amazing regardless of its weight...like all M cars these days. But with your analysis, it'd be an easier choice for me...we'll see. Right now, still loving my tuned 230.

I've heard various weights thrown around from the intro week: 1700kg, 1710kg, and plus 25kg for the auto. Keep in mind that car had the carbon pack. If you add back the 11kg for seats, and 22kg for the sunroof, the stock manual car in in the US at worst should be 3834lbs loaded based on the 1710kg figure. If you add the auto, it's plus 55lbs.

If you go best case scenario, all the HEA units I believe have the carbon roof, and my car is a stick so should weigh 1711kg or 3764lbs.

I think this is as close as we can get until we weigh them; which I will be doing same day I take delivery. Both with stock wheels, and my 827Ms.

Edit: I'm hoping that with my wheels and a couple mods ($6500) I can get it to about 3650.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

You find this back and forth annoying because it's two months later...now that is incredulous. And I don't even find your disrespecting tone annoying. Someone needs a vacation, and it isn't me. You're that guy that cannot just agree to disagree, or state his opinion without a demeaning tone. Just chill, brother, it's all good.

Your the one trying to pick fights after two months :shrug:.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Gib007

I originally had a Manual on order but changed it to Automatic after I test drove an M3 Competition (Automatic). The engine and drive on it was so savage, I figured there's no way a human can shift fast enough to fully enjoy the engine. Sequential Mode on the Automatic with the paddles is a lot of fun.

This is coming from me - a European who has driven for 16 years and has only driven Manual, ever. My only experience with Automatic was that test drive.

Have driven manual only cars from 1987 to Dec. 2017.

Since Dec. 2017 though mostly my cars have been automatics.

But I'm working getting rid of my 2022 BMW 230i with an 8-speed automatic for a (fingers crossed!) 2023 BMW 2 with a 6-speed manual. This to go along with my 2023 MINI JCW with a 6-speed manual.

Why? Despite the fact the 230i 8-speed is a fine transmission the resistance I get when I look into an automatic fluid/filter service -- "life time fluid" -- has me concerned about the longevity of the automatic.

So after some shopping I have now acquired a 2023 MINI JCW with a 6-speed manual (my 2nd JCW with a 6-speed manual I might add) and if it all goes according to plan in less than a month I hope to be driving a M2 with a 6-speed manual.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Have driven manual only cars from 1987 to Dec. 2017.

Since Dec. 2017 though mostly my cars have been automatics.

But I'm working getting rid of my 2022 BMW 230i with an 8-speed automatic for a (fingers crossed!) 2023 BMW 2 with a 6-speed manual. This to go along with my 2023 MINI JCW with a 6-speed manual.

Why? Despite the fact the 230i 8-speed is a fine transmission the resistance I get when I look into an automatic fluid/filter service -- "life time fluid" -- has me concerned about the longevity of the automatic.

So after some shopping I have now acquired a 2023 MINI JCW with a 6-speed manual (my 2nd JCW with a 6-speed manual I might add) and if it all goes according to plan in less than a month I hope to be driving a M2 with a 6-speed manual.

The reasons people say they aren't getting something are hilarious. So change the fluid 😆😆

But you're talking about longevity or reliability and you are buying a second mini. Clearly that's not a real concern

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

But you're talking about longevity or reliability and you are buying a second mini. Clearly that's not a real concern

[KevinC]

[G80BSM]

Originally Posted by KevinC

LOL! I agree and that’s why I don’t drive a manual car anymore

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

The reasons people say they aren't getting something are hilarious. So change the fluid 😆😆

But you're talking about longevity or reliability and you are buying a second mini. Clearly that's not a real concern

Automatic transmission fluid service is not a service one can do on his driveway. The procedure for the Hellcat was complicated requiring having the transmission temperature within a certain range and it staying there. Car had to be lifted so with the engine running the transmission could be put in gear and the drive wheels could turn to ensure a proper refill of the transmission. Word was this would run $1000... (The 5-speed manual fluid service on my Boxster required 0.3 hour labor and 2 liters of fluid. Least expensive service for the car. My Turbo's 6-speed manual fluid service cost more but not much more.)

I suspect BMW automatics are if not as complicated to service as the Hellcat transmission still more complicated than a simple drain and refill of fluid. Oh and with a filter change.

As for the MINI...

My current JCW is my *3rd* MINI. I bought a 2023 S last Dec. to drive until I could order and receive delivery of a JCW with a 6-speed but I found one on a lot -- out in Loveland, CO -- and bought it trading in my S.

The S like the 2018 JCW I owned first and now this 2023 JCW give every indication of being good reliable cars. I know the early MINIs have a rep for poor reliability but the newer ones circa I think 2016 or when the BMW engine appeared are much better in the reliability department. The car comes with a 4 year 50K mile warranty. Granted this only covers the car well, the 1st 4 years and 50K miles. My days of putting 50K miles on a car in 4 years (or less) are over with. But if this MINI proves to be unreliable I can get rid of it and get something else.