[BigKutta]

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Maybe someone already knows this or not, but the G87 is gonna be the last gasoline M car hurrah for BMW, and I feel like there will be a M2CSL. Judging by the M4CSL pics (sans big grill), I NEED an M2 version of this. Love it!!!

[DanG]

Who knows. There were all kind of rumors about an F87 CSL but it never happened.

[MarkR171]

I don't know, the M4 CSL looks hideous to me. Unnecessary and childish touches everywhere, like someone got a hold of pinstripe tape and black vinyl for their Hyundai.

What's wrong with understated class?

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I don't know, the M4 CSL looks hideous to me. Unnecessary and childish touches everywhere, like someone got a hold of pinstripe tape and black vinyl for their Hyundai.

What's wrong with understated class?

Nothing wrong with understated, actually I prefer that. I want it to be understated, but with all the benefit of lightweight and extra power. If its really gonna be one of the last gasoline powered M cars, I want one!

[Capt Canuck]

Why not? Parts bin as much as they can, easy engine output increase, new bonnet and boot lid.
Job done.
Or they just stick with calling it a CS and do pretty much what they did with the F87 M2CS.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Nothing wrong with understated, actually I prefer that. I want it to be understated, but with all the benefit of lightweight and extra power. If its really gonna be one of the last gasoline powered M cars, I want one!

It'll be a special one for sure... but we'll see how lightweight it is. The M4CSL is still 3600+lbs... Hope the G87 doesn't gain too much weight over the F87.

[Sublime00]

Why would the G87 be the last gasoline powered M car? Has this been confirmed by BMW?

I think there's plenty of demand for gasoline powered sports cars, doesn't make sense why BMW wouldn't have at least one ICE M car w/ a stick in its lineup. An M2 makes the most sense to keep the slot filled.

[OG Shark]

I actually like how the M4 CSL turned out. First on the list at my local BMW dealer and leaning towards the Frozen Brooklyn Grey. I like understated too (have a few that I would consider to be understated) - but also like a bit of the bolder touches on this one. Can't wait to get my hands on it and go run a few laps at COTA.

As far as a G87 CSL... unfortunately I wish the standard for G87s should be somewhat of a CSL version. Too close in weight to the M3/M4. Further differentiate the two platforms - keep the freaking weight down as standard on the M2. Don't make a CSL version necessary to achieve a weight that I think the G87 should have from the get go. Then bust out with a sub 3300lb CSL in a couple of years as an epic version.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Why would the G87 be the last gasoline powered M car? Has this been confirmed by BMW?

I think there's plenty of demand for gasoline powered sports cars, doesn't make sense why BMW wouldn't have at least one ICE M car w/ a stick in its lineup. An M2 makes the most sense to keep the slot filled.

Maybe, maybe not. The 2024 M5 is hybrid, not sure if thats an option or a standard, but I assume the next M3/4 will also be such. Things can change in many way is 7 years when we are talking about the next M2. Who know...

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Maybe, maybe not. The 2024 M5 is hybrid, not sure if thats an option or a standard, but I assume the next M3/4 will also be such. Things can change in many way is 7 years when we are talking about the next M2. Who know...

True. As mentioned, I'm hoping there's one M ICE w/ a manual in the lineup at BMW.

I suspect Porsche will have a manual ICE option with a 718 variant, hopefully 911 variant.

Toyota will hopefully keep something available for the next model cycle esp if manual Supra sales are strong. GR Corolla is already a hit as is the GR86. I suspect Mazda will keep a Miata manual around.

With minimal options available, the take rate for manuals should be pretty strong in the few models still offering them. Why lose that market share? There won't be much R&D into new ICE development, but these engines are powerful enough and if all they're doing is tweaking what's already available and restyling the cars every few years I'm happy to have an option from BMW even if the styling is questionable.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

There won't be much R&D into new ICE development, but these engines are powerful enough and if all they're doing is tweaking what's already available and restyling the cars every few years I'm happy to have an option from BMW even if the styling is questionable.

That's exactly it. BMW is not likely to continue supporting the S58 for much longer beyond the current G gen Ms, as they develop new platforms and engines. The higher series cars at BMW (7/5) are always a sign of things to come in the smaller cars, so this M5 news doesnt make me happy. I too hope there is always a pure ICE option, but lets see

[Teargas415]

X2 on picking one up. How much you think it would be? $119k?

[to_riffic]

I want the buckets. I'd dismantle that nut checker and reupholster...

[Moflow]

Agreed that pure ICE and manuals probably won’t make it past this generation of BMWs.

Not a huge fan of the CSL, just feel like they couldn’t decide on red highlights or black highlights and then they threw the yellow headlights in…just too much. Mechanically it’s cool though. I guess that’s consistent with the G80/82 in general though. Too much going on outside, but all good from behind the wheel.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Teargas415

X2 on picking one up. How much you think it would be? $119k?

Yeah, my guess would be right around $110k, considering that the F87 CS Racing was right at $105k

[Bumpinjeep]

If they do make a CSL, here is what I hope:
1. A manual transmission. This is a must. Having a basic auto tranny is a non-starter for me.
2. A real diet. 200 lbs.+ is a start. I would like to see the car weigh 33XX if it's a true CSL.
3. Adjustability. This isn't the M4 CSL BS where you don't get a wing, or a half cage, or coilovers that you can manually adjust. Stuff that the GTS had that the CSL doesn't. Meaning, it's not just a money grab.
4. Something truly unique outside of a lip kit, trunk spoiler, and wheels. I would love something cool and instantly recognizable like different fenders.
5. Keep the same power plant, at 33XX lbs. sticky tires, with actual downforce, 455 hp is plenty.
6. Under 6 figures price tag.
That is all for now. Please send these notes to BMW NA so they can start working on it ASAP. Thanks BigKutta

[MooMooM2]

I like the new M4 CSL. Yeah it looks ridiculous but so what

I dunno what color I would go for, white looks nice from the back, black looks nice from the front. Frozen gray looks nice too.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/05/20/b...gpzc4Gf7ar2xIQ

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

If they do make a CSL, here is what I hope:
1. A manual transmission. This is a must. Having a basic auto tranny is a non-starter for me.
2. A real diet. 200 lbs.+ is a start. I would like to see the car weigh 33XX if it's a true CSL.
3. Adjustability. This isn't the M4 CSL BS where you don't get a wing, or a half cage, or coilovers that you can manually adjust. Stuff that the GTS had that the CSL doesn't. Meaning, it's not just a money grab.
4. Something truly unique outside of a lip kit, trunk spoiler, and wheels. I would love something cool and instantly recognizable like different fenders.
5. Keep the same power plant, at 33XX lbs. sticky tires, with actual downforce, 455 hp is plenty.
6. Under 6 figures price tag.
That is all for now. Please send these notes to BMW NA so they can start working on it ASAP. Thanks BigKutta

I'm on it Bumpinjeep!

[PHX102]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

True. As mentioned, I'm hoping there's one M ICE w/ a manual in the lineup at BMW.

I suspect Porsche will have a manual ICE option with a 718 variant, hopefully 911 variant.

Toyota will hopefully keep something available for the next model cycle esp if manual Supra sales are strong. GR Corolla is already a hit as is the GR86. I suspect Mazda will keep a Miata manual around.

With minimal options available, the take rate for manuals should be pretty strong in the few models still offering them. Why lose that market share? There won't be much R&D into new ICE development, but these engines are powerful enough and if all they're doing is tweaking what's already available and restyling the cars every few years I'm happy to have an option from BMW even if the styling is questionable.

You would think the Miata would be the very last manual, gasoline powered vehicle for sale on the market becoming more and more niche but….


https://www.motor1.com/news/515992/n...-electric/amp/

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by PHX102

You would think the Miata would be the very last manual, gasoline powered vehicle for sale on the market becoming more and more niche but….


https://www.motor1.com/news/515992/n...-electric/amp/

Five or six years ago some friends and I talked about this very subject (which car will be the last one with a M/T.) Our consensus: Mustang. It's sold in such big numbers that even if only 10 percent of owners are ordering the M/T, it's probably still worth it to Ford. Plus axing the manual would piss off a lot of their fans.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Five or six years ago some friends and I talked about this very subject (which car will be the last one with a M/T.) Our consensus: Mustang. It's sold in such big numbers that even if only 10 percent of owners are ordering the M/T, it's probably still worth it to Ford. Plus axing the manual would piss off a lot of their fans.

Sporty cars: reckon it and the BRZ/86 will be in a dead heat.

Some bog standard Dacia or other econobox will as long as it has petrol engine.

[Rk-d]

M4 CSL is 3600 lb with an automatic.

I take it this car is supposed to take aim at the GT3 - which has a better transmission and is 500 lbs lighter.

An M2 CSL would be cool if they could get it to 3100 lbs and make it a manual or DCT.