[mh4k]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

You're gonna be very disappointed by the 8ZF if you're coming from any dual clutch, let alone a GT-R.

It’s not quite as as immediate as the DCT but with the transmission in 3 it’s close enough IMO. The only thing I’d say is manual shifting in D mode sometimes feels a bit delayed and sometimes is seems to refuse to shift. So I just put it in S whenever I start the car. In S and 3 I don’t think there’s much to complain about compared to the DCT and being a torque converter you don’t get any of the jerkiness or hesitancy in stop and go/parking speeds. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Had a MT on every sports car I’ve had. One of many burning desires for an M2 was 6MT + Turbo + RWD goodness.

However, with the 2025 autos getting FORTY+ more ft lb torque and since this will be my daily in-town commuter and the fact that the S58 is not the most torquey thing down low where I’d be 90% of the time… I gotta say I’ve started to wonder if I should do the auto.

Those in a similar position regret their decision either way they went?

It is unfortunate my lifestyle and commute doesn’t lend itself to a whole lot of fast driving where I’d really get to wrap the car out, but it is what it is. I also ended up quite tired of shifting my old 135i after 4 years of ownership. The shifter in that car sucked pretty bad. The G87’s 6MT is already quite a bit better than that.

But from a daily city car, I think the gearing of the auto and an extra 40-50 ft lbs down low, it would be quite the fun car.

Any input?

Given your usage of the M2 that extra 40-50 ft lbs of torque won't make any real noticeable difference.

With my M2 -- with a 6-speed manual -- and using the sport displays to monitor among other things HP and torque my M2 doesn't require that much torque to get it moving from a stop. So even with just 406 ft lbs of torque over 200 ft lbs of that torque are not needed. The 2025 with 456 ft lbs of torque means instead of around 200 ft lbs of torque being left on the table -- so to speak -- instead over 250 ft lbs of torque will be left on the table.

It is clear to me that if I was to try to use all 406 ft lbs of torque from a stop the torque would likely go up in tire smoke.

What will make itself known is the auto's gearing and especially its short shifting feature. For your usage this will mean better fuel economy.

Coupled with not having to deal with shifting a manual I think there's a good case made for you having the automatic.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by kenairways

Gahhhh, this thread wants me to switch my order to a manual.

Reason I order with a auto because I was impressed with the DCT in my GTR. Now I'm starting to realize this ZF gearbox is lacking the aggressiveness of BMW's DCT. And I'm in search to test drive the ZF and considering switching to manual to join the team...

If the GTR were offered with a manual, I wouldn’t even be here. I would have picked a GTR up back when they were the same price as an M2 or even M3 and probably still have it. I might even be in a newer Shelby Gt500 if they offered manual.

I bought the M2 because of the manual and S58. I like the M2 design and BMW interior is going to be way better than a lot of other choices but I don’t care about luxury, just having fun behind the wheel and 3 pedals and rowing your own gears is more engaging. Extra power won’t matter as my car will eventually be tuned.

I only buy manual cars, my M2, STi and Bronco are all manuals. Save the manuals!

[KC87ZB]

Like a few others, if not for the MT I likely would not have bought the M2. I do like the ZF8, it is a great automatic so I don't want to bash it, had one in my Giulia. There are a lot of good choices with AT's in this price range.

[izzyM2]

It does not shift like a Porsche because it’s not. It does not shift like a Type R because it’s not. And it might never be as fast as a GT-R or even an AUTOMATIC G87 but ones you’re rowing gears yourself in it and specially close to redlining it in a manual all those things don’t matter but that big joker smile in your face.

BMWs shifter feel is different from any other brands but it does not necessarily mean it’s bad. It’s all about timing it right every time you shift. It does not take just a drive test to determine. At first few weeks or even months you focus and get use to the cars character and apply shifting in different rpms and see what the car likes then it will eventually becomes second nature to you. Manual sport cars is all about engagement and really just about more control. My opinion only manuals can be as fast as any automatics in the hands of the proper driver.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by kenairways

Gahhhh, this thread wants me to switch my order to a manual.

Reason I order with a auto because I was impressed with the DCT in my GTR. Now I'm starting to realize this ZF gearbox is lacking the aggressiveness of BMW's DCT. And I'm in search to test drive the ZF and considering switching to manual to join the team...

you should definitely try and drive a ZF8 M2, in the most aggressive gearbox setting and shifting above ~4k rpm with healthy throttle application it feels like a porsche PDK and the old BMW SMT in the M6 combined together. Way more character then the current DCT on the market which feel pretty clinical and almost 'too good', and then you can dial it back down and it's super smooth for traffic/cruising.

I think unless you're dead set on getting a manual you shouldn't. These cars/engines were designed primarily with the ZF8 and then the manual was dropped in

[two_three_two]

would not have bought an M2 if not for stick. would have also taken M240 if offered with one.

[JMcLellan]

I was tempted by the auto transmission option as I was coming from a M240i with the same 8 speed ZF transmission and really liked it. When I placed my order and submitted by build I was not aware of the power hikes the 2025 MY automatics would get. However, I don't know if that would have changed my mind from getting the 6 mt. The test drive I had with a 6mt brought me back to my manual transmission car days and I needed to get back to that driving style. If for some reason I wasn't able to get a 6mt I would still be happy with the auto.

[Mr. Hankey]

I have driven both and everything everyone says is true. If you want to "feel" the acceleration and immediacy of the S58 then go with the Auto. I would much prefer the DCT but the ZF transmission is no slouch and with 8 shorter gears the feel of the animal will be completely different than the manual. They are 2 different flavors of the same animal. Step on the auto anywhere and it will just go immediately. And you can coast easily in traffic. Step on the manual and it will go if you're in the right rev range. I find I've adapted to all my manuals over the years and tend to drive with my rev range naturally in the transition point of where torque comes on.

The manual makes this car seem more like a NA engine (did a test drive). It is less immediate down low than the F80 was. I think the stock ECU tune on the manual is also designed to start the torque curve low so it's smooth and you aren't immediately smoking your tires. That also saves the clutch a bit of the lifetime of the car. With the manual then it needs to be driven differently - higher RPM ranges in any particular gear or downshifting to get more revs if you want the immediacy of the s58 to be there. The 0-60 times are just that, they aren't far off of each other, but how they achieve that is different. The ZF will feel fast, the manual will be fast but not feel it.

I've driven manuals my entire life, I sold my manual F80 daily a couple years ago at the peak of the used car prices and like others mentioned am just jonesing for another daily manual, making the M2 an absolute no brainer. I miss the conscious and unconscious interaction and connection with a manual car, and nailing downshifts. I'm past the point in my life that I care about outright power or speed, but if you aren't then auto might be better.

I'm currently daily driving a Ford Expedition so I'd be happy with an M2 in Auto, Manual, or one with Oars at this point haha! (edit: M-performance Oars )

[Kayger12]

The reviews had me intrigued by the auto, but it was never a serious consideration. Getting this car was always about the (last) MT.

Still occasionally commute my '05 ZHP MT and have way more of a blast driving that 235 HP, 20 year old BMW than current-gen autos I've driven with much more HP.

Ironically, will probs need to drive them the same as the M54 needs to be right around the VANOS stutter range at ~4K and up to get the power.

A great reminder lately that, for me, the driver's experience I enjoy most is more about the total package than the go-fast stats alone.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

you should definitely try and drive a ZF8 M2, in the most aggressive gearbox setting and shifting above ~4k rpm with healthy throttle application it feels like a porsche PDK and the old BMW SMT in the M6 combined together. Way more character then the current DCT on the market which feel pretty clinical and almost 'too good', and then you can dial it back down and it's super smooth for traffic/cruising.

I think unless you're dead set on getting a manual you shouldn't. These cars/engines were designed primarily with the ZF8 and then the manual was dropped in

It by ‘designed for’ you mean capped to 7200 RPM because the ZF gearbox cannot handle any higher then yeah I guess 🙂

The ZF does not feel anything like as quick as a Porsche PDK, especially on downshifts. The PDK especially in the GT cars is imperceptibly quick. The ZF is very good though, hence why so many manufacturers use it. But there is a reason you don’t find it in sports cars from Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, McLaren etc.

They did a lot of development on the manual for this car, BMW released some specific videos on the changes when the M4/M4 was released. It’s the same Getrag unit they have been using for generations, it’s very robust.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

It by ‘designed for’ you mean capped to 7200 RPM because the ZF gearbox cannot handle any higher then yeah I guess 🙂

The ZF does not feel anything like as quick as a Porsche PDK, especially on downshifts. The PDK especially in the GT cars is imperceptibly quick. The ZF is very good though, hence why so many manufacturers use it. But there is a reason you don’t find it in sports cars from Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, McLaren etc.

They did a lot of development on the manual for this car, BMW released some specific videos on the changes when the M4/M4 was released. It’s the same Getrag unit they have been using for generations, it’s very robust.

Getrag?

The M4 uses the same ZF the M2 uses, no?

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Getrag?

The M4 uses the same ZF the M2 uses, no?

The 8 speed AT is made by ZF. The manual is made by Getrag. BMW have beeb using Getrag for their manual boxes since the E36 at least. Getrag also made the DCT gearbox from the E9x M3 that was shared with the Ferrari 458.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The 8 speed AT is made by ZF. The manual is made by Getrag. BMW have beeb using Getrag for their manual boxes since the E36 at least. Getrag also made the DCT gearbox from the E9x M3 that was shared with the Ferrari 458.

That’s not correct.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...tickshift.html

[aerobod]

The only current M-car manual transmission is the GS6-L55TZ variant of the S6-53 transmission manufactured by ZF, part number 23-00-9-501-831.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Montaver

It by ‘designed for’ you mean capped to 7200 RPM because the ZF gearbox cannot handle any higher then yeah I guess 🙂

The ZF does not feel anything like as quick as a Porsche PDK, especially on downshifts. The PDK especially in the GT cars is imperceptibly quick. The ZF is very good though, hence why so many manufacturers use it. But there is a reason you don’t find it in sports cars from Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, McLaren etc.

They did a lot of development on the manual for this car, BMW released some specific videos on the changes when the M4/M4 was released. It’s the same Getrag unit they have been using for generations, it’s very robust.

I meant when they were designing the S58 it was a ZF8 box that was the gearbox component of the powertrain, not a 6-speed.

And yeah the PDK and volkswagen group's variant of it are insanely quick shifting but to me it makes it a bit boring and clinical. This box has some style to it, just a bit of a pause/shove on upshifts reminiscent of the bigass pause/shove that the SMT had in the M6 I got to drive a fair bit back in the day, sure it wasn't "fast shifting" but man was it an event every time you grabbed a paddle.

[///M TOWN]

IMO… The ZF8 better suits the engine and the car itself

I’ve driven both variations aggressively multiple times and the zf8 in setting 3 is actually surprisingly good…

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

I meant when they were designing the S58 it was a ZF8 box that was the gearbox component of the powertrain, not a 6-speed.

And yeah the PDK and volkswagen group's variant of it are insanely quick shifting but to me it makes it a bit boring and clinical. This box has some style to it, just a bit of a pause/shove on upshifts reminiscent of the bigass pause/shove that the SMT had in the M6 I got to drive a fair bit back in the day, sure it wasn't "fast shifting" but man was it an event every time you grabbed a paddle.

It certainly has a character of its own, I think it matches boosty lower revving turbo engines nicely. I don’t think it would pair that well with an NA engine but unfortunately BMW don’t make those anymore.

[Celestion]

I have a g80 with the ZF8. What happens is that I put it in drive and just zone out. Same as I would in a Camry. Before the g80 I had an f80 manual. Never zoned out. I recently rented a shitty Mitsubishi in Iceland, was 6MT, and even though it was shitty a car, I never zoned out. IMO manual is a fundamentally different experience vs auto. Manual cars aren’t for people who like driving, they are for people who like manuals. I don’t really like driving unless it’s a manual.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by Celestion

What happens is that I put it in drive and just zone out.

This is what I’m afraid of.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Celestion

I have a g80 with the ZF8. What happens is that I put it in drive and just zone out. Same as I would in a Camry. Before the g80 I had an f80 manual. Never zoned out. I recently rented a shitty Mitsubishi in Iceland, was 6MT, and even though it was shitty a car, I never zoned out. IMO manual is a fundamentally different experience vs auto. Manual cars aren’t for people who like driving, they are for people who like manuals. I don’t really like driving unless it’s a manual.

I get in, hit M1 button which is set for manual shifting (among other things) and drive off

[1stM]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

This is what I’m afraid of.

Just hit the M2 button, and keep rpm above 4K with the paddle shifter.