[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by MateoTorgy

These aren't your grandpa's tractors. The heavy in the summer and light in the winter... That logic worked with your dad's 1976 Ford LTD. To dismiss and ignore 2022 automotive and petrochemical engineering technology in deference to your "gut" or your "hunch" is just really stupid.

There are plenty of decisions made in automobile manufacturing that are not made for the benefit of the customer, or decisions made that compromise something at the expense of improving something else.

Plastic oil pans, direct injection engines without the benefit of port injection to clean the intake valves and cylinder heads, EGR, etc. are all decisions that have compromised the operation and longevity of engines for consumers.

Engineers can scream from the rooftops, but politicians and bean counters around the world get the final say in most cases.

[MateoTorgy]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Compelling arguments, all (except the "...really stupid" part). Agreed the oil is so integral to the design of the engines. And, I would trust BMW, generally, on their oil recommendations. However, to just say modern engines ONLY take their recommended oil is a strict standard. Ford recommends heavier weights (up to 20-50) for track duty with the clear inference that the 0-20 is not heavy enough for the harder and hotter use. I think it's a fine debate nonetheless, and I am increasingly warming to the idea of just keeping the factory oil recommendation year round, no matter how hard I work the throttle. However, summer track duty is very different than most other usage and I think it is a hard sell for a lot of guys when we know manufacturers are juggling multiple motivations for design and engineering philosophy. Am I saying I don't wholly trust BMW? Yeah, a bit. The oil is less of a concern for me, but I suspect, a bigger deal for the tuners and track guys on this forum.

Good call. I edited my comment. Now it says "slightly unwise, at least in my opinion."

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by MateoTorgy

BMW hasn't developed new oil specifications like LL-17 FE+ to reduce emissions, without regard to the engine's design. BMW has developed engines like the B48/58 to improve performance AND efficiency and they were designed for 0W-20 oil, from the oil filter, to the oil cooler, the bearings, and crankshaft, the cylinder head, the valve train, the cam shaft, the turbo, and all channels and ports in between. All designed specifically for 0W-20 oil. There's no hidden agenda or conspiracy to it. Therefore, don't use an oil weight heavier than that which is specified by the BMW engineers in white lab coats who have countless letters and abbreviations after their names.

Modern engines with their more exact tolerances have achieved near frictionless opposing component surfaces. It's exactly why the endless YouTube videos featuring "one-arm bandit" tests are so pathetic and profoundly stupid. The focus now is on flow and pressure. You guys are worrying about 0W-20 not being thick enough to mitigate wear when in fact you'll be promoting wear by using thicker oils like 5W-40 in these particular engines, by depriving your engine of oil when and where it needs it.

Beyond the engine, emissions systems are also specifically designed to accommodate or work in conjunction with the specified oil. SAPS and other contents, if not in the right amount, can kill (or poison) your catalytic converter.

These aren't your grandpa's tractors. The heavy in the summer and light in the winter... That logic worked with your dad's 1976 Ford LTD. To dismiss and ignore 2022 automotive and petrochemical engineering technology in deference to your "gut" or your "hunch" is, umm, slightly unwise in my opinion.

You do realize BMW, and others, have a history of changing their 0/5w30 to 0w20 to meet CAFE requirements (fleet-wide MPG averages) on engines they made zero internal changes to, right?

0w20 was NOT recommended because of space-age-fine-tolerances, but purely for improved MPG across a manufacturer's entire fleet of vehicles. And the more SUVs and trucks a manufacturer has, the more important it is to squeeze every 1/10th of improved MPG out of their cars to improve the overall averages.

This is why it's not uncommon to see a 0w20 recommendation for a car in the United States, while that EXACT same car/engine in Europe or Asia or Mexico or Canada or South America will carry a 0w30 or 0w40 recommendation, as CAFE only applies to the United States.

[Dinosoar]

Okay, all the tech talk and limited options for purchase, I'll flat out ask if my plan is a good one or not good one:

I will change my oil with the seasons...0-20 for Winter, 5-30 for Summer.

I will only a full synthetic, quality brand.

I will not worry about BMW's "Longlife-14FE+ or -17FE+" Standards (which appear to be ONLY 0-20) since I am adjusting (slightly) the weight to temps, and only having oil duty for six months/3000miles of use.

Does this sound okay to you hardcore "Only use BMW products for BMW cars and never deviate from the manual!" guys???

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Okay, all the tech talk and limited options for purchase, I'll flat out ask if my plan is a good one or not good one:

I will change my oil with the seasons...0-20 for Winter, 5-30 for Summer.

I will only a full synthetic, quality brand.

I will not worry about BMW's "Longlife-14FE+ or -17FE+" Standards (which appear to be ONLY 0-20) since I am adjusting (slightly) the weight to temps, and only having oil duty for six months/3000miles of use.

Does this sound okay to you hardcore "Only use BMW products for BMW cars and never deviate from the manual!" guys???

If you're not worrying about BMW's LL14&17, then I doubt the hardcore "Only use BMW products for BMW cars and never deviate from the manual!" guys will approve.

[Dinosoar]

Duly noted.

I once heard, quality, clean oil is best above all...I think my plan will be fine. The only reason I think I worry too much is that I'll be moving on to another BMW in two to three years anyway, so I should just keep it simple, drive the sh#t out of it, and buy an M2 in two years.

[Dinosoar]

Did my first DIY oil change on my 230 (B48) today at 5000 miles. I pulled out this much oil...less than 5L. What the hell??!?!

Sure, I spilled maybe a teaspoon (don't tell the EPA), stuff gathers on rags and the film left on the drain pan, but really, this seems rather low. Is BMW cheap, or do these engines burn off oil? It is my understanding they take 5.3L (5.7qts).

I'm not finding the oil fill level in the Owner's Manual...classic BMW, right? It was a rather easy oil change, just wish the level was an easier DIY bit. She's got a little heavier, LiquiMoly LL oil in there now, all ready for the hot summer months. I put in 5.25L. Though, it is not LL14 or 17, so don't crucify me over it you BMW Evangelicals.

Any thoughts on level and burn off, much appreciated. Comment on the oil weight if you want, but that topic's been beat to death.

[Rdurty2]

When you drain oil not all of the oil comes out of the car. There will always be oil that doesn’t drain out of oil coolers for example.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by Rdurty2

When you drain oil not all of the oil comes out of the car. There will always be oil that doesn’t drain out of oil coolers for example.

I didn't think about the oil coolers (230 has that?). Otherwise, seems a big disparity...if your right, then I have a quarter liter of S##T oil in there...no bueno.

I'll be on to an M2 inside of 24 months, so I guess I shouldn't fret over it.

[Dinosoar]

Correction: So, there is a measurement function for oil level in the BMW iDrive menu. It'll require the car to be running, level ground, warm oil, and it'll calculate (takes 2-3 minutes) the level, and display it as a vertical bar...like a digital dip stick essentially. Of course, embedded in a few menu pull-downs, like turning off your AC, classic BMW, I guess.

I'm still learning.

[Nordkeyz73]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

You do realize BMW, and others, have a history of changing their 0/5w30 to 0w20 to meet CAFE requirements (fleet-wide MPG averages) on engines they made zero internal changes to, right?

0w20 was NOT recommended because of space-age-fine-tolerances, but purely for improved MPG across a manufacturer's entire fleet of vehicles. And the more SUVs and trucks a manufacturer has, the more important it is to squeeze every 1/10th of improved MPG out of their cars to improve the overall averages.

This is why it's not uncommon to see a 0w20 recommendation for a car in the United States, while that EXACT same car/engine in Europe or Asia or Mexico or Canada or South America will carry a 0w30 or 0w40 recommendation, as CAFE only applies to the United States.

Could somebody verify that the Euro and US owner's manuals recommend the same/different oil grades? This would be a great comparison.

The manual posted on this forum does indeed mention 0w-20, but unsure if that is from BMW of North America.

EDIT: The provided manual is from BMWUSA. Anyone outside the US care to post what their manual states?

[bobkat09]

I live in a warm weather climate. I feel that 0w20 oil is too light for me

I have a hard time believing that the same oil weight that can be used in Canada is also the same for me in Arizona.

I think I’ll go with BMW 0w30 oil for all year around here

[TheoK]

Go visit your local dealership and go to the parts department and ask to see what oil weight is acceptable in their system for the M240i. You will be surprised what you see!

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Okay, let's kick off this topic...and oldie but a goodie; oil weight.

Most say just listen to BMW, but that 0-20 seems sooooo thin for hard driving in the Summer. Thoughts on a heavier weight? 5-30? Thicker?

Best stay with what BMW recommends.

BMW is the only authority on engine oil for its engines. If one chooses to ignore BMW he can use any reason or reasons he wants to justify using another oil. All are equal and all are equally invalid.

Here's what the BMW app for the 2 has to "say":

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by bobkat09

I live in a warm weather climate. I feel that 0w20 oil is too light for me

I think I’ll go with BMW 0w30 oil for all year around here

A lighter viscosity of oil can actually be better. It takes less energy to pump and it heats up less from the pumping.

The lighter viscosity oil can flow into the bearings better. Bearings which have clearances with the factory recommended oil viscosity in mind I might add. Generally engines intended for use on the street use smaller bearing clearances. The engine runs quieter and its oil budget is smaller.

The lighter viscosity oil can flow out of the bearing better which helps keep the oil temperature in the bearing lower.

Besides the usual areas of the engine lubricated by oil these engines have very sophisticated systems like variable valve timing and valve lift which are hydraulically operated. Have not come across this in the BMW world yet but with at least another brand of car owners who went from using a 0w-20 oil to a 0w-30 (or 5w-30) oil reported problems with one of the engine's systems.

Best advice I can offer is use the oil BMW recommends. Don't run it too long. My SOP with other car engines has been to change the oil every 5K miles. Based on my usage this has the oil changed *before* it starts to manifest any real issues from the miles.

I plan on servicing my 230i's oil/filter every 5K miles.

[bobkat09]

After reading through all these posts there is a lot of conflicting information. Some say that 0w20 oil is recommended only because of the increased mileage benefit. Others say that heavier is not recommended because of tight engine tolerances. Still others say the lighter oil will cause premature engine wear in the long run

Very confusing.

BMW also offers conflicting information. I traded my 2020 M240 in on the new 2023 I’m currently waiting on. The owners manual for the 2020 recommended 0w20 or 0w30 oil. Whereas the new 2023 only recommends 0w20. Also I believe that the US market is the only market that recommends only the 0w20 oil for the mileage benefit.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by bobkat09

After reading through all these posts there is a lot of conflicting information. Some say that 0w20 oil is recommended only because of the increased mileage benefit. Others say that heavier is not recommended because of tight engine tolerances. Still others say the lighter oil will cause premature engine wear in the long run

Very confusing.

BMW also offers conflicting information. I traded my 2020 M240 in on the new 2023 I’m currently waiting on. The owners manual for the 2020 recommended 0w20 or 0w30 oil. Whereas the new 2023 only recommends 0w20. Also I believe that the US market is the only market that recommends only the 0w20 oil for the mileage benefit.

That's because the rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass what our Congress has to say...

In December 2007, Congress passed an updated CAFE law mandating that new cars, SUVs, and light trucks together average 35 mpg by 2020, an increase of 40% from the previous 25 mpg average. As of 2014, manufacturers were meeting standards of 34.2 mpg for passenger cars and 26.2 mpg for light trucks.

To help meet these MPG standards auto manufacturers have to pull every trick they have out of the hat, which includes very thin oil (minimal internal resistance) to prioritizes MPG over protection; albeit the protection is sufficient. If you're happy with "sufficient", then 20 weight oil is right for you.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

A lighter viscosity of oil can actually be better. It takes less energy to pump and it heats up less from the pumping.

The lighter viscosity oil can flow into the bearings better. Bearings which have clearances with the factory recommended oil viscosity in mind I might add. Generally engines intended for use on the street use smaller bearing clearances. The engine runs quieter and its oil budget is smaller.

The lighter viscosity oil can flow out of the bearing better which helps keep the oil temperature in the bearing lower.

Besides the usual areas of the engine lubricated by oil these engines have very sophisticated systems like variable valve timing and valve lift which are hydraulically operated. Have not come across this in the BMW world yet but with at least another brand of car owners who went from using a 0w-20 oil to a 0w-30 (or 5w-30) oil reported problems with one of the engine's systems.

Best advice I can offer is use the oil BMW recommends. Don't run it too long. My SOP with other car engines has been to change the oil every 5K miles. Based on my usage this has the oil changed *before* it starts to manifest any real issues from the miles.

I plan on servicing my 230i's oil/filter every 5K miles.

BMWtuning is a powerhouse authority on all things BMW, including the B58 engine. I copied/pasted what they had to say about bearings in the B58, as well as the oil weight they recommend below...

----------

B58 Rods & Rod Bearings (600-700whp)
As with most BMW engines, the B58 rods and rod bearings are one of the biggest limiting factors. At 550+wtq they're usually one of the first parts to let go. One bad engine knock can quickly bend the B58 rods or even send one out the block.

Low-end torque is a big factor here. At lower RPMs the pistons and rods are moving slower. That subjects the B58 cylinders to high pressure for extended periods. Thereby increasing the risk of a serious pre-detonation event.

Poor oil and oil flow are the biggest killers of B58 rod bearings. High-G corners can cause oil starvation which puts a lot of stress on critical rod bearings. Otherwise, change the oil on time and stick with quality oils.

----------

What Oil Weights Are Approved on the B58?
The recommended oil weight from BMW is 0W-20. They also recommend using an LL-14 FE+ approved fuel. However, LL14FE oils are designed with fuel economy in mind. LL01 approved oils will also work well on the B58. Ultimately, 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, and 5W-30 will all work well. Some B58 owners even opt to run 0W-40 or 5W-40.

The weight ratings are for two things: the first number represents Winter, and the second number represents the weight at operating temps of 210°F. We recommend running a 0W-30 weight oil on the B58. However, those in hot climates may be better suited to 5W-30.

----------

https://bmwtuning.co/how-much-power-...mw-b58-handle/

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-b58-faq/

[TheoK]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

BMWtuning is a powerhouse authority on all things BMW, including the B58 engine. I copied/pasted what they had to say about bearings in the B58, as well as the oil weight they recommend below...

----------

B58 Rods & Rod Bearings (600-700whp)
As with most BMW engines, the B58 rods and rod bearings are one of the biggest limiting factors. At 550+wtq they're usually one of the first parts to let go. One bad engine knock can quickly bend the B58 rods or even send one out the block.

Low-end torque is a big factor here. At lower RPMs the pistons and rods are moving slower. That subjects the B58 cylinders to high pressure for extended periods. Thereby increasing the risk of a serious pre-detonation event.

Poor oil and oil flow are the biggest killers of B58 rod bearings. High-G corners can cause oil starvation which puts a lot of stress on critical rod bearings. Otherwise, change the oil on time and stick with quality oils.

----------

What Oil Weights Are Approved on the B58?
The recommended oil weight from BMW is 0W-20. They also recommend using an LL-14 FE+ approved fuel. However, LL14FE oils are designed with fuel economy in mind. LL01 approved oils will also work well on the B58. Ultimately, 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, and 5W-30 will all work well. Some B58 owners even opt to run 0W-40 or 5W-40.

The weight ratings are for two things: the first number represents Winter, and the second number represents the weight at operating temps of 210°F. We recommend running a 0W-30 weight oil on the B58. However, those in hot climates may be better suited to 5W-30.

----------

https://bmwtuning.co/how-much-power-...mw-b58-handle/

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-b58-faq/

Yes exactly what I was showed at the dealership! 0W30 & 5W30 (LL01 FE) are also approved for 2022 M240i.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

BMWtuning is a powerhouse authority on all things BMW, including the B58 engine. I copied/pasted what they had to say about bearings in the B58, as well as the oil weight they recommend below...

----------

B58 Rods & Rod Bearings (600-700whp)
As with most BMW engines, the B58 rods and rod bearings are one of the biggest limiting factors. At 550+wtq they're usually one of the first parts to let go. One bad engine knock can quickly bend the B58 rods or even send one out the block.

Low-end torque is a big factor here. At lower RPMs the pistons and rods are moving slower. That subjects the B58 cylinders to high pressure for extended periods. Thereby increasing the risk of a serious pre-detonation event.

Poor oil and oil flow are the biggest killers of B58 rod bearings. High-G corners can cause oil starvation which puts a lot of stress on critical rod bearings. Otherwise, change the oil on time and stick with quality oils.

----------

What Oil Weights Are Approved on the B58?
The recommended oil weight from BMW is 0W-20. They also recommend using an LL-14 FE+ approved fuel. However, LL14FE oils are designed with fuel economy in mind. LL01 approved oils will also work well on the B58. Ultimately, 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, and 5W-30 will all work well. Some B58 owners even opt to run 0W-40 or 5W-40.

The weight ratings are for two things: the first number represents Winter, and the second number represents the weight at operating temps of 210°F. We recommend running a 0W-30 weight oil on the B58. However, those in hot climates may be better suited to 5W-30.

----------

https://bmwtuning.co/how-much-power-...mw-b58-handle/

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-b58-faq/

I have a hard time accepting that some aftermarket company is better informed than the engine manufacturer (automaker).

This: "The weight ratings are for two things: the first number represents Winter, and the second number represents the weight at operating temps of 210°F. We recommend running a 0W-30 weight oil on the B58. However, those in hot climates may be better suited to 5W-30."

doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

One the 2nd number represents the oil's viscosity at 212F not 210F. Yeah not a big error but still...

And I find it funny (and sad at the same time) that 0w-30 oil is recommended but for those in "hot climates" may want to use 5w-30 oil.

How a higher cold viscosity index, 5w, would help the oil deliver better lubrication in hot climates is beyond me.

It is things like the above that even more convince me the auto maker is the authority on what oil to use in its engines.

I drive my 230i with the oil temperature and pressure displayed. It is interesting to see how well controlled the oil temperature is with once the oil is up to "operating temperature" the temperature hovering around the 215F range.

With my previous cars, a Dodge Scat Pack, and before that a Dodge Hellcat, oil temperature would climb to 240F just driving in town. Admittedly 240F is not that hot and the oil pressure was good. ~30psi with the Scat Pack, and ~38psi with the Hellcat.

But it appears BMW has better oil temperature control.

As for oil pressure, it is very interesting to watch the oil pressure and how dynamic the pressure is under various operating conditions.

I believe the engine is fitted with a variable displacement oil pump. (At least this is how Porsche provided for variable oil pressure.)

It is interesting just how little oil pressure the engine needs under common situations like driving at a steady speed on surface streets or even on the freeway.

'course, at other times -- under acceleration -- the pressure is increased but once the load drops oil pressure is lowered.

My 230i has not yet 3K miles on it but I have driven it in 100F+ ambient temperature (and sometimes in a rather spirited fashion) and the engine is fine. If the oil was not up to snuff, if the oil flow/pressure was not adequate, the engine would not be fine. Insufficient oil flow or pressure doesn't take a bazillion miles to make its presence known.

So I can with full confidence and no 2nd thoughts continue to drive/enjoy my BMW with 0w-20 in the engine.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

And I find it funny (and sad at the same time) that 0w-30 oil is recommended but for those in "hot climates" may want to use 5w-30 oil.

How a higher cold viscosity index, 5w, would help the oil deliver better lubrication in hot climates is beyond me.

If you live in a hot climate why would you want to start your day with a thinner flowing oil (0w) prior to operating temperature?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

If you live in a hot climate why would you want to start your day with a thinner flowing oil (0w) prior to operating temperature?

To get the oil flowing quicker upon cold start. Even if one is in a hot climate the oil in the pan is still way way colder than its operating temperature of 212F.

Sure the "0w" is the oil's viscosity at 0F. My 230i parked in detached garage and with no insulation to speak of on a hot day can be 100F. Maybe under these circumstances the oil flow difference between 0w-XX and 5w-XX is insignificant. But the factory calls for 0w-XX. And not every "cold" start of the engine is with the oil at approx. 100F...