[amanzin]

Hi there,

I have a 2008 328xi E91. I have the following errors coming from bimmergeeks protool software: Errors: A0B4, 2ACC, 2ACB, and no voltage on fuse F37.

The car cranks but refuses to start. I've already successfully replaced and registered a new battery.

Could anyone provide some advice on what to try next?

Thanks!

Ari

[WRCThree]

Bringing this thread back from the dead, did this ever get fixed? I was following your other thread and communication with George, but then it went silent. I'm currently dealing with the same issues with the DME relay error codes and I was hoping to follow what you went through to fix it.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by WRCThree

... I'm currently dealing with the same issues with the DME relay error codes and I was hoping to follow what you went
through to fix it.

Assuming you have 2008 335i with 2ACB code & "Crank, NO Start", you should ALSO have NO voltage at F37 since
K6300 DME Main Relay is NOT being activated.

First Steps:
1) Test operation (Audible Click & F37 voltage) of K6300 which is soldered to upper-right of JB Fuse Panel Circuit Board:
a) Apply Chassis Ground to the Red/Gray wire at X11010/1, using a pin/needle inserted through wire insulation.
b) Relay should "CLICK" & voltage should appear at F37 when Relay contacts are Closed with Ground application;
c) IF above provides voltage to F37, turn on ignition & attempt START

Report your findings in those tests & we'll suggest NEXT Steps.
Please provide Last-7 Characters of VIN. ISTA SSP's attached for 2008 335i.
George

[WRCThree]

George,
First off, let me say thank you for how quickly you responded to this dated thread, for immediately pulling up the ISTA schematics, and for providing an initial step-by-step set of instructions to help me troubleshoot this

I am going to provide a detailed account of what I experienced and hopefully this can at least help one other person out in the future. TL;DR is I had a loose connector within the Fuse Panel.

Initial Encounter of Issues:

Issue #1:
Saturday Morning, June 8th, I heard a loud/unfamiliar noise coming from the glovebox area, but I disregarded it as just normal BMW electronic stuff haha. Immediately after, I sprayed my windshield with wiper fluid, but the wipers were not working at all. I tried multiple times but the wipers were clearly not working.

Issue #2:
I drove to my destination, went to an appt, started the car back up and drove home. On my way home in the middle of the afternoon on a sunny California day, I noticed my headlights were turned on with the headlight switch set to "Auto".

Issue #3:
I was still fixated on the wipers not working, so when I finally got home, I pulled into the driveway, turned the vehicle off, and went looking for F50 (30A Fuse for Wiper Control). I pulled the fuse out of the Junction Box (JB) Fuse Panel Circuit Board (CB) and the glovebox light turned off!

Issue #4:
I needed to stop the diagnostics for the day and pull the car into the garage from the driveway. I go to start the car to only hear it crank several times and not start! I was in disbelief at how a pulled Windshield Wiper Fuse could cause this much damage to the overall vehicle. The car sat in the driveway all day & night Saturday.

Troubleshooting:

I spent the entire afternoon on Sunday testing the battery and every fuse in the JB Fuse Panel CB. The battery was incredibly healthy, every single fuse appeared to be working properly and/or not broken from my understanding (F37,F38,F39 had zero voltage ). However, since the car would crank but not start, I noticed that I no longer heard the fuel pump priming too.

Still stumped at what was going on, I decided to pull out my MHD Wireless WIFI Adapter and scan for any potential codes.



Immediately started looking up these codes and spent a bunch of time reading forums, threads, posts, only to learn of @gbalthrop performing God's Work for the BMW community.

Response to George's Actions:

Monday got away from me with work and family, but Tuesday I was able to get outside and start troubleshooting the car as George outlined here.

First Steps:
1) Test operation (Audible Click & F37 voltage) of K6300 which is soldered to upper-right of JB Fuse Panel Circuit Board:
a) Apply Chassis Ground to the Red/Gray wire at X11010/1, using a pin/needle inserted through wire insulation.
b) Relay should "CLICK" & voltage should appear at F37 when Relay contacts are Closed with Ground application;
c) IF above provides voltage to F37, turn on ignition & attempt START

Step 1) I tested F37 with ignition off - No voltage and no audible click. Also tested with ignition on - no voltage and no audible click.

Step 1a) I located connector X11010 and the associated Red/Gray wire at Pin #1. I reached my hand in the fuse panel area to grab the wire and THE GLOVE BOX LIGHT CAME ON!

Immediately I was in disbelief that all of this was caused by a loose connection!? Since the glovebox light came on, I decided to see if the car would start. Opened the driver's side door, heard the fuel pump like normal, pressed the start button and it fired right up!

I thought everything was fixed, so I went to test the wipers, NO WIPERS . I turned the car off and decided to pull the Windshield Wiper Relay. Reached to unplug it and the glovebox light went out again!

Even more annoyed at this point, i reached to grab Connector X11010 and the Red/Gray wire, gave it a push............Glove Box light came on again AND........I heard and felt a "CLICK" as if the connector wasn't fully seated into the JB Fuse Panel CB!

Summary:

All of my issues were merely caused by a loose connection of Connector X11010 into the JB Fuse Panel Circuit Board. I purchased this car from the previous owner 2 months ago and he or someone who worked on it previously must have touched that connector for whatever reason and did not securely re-connect it.

I'm very happy this was an EASY fix, but I honestly wouldn't have known where to start if it wasn't for @gbalthrop's help and all of his previous contributions to other members of the community. Thank you again and I hope this helps anyone who reads this!

[gbalthrop]

Thanks for taking the time to fully-document your experience!
Morals of Story:
1) Diagnose: Don't "Throw Part$"
2) There are always MULTIPLE possible causes of an issue. Eliminate Each Possible Cause, 1-at-a-time;
3) Refer to correct "SSP" Electrical Diagram for system having Fault. Fault Codes are "Starting Point".
4) Get Forum Help! If you don't have ISTA or wiring diagram, request it.
5) If MULTIPLE issues (here "Crank, NO Start" & Wipers Inoperative), look for COMMON failure point.
6) It costs NOTHING (but your time) to test wiring & connectors. ALWAYS do that FIRST before Throwing Part$.

See attached Bentley page & ISTA SSP, showing X11010 wiring functions. NOTE #9 related to Wiper Relay K36 Ground.
NOTE: Incomplete/ Incorrect Identification of X11010/1 & perhaps other Pins. ISTA SSP's for YOUR vehicle usually correct.

Good Job "WRC, III"
George

[radioactivestardust]

Hi - recently registered after years of reading and solving issues - I much appreciate everyone's contribution and sharing over the years. But now I'm really stumped. Got crank no start with similar symptoms but different DTC codes! Daughter's 06 E90 N52 was working fine until it just did not want to start!

AOB4 - CAS Engine start, engine operation
2FA3 - DME no coding

And codes that have been with car for a while
93C3 - MRS seat occupancy detector, passenger
9CBC - FRM short fault 1
94BB - DSC
5EBA - DSC

Before i go replace the DME i'd want to know if it may be the JB connectors per WRCthree troubles. Couple years back had to swap DME due to water ingress and worked just fine since.

Battery good 12.6v (on tender) healthy crank - fuel pressure good, static 60 n holding, 72 during crank - CAS appears to be working fine - recognizes key, fuel pump activates, etc. Checked fuses in JB and DME compartment and all good. Checked DME compartment relays and good too. Got power to coil connectors but no firing during crank - assume no signal. After ruling out much of the above and given the only consistent indication was a lack of tach activity during crank i swapped out the crankshaft sensor - but nothing changed!

Read a couple of threads that "2FA3 - DME no coding" can be benign or bad DME - but we get no other codes from DME failing to talk to other module so i assume it must be good! Is there a more definitive way of corroborate this?

"AOB4 - CAS Engine start, engine operation" can be due to too many cranks - this about right?

"93C3 - MRS seat occupancy detector", passenger does not appear to affect engine operation - right?

BTW - codes remain when cleared!

Similarities to WRCthree - but different; when cranking wipers turn on on their own sometimes - and in last couple of tries i get a variable but loud buzzing sound from what appears to be the front passenger seat!

Have reset the CAS with Xtool8 - but don't get any confirmation either way - assuming it reset! Ran INPA and i do not detect anything abnormal - activate fuel pump, turn on lights, checks for other activation of systems and live data!

Any pointers and JB diagrams would be most helpful.

In the meantime will go to do more poking in the JB.

Cheers

PS - have i missed mentioning anything?

[radioactivestardust]

Update - had sent my son to crawl under the glove compartment to test the fuses, which he did with the new digital LED test light and the red LED turned on, so he called them all working - however, i now understand he did not see a voltage reading! Anyhoo - it appears there is no meaning voltage reaching the fuses! Getting anywhere from 2 millivolts to 40 odd millivolts!

Where should i be looking next? Is there a dedicated power cable from the battery harness to fuse box?

BTW - it was the subwoofer under passenger seat making the buzzing sound - likely shorted, so I disconnected! Inspected under the carpet by subwoofer and no sign of water ingress - looked factory new.

Wipers did not activate this time and worked normally when activated form stick.

Many thanks in advance.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by radioactivestardust

... 06 E90 N52 was working fine until it just did not want to start!
AOB4 - CAS Engine start, engine operation
2FA3 - DME no coding...
Battery good 12.6v (on tender) healthy crank - fuel pressure good, static 60 n holding, 72 during crank - CAS appears to be working fine - recognizes key, fuel pump activates, etc. Checked fuses in JB and DME compartment and all good. Checked DME compartment relays and good too. Got power to coil connectors but no firing during crank - assume no signal. After ruling out much of the above and given the only consistent indication was a lack of tach activity during crank i swapped out the crankshaft sensor - but nothing changed!
Ran INPA and i do not detect anything abnormal - activate fuel pump, turn on lights, checks for other activation of systems and live data!...

Originally Posted by radioactivestardust

Update...Anyhoo - it appears there is no meaning voltage reaching the fuses! Getting anywhere from 2 millivolts to 40 odd millivolts! ... Is there a dedicated power cable from the battery harness to fuse box? [Yes]

Please clarify your LAST post by checking to see WHAT works INSIDE vehicle, with Ignition ON, such as Radio, Climate Control Panel, Windows, Seats, Interior Lights. Since possible issue of Lack of Power to JB Fuse Panel via Separate B+ Cable was NOT mentioned in First Post, I'll address Post #1 issues here.

If you get NO RPM on tach during Cranking, either per INPA/Scan Tool, or Tach, then THAT is first thing to address. If you have changed the Crankshaft Sensor, with NO Change in RPM signal (which SHOULD be in 180 - 200 RPM range during cranking), then you have a wiring fault. As you suggested, the DME needs INPUT from Crank Sensor to time Spark & Injector Pulse (ground signal sent by DME).

BTW, A0B4 CAS fault suggests CAS is sending KL50 Voltage Signal to Starter Solenoid, but DME does NOT report Engine RPM. Either NO Crank, OR in this case, NO Crank Sensor Signal received by DME, even though Starter is Cranking Engine (I assume engine is actually turning, as opposed to Starter "whirring" but NOT engaging Flywheel?).

Since you indicate you have INPA, I would suggest using it to determine:
1) NO Crank Sensor Signal during Cranking:
INPA > DME (Engine | MSV70 for N52) > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 Measured Values Group 1, "Motor Drehzahl"/RPM (2nd Row on Left).

While you have INPA connected to DME; SAME Screen:
2) KL 87 Spannung/Voltage Supply to DME should be Battery Voltage with Ignition ON (Top-Left Bar Graph).

INPA ScreenPrint from my 3/2007 build 328xi is attached.

Please let us know what you find for EACH of those two values (RPM & Voltage).
Please Provide Last-7 Characters of VIN, & we'll provide ISTA wiring diagram & Test Suggestions for Crank Sensor Wiring.
George

[radioactivestardust]

Much appreciate your prompt reply Brigadier.

VIN - KT79174

Will be back at the car on Wed and report back - in the meantime the Radio, Windows, Seats and Interior/exterior lights work - did not turn on the Climate Control Panel.

When running INPA it showed no engine RMP while cranking - attached INPA screen post crank
Yes, engine is turning over smoothly



Look forward to your reply and will be in touch later in the week - cheers

[radioactivestardust]

An oops on my part now - having checked the test light worked correctly - the ground on door bolt (unpainted) was a bad option for a ground!!! All fuses getting a good 12.3/4v!!!

[GoRomeo]

Not sure if you have looked into the “Camshaft Position Sensor” ??

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by radioactivestardust

... VIN - KT79174
the Radio, Windows, Seats and Interior/exterior lights work - did not turn on the Climate Control Panel. [Will assume power supply to JB Fuse Panel is OK, unless otherwise indicated.]...

ISSUE: No Tach signal or RPM Signal during Starter Cranking; "Crank, NO Start"
Check fuse F03 (in E-box) which supplies power to Crank Sensor, but since it ALSO supplies power to DME, & your INPA ScreenPrint shows other INPUTS, apparently F03 is OK.

See the ISTA screenprints attached to NEXT Post, for wiring information. I would begin by inspecting Pins & Sockets at X60005/29 & 30, connector at DME, for any obvious corrosion or damage to pins, sockets, or wiring. If STILL no Tach signal during Starter Cranking after cleaning Pins & Sockets with Electronic Contact Cleaner, next step would be to test those two wires for continuity & Short-to-Ground.

I've never traced that wiring harness, or tried to access the Crank Sensor Connector. Some have reported being able to access from BENEATH, without removing Intake Manifold.

ANYONE having any TIPS on those things, please advise.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are ISTA ScreenPrints related to prior post, 2006 325xi, Crankshaft Sensor wiring.
George

[radioactivestardust]

Many thanks gentlemen.

Was unable to get round to it today due to a major storm coming through when i got home in the afternoon - it sleeps out in deference to the e31s and M6. Will get to it Friday now. Anyhoo - all engine fuses in computer compartment for cam and crank sensors tested good. Unfortunately with eagerness to replace crank sensor did NOT test connector for continuity & Short-to-Ground - and i'm kicking myself for it! Per a couple of YT videos looked into replacing the crank sensor from the top without removing the air intake manifold with extensions but not for this E90. Also looked at the one from underneath and again not for this model - yeah, forgot to mention it is a xi with drive shaft in the way - can't get my hand through.

Previously tried cranking without MAF sensor - no change. Forgot to test pulling MAP sensor - that's another for Friday. Will conduct a vacuum test and smoke test in case i have significant leak, which i don't suspect but need to rule it out. im dreading to think i may have a timing belt issue if it's not the wiring or computer!

Electrics has never been my forte so this is going to have a steep learning curve! Again many thanks - i'll be in touch.
Willy

[radioactivestardust]

Oops - thx for the ISTA screenshots.

Here attaching all the INPA screenshots form last week incase you see something i've missed

[radioactivestardust]

George - what i was remiss to mention was that while INPA screenshots show EWS errors these have not returned since last cleared and carrying out the last start tries. However, now that i learn the EWS (is BMW's Ignition Control Unit) it appears pretty pertinent to a crank no start. I wonder if it cleared when i did the CAS reset! UPDATE - EWS codes are back 2F47 n 44!

Any thoughts on how to test it/wiring?

Thanks again

[timo37373]

I have the same problem with same codes any one solve this issue

[radioactivestardust]

Welcome timo37373 - still working thru this

Some additional colour - came across this on a Bimmerfest post:

"Starter gets the enable signal from the CAS and the rest (fuel, spark) is provided by the DME if the DME-CAS check went well.

Since the starter works the CAS received the information that the DME-CAS code identification checked out good.
But the DME doesn't have this information and it doesn't enable the sparks and the injectors. So I think the problem lies on the DME side only."

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by radioactivestardust

... UPDATE - EWS codes are back 2F47 n 44!...

I would STILL address the "NO RPM during Starter Cranking" issue FIRST, for reasons mentioned BELOW.

I'm NOT familiar with 2006 vehicles (US), or those in Rest of World that have EWS systems BEFORE EWS4. My understanding of EWS or Immobilizer system is that there is a "handshake" process that occurs in less than a second during Starter Cranking. The CAS & DME need to be "synchronized" or "aligned". CAS sends a "Challenge" to DME & DME provides a "Response". If Response is proper, then DME is activated to provide Spark & Injector Pulse, & engine fires.

I am NOT familiar with either code: 2F47 or 2F44. Here are BMW Fault Code Lookup Definitions:
2F47 | DME: Immobilizer Irreversible control-module fault | mss70 | Engine electronics
2F44 | DME: EWS preventing manipulation | mss70 | Engine electronics

I would suggest the following, since you have INPA:
1) Check for ALL fault codes in CAS Module memory & report those;
2) See MSV70 Main Menu for "Start Value Comparison" screens. Although I don't have an MSV70 DME, my INPA suggests there SHOULD be two screens you can access:
a) INPA > MSV70 > Shft+F6 EWS - Start Value Comparison
b) INPA > MSV70 > Shft+F7 CAS - Start Value Comparison

That MAY be a way to restore "Alignment" of CAS & DME.
HOWEVER, if you still have NO Crank Sensor Signal received by DME during Starter Cranking, I don't know HOW DME would know to "Respond" if it doesn't know it is being "Challenged". I don't claim to understand EWS3 function. Since it is "Theft Prevention", BMW didn't want to "splain" the system.

Please let us know what you find.
George

[radioactivestardust]

Hi George - tasked accomplished even though had a bunch of summer showers come thru!!

DME connectors - plug n socket clean as whistle - hit it with some MAF cleaner anyways.
X60005 pins 29 & 30 has a resistance of 667 per pic!! Should show zero for continuity, right?
Tested both two adjacent pair pins 27 & 28 showed 1700 and 31 & 32 750 - is this possible or did i screw up somewhere? Are those pairs?

How do i go about tracing the short - what tools do you suggest?

CAS shows only one DTC - the same error as before, A0B4

Below screenshots of EWS and CAS - Start Value Comparison
CAS appears good and handshakes with DME
EWS failed to execute job

I'm concluding that i have a bad EWS as the previous chap above! But i remain concerned that the continuity reading is suspect!

What does "locked" mean on "Read initialized indicator" screen below from CAS module test?

Car remains crank no start!

Your input is much appreciated.
Willy

UPDATE: Looking at the INPA EWS fault and come to think it may be an INPA api error (missing files or the like) and not a EWS sys error - what's your understanding George?

Am downloading ISTA-P to get familiar - may take me a while!

UPDATE-1: ISTA installed n working on PC - installing on laptop - not small, 27GB!!

Looking at the INPA EWS fault and come to think it may be an INPA api error (missing files or the like) and not a EWS sys error - what's your understanding George? Cheers

UPDATE-2: Reset CAS with Xtool8 and following codes were cleared 2F44 DME: EWS preventing manipulation and A0B4 CAS: Engine start, starter operation

Currently experiencing
2FA3 - DME no coding
2F47 - Immobilizer irreversible control unit fault (among other non-engine related DSC and FRM codes)

Will update tomorrow with status - if they return!

[timo37373]

Any luck with it ?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by radioactivestardust

... X60005 pins 29 & 30 has a resistance of 667 per pic!! Should show zero for continuity, right?
Tested both two adjacent pair pins 27 & 28 showed 1700 and 31 & 32 750 - is this possible or did i screw up somewhere? Are those pairs?...

"What we have here is a failure to communicate".
My suggestion was to test the WIRES between the the Crank Sensor X6203 & the X60005 Connector at the DME. Please look at my Post #12, & the ISTA ScreenPrints attached to Post #13.

The Yellow wire between X6203/3 & X60005/29 is the Signal Wire for the Crank Sensor. You want to test that Yellow wire for continuity from X6203/3 to X60005/29. You WANT continuity (NO appreciable Resistance/Ohms) in that wire.

You ALSO want to check that Yellow wire for Continuity/Short to Chassis Ground. You WANT infinite resistance ("1" on display) in reference to Chassis Ground. For that test, you would select 200 Ohms range, place Red Meter Probe on X60005/29 metal socket, & Black Meter Probe on good Chassis Ground/METAL.

If that is still NOT clear, please advise,
George