[FieldingMellish]

Hello E90 people! Long time no post. Looking for some advice on moving from the E90 to an F30.

So I am now faced with the inevitability of having to trade in my aging E90 330i M Sport auto Sedan (2009 model, pre LCI), and was thinking of sticking with BMW (of course), but maybe opting for something less thirsty.

So my default option would be an F30 320d auto M Sport, and I'm a bit out of date re. the crucial differences between the old and new versions of this car. Is the 320d as well regarded in its F30 iteration as it was in the E90?

I'm particularly interested in the following areas:

- Ride and handling.

This is what sold me on BMWs in general, way back when, and it's what keeps me from considering a switch to an Audi or Mercedes etc. How does the handling compare?


- Steering

Like many, I don't much like the electronic steering on my car, I prefer the hydraulic feel of the older (and some later i.e. LCI) 3 Series models. What's the steering like on an F30? What options are available (servotronic, etc)?


- Suspension

I've heard the F30 M Sport suspension is different. How?


- Steering Wheel

I see the F30 has a different 'sport' steering wheel. Is it as nice and chunky as the E90 one?


- M Sport Plus package

I guess this is the way to go, spec-wise, for an M Sport adherent. I could live without the 19" wheels, but otherwise this seems to be worth having?

- 320d auto refinement

Coming from a 330i, but having had a (manual) 320d E90 in the past, what can I expect from the F30 320d, in auto form?


All general advice appreciated

Cheers
FM

[edowen]

320d is a great car, no doubt, but coming from a 6 cyl 330i I think you are going to feel short changed.

Whats the budget and can you stretch to a 330d?

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by edowen

320d is a great car, no doubt, but coming from a 6 cyl 330i I think you are going to feel short changed.

Whats the budget and can you stretch to a 330d?

Hello. Thanks for that. Well, yes I could potentially stretch to the 330d, but my priority is economy now, rather than performance. When I first got the 330i, I really enjoyed the power (coupled with the handling) but now I find I have much more power than I need. I would happily swap that for fewer stops at the petrol station.

[ahmedb]

The main differences you will notice are much newer tech, a much more comfortable drive but less steering feel. The steering wheel is a little skinnier but as the steering is electronic/servotronc, you don't really need a chunky wheel as the steering feel is some what artificial. The 320d is super economical and cheap to tax, they come with the start/stop efficient dynamics function which helps with city driving. The 20d is capable enough power wise, more than enough for overtaking but my dilemma coming from a 330d was not just the noticeable drop in power but also the different sound and for motorway cruising, the 330d was much better.

You will find that the F30 330d is very close in terms of running costs to the 320d. Road tax is still cheap and you can realistically achieve 45mpg. You will feel,a huge fuel saving between an f30 330d and your E90 330i.

I'd definitely go for a 330d, if your budget permits which you say it does. You will be pleasantly surprised with how far a tank of fuel takes you, circa 550-600 miles I think

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by ahmedb

The main differences you will notice are much newer tech, a much more comfortable drive but less steering feel. The steering wheel is a little skinnier but as the steering is electronic/servotronc, you don't really need a chunky wheel as the steering feel is some what artificial. The 320d is super economical and cheap to tax, they come with the start/stop efficient dynamics function which helps with city driving. The 20d is capable enough power wise, more than enough for overtaking but my dilemma coming from a 330d was not just the noticeable drop in power but also the different sound and for motorway cruising, the 330d was much better.

You will find that the F30 330d is very close in terms of running costs to the 320d. Road tax is still cheap and you can realistically achieve 45mpg. You will feel,a huge fuel saving between an f30 330d and your E90 330i.

I'd definitely go for a 330d, if your budget permits which you say it does. You will be pleasantly surprised with how far a tank of fuel takes you, circa 550-600 miles I think

How does your F30 320d compare to your old 330D in terms of MPG?

[ahmedb]

Originally Posted by E60525d

How does your F30 320d compare to your old 330D in terms of MPG?

E90 330d manual, circa 44mpg.
F31 320d auto, circa 52/53mpg. Only had the F31 for 2 weeks, already sold it. I missed the power and 6 pot refinement

[FieldingMellish]

Thanks. I might consider a 330d.

Originally Posted by ahmedb

The main differences you will notice are much newer tech, a much more comfortable drive but less steering feel. The steering wheel is a little skinnier but as the steering is electronic/servotronc, you don't really need a chunky wheel as the steering feel is some what artificial.

Hmm. Well, I already find my steering is too light. Mine has the electronic steering, not the hydraulic, and I have never liked it. I know later E90 models had the electronic steering 'de-specced' and reverted to hydraulic steering (with or without servotronic) but mine has the electronic. I do see some F30 models advertised as having 'servotronic', but I thought that only worked with hydraulic, how does it fit with electronic?

[edowen]

I got 38mpg real world in 2.5 years of a 640d. 52mpg out of an e90 320d ED. 31 ou of my 270bhp 330i. I think high 30's low 40;s should be easily achievable with a 330d.

[Olly_P]

Yup, I'd go for the 330D. I'm getting 42mpg out of my 330D LCI, i'd imagine the F30 would be similar if not better.

[ahmedb]

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

I have a 320 D. One of 5 in the UK that is pretty much loaded to the brim bar heated seats and M Sport Braking system: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1240100

Steering: The steering is the first most annoying thing. It is over servo-ed and probably designed after complaints from old men saying that the E90 steering was too hard. The steering feels disconnected as a result the whole drive feels disconnected / disengaging. It doesn't feel special or 'BMW' but feels like any other steering. It does not make for a good driving experience.

Suspension: Adaptive suspension is the only way. There is no other way.

Power Train / DDE / DME: Has been designed to prolong/preserve the drive train parts / power train parts. As a result there is a noticeable and annoying throttle lag (note, throttle lag not turbo lag). You can get used to this. My work around is to lightly press the throttle and introduce some low revs before flooring it. If you attempt to floor it from stand still then be prepared to look like an idiot as the car does not move for 0.6 seconds or 0.2 in sport mode. Some say it is minor but it really bugs me. You can have it corrected with a sprint booster or the likes but beware of your warranty becoming void.

Transmission / Drive Train: The 8 Speed Transmission is flawless. So smooth!

Performance Pack: The performance can be increased with the BMW Performance pack. See here for a beautiful write up: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=562073 Simon (e-maps) who comes highly recommended cracked the ECU a while ago and can remap this. It takes up to 4 hours to do but a remap will see you near 330D threatening performance. To be used wisely of course as the turbo will be on it's knees with a full power remap.

Fuel Economy: My figures are no where near the claimed figures but I am still breaking into the engine. It has improved. From 0-1000 miles we saw 33mpg avg... this has gradually increased to 38 mpg avg and continues to increase. On that note it is more economical than a 330d and just as fun to drive. So you can have the fun factor without losing out too much on mpg.

Sound Insulation and Driving: Sound insulation in the cabin is amazing for a tractor. Under the bonnet you will see that there are shock absorption paraphernalia attached to the bottom half of the engine that aid to balance out the vibrations. As a result you don't feel excessive vibration in your butt although you can hear it at times. On the move it is pretty much like a petrol equivalent and things quieten down. Around town and when cold the diesel is not too muted and can feel like a bag of nails... but when it is up to operating temperature it is wonderful.

Package recommendations: I wouldn't want this without HUD, HK and the Surround View Camera. These are some of the most marvelous options one can specify.

Those mpg figures are quite low for a 320d but is that because you do a lot of street driving in London?

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

I have a 320 D. One of 5 in the UK that is pretty much loaded to the brim bar heated seats and M Sport Braking system: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1240100

Steering: The steering is the first most annoying thing. It is over servo-ed and probably designed after complaints from old men saying that the E90 steering was too hard. The steering feels disconnected as a result the whole drive feels disconnected / disengaging. It doesn't feel special or 'BMW' but feels like any other steering. It does not make for a good driving experience..............

Many thanks for that detailed reply, and for being the first person to actually address the specifics of my question rather than just shouting "get a 330d!" ;-)

On the other hand, that sounds very discouraging indeed. Actually, having looked around at what's available, in terms of used 320d/330d models, and taking into account factors such as the above - not to mention prices and aesthetics - I am now seriously considering going over to the dark side and trying a Mercedes C Class....

[pmmcbl]

C-class?! I didn't see that coming. I have driven several and I didn't like the handling, too soft. Great cruiser on the motorway but once out I didn't like it.

[The0pportunist]

My mate has a 2015 C220 C Class. It is actually brilliantly smooth and refined. It is also plenty fast, feels more like a 6 cylinder.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

In fairness the F30 is starting to look a bit long in the tooth. It came out in 2011. The C Class began production in 2015 and was out then / early 2016. The only thing I dislike about the C is that ugly iPad esque screen with thick bezel. It is enough to ruin the centre dash. We test drove one and the only reason I settled on the 320d was because it was like a barn yard find... Felt more performance and luxury. If you want out and out luxury though the Mercedes would be worth a second glance. Other than the horrid screen in the centre the interior is in another league and it is like being in a world of your own. How they do it, I haven't the foggiest idea.

The C Class has been available for a couple of years, one of family members has one since 2014.

[raptor_f22]

I wouldn't recommend a C Class (or Chinese class as my autocorrect wanted to call it! Bizarre..) unless you go for the top spec AMG kit. I've driven a couple and whilst they're comfortable they're just boring to drive and the interior is tacky and cheap to the touch I think.
The steering doesn't have much of a feel, the 2 litre feels underpowered and unrefined, you put your foot down and the power comes in a big bucket then quickly disappears.
On the upside, if you're after economy the eco mode on the merc will suit you. It's pretty good.

Don't know what you guys think but a number of fellow bimmer lovers have started switching to the 4 series as they say it's "the new 3 series", with bmw putting more into it. I haven't been in one or driven one so can't say.

Have been in my mates 2 series though and was astonished, sexy bit of kit and he went for the 2 litre turbo petrol - nippy little thing, well kitted out, great suspension which for an M sport didn't feel too stiff and the handling was great when he threw it around.
Did make me me laugh that it came with launch control...

[mob17]

In my F10 520d i can get 55mpg easy on the motorway, got 60mpg once using eco pro mode. Obviously cruising at 70 and some parts 50.

Steering is a real let down , but i see the F10 as more of a comfy cruiser rather than a handling car, so it does fit well with the rest of the car. Have my 335d for that with hydraulic steering

[FieldingMellish]

FWIW I tried a C Class Mercedes yesterday and no way would I buy one. Can harldy believe it's a rear wheel drive, fells more like an Audi. Cruises well on the motorway but there's no feel to it at all, and the seats (even the sport seats) aren't a patch on the BMW Sport seats. Overall teh C Class was a let down. I tried a C220d Sport auto saloon. It wasn't hugely powerful but that wouldn't be a problem, and to be fair it was smooth for a diesel. But there was just no sportiness to it at all, it's like driving a limo. Also despite teh reputation I didn't find myself impressed by the interior, Took my kid over to the local BMW garage today and sat in a few F30 models - much better.

[ewanc]

I have the Lci E90 320ed. I tend to do mostly urban driving and was seeing around 56mpg.

Took it to Cornwall and back (from Glasgow). 1043 miles, 2hrs of stop start traffic, 70mpg average speed of 63. I wasn't doing anything mental, but wasn't hanging about. I've previously got 75mpg, but that took serious effort and driving miss daisey

ETA: I went from the e92 330d to this. Always regret it

[FieldingMellish]

Hello. Thought I'd give you some feedback on your helpful comments, having now had my F30 330d for a couple of weeks...

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

I have a 320 D. One of 5 in the UK that is pretty much loaded to the brim bar heated seats and M Sport Braking system: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1240100

Steering: The steering is the first most annoying thing. It is over servo-ed and probably designed after complaints from old men saying that the E90 steering was too hard. The steering feels disconnected as a result the whole drive feels disconnected / disengaging. It doesn't feel special or 'BMW' but feels like any other steering. It does not make for a good driving experience.

It's an odd one, this. I always hated the steering on my old E90. I had 3 E90 models - 318i, 320d, 330i - and they all had that very light electric steering. Some E90s had hydrauic, but all of mine had electric. And the 330i had the lightest, floatiest steering, with no feel at all to it, and it didn't even feel planted when going straight. So the F30 steering, with servotronic, is actually a huge step up for me, and I love it. I'd prefer it heavier, but it seems to tighten up in Sport mode, and it's streets ahead of what I was used to.

The M Sport steering wheel, one of the great pleasures of the E90, was smaller and chunkier than the F90's wheel, and although teh latter is very nice, to my mind the E90 one had teh edge. Coupled with the fact that the F30 is slightly bigger than the E90, I find that, so far, the F30 isn't quite as nimble in tight manoeuvres. The turning cricle is, or feels, bigger, you have to turn the wheel what feels like a significant amount more to achieve the same sort of turn. I got badly caught out by this just minutes afetr leaving teh dealer's with the car, when I badly misjudged how tight a small dimple roundabout was...

Overall, though, the steering feel more tan makes up for all that. So this is a very definite win for the F30.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Suspension: Adaptive suspension is the only way. There is no other way.

Oh yes. I'd heard mixed reports about how desirable adaptive suspension is. Having tried it, I'd put it right up at the top of the spec list, above Xenons and Harman Kardon.

Being able to switch from comfort, with its beautifully dampened suspension that lets y9ou cruise over potholes as if you're in an Se, to the much sharper feel of the adaptive, really does transform the car's handling. Every F30 should have this, without a doubt.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Power Train / DDE / DME: Has been designed to prolong/preserve the drive train parts / power train parts. As a result there is a noticeable and annoying throttle lag (note, throttle lag not turbo lag). You can get used to this. My work around is to lightly press the throttle and introduce some low revs before flooring it. If you attempt to floor it from stand still then be prepared to look like an idiot as the car does not move for 0.6 seconds or 0.2 in sport mode. Some say it is minor but it really bugs me. You can have it corrected with a sprint booster or the likes but beware of your warranty becoming void.

I haven't become familiar enough yet to really judge this. Coming from the 330i, here it feels like I have more raw power, bit of course it's delivered entirely differently. Probably a bad way of putting it, but I'd say the 330i was punchy whereas the 330d is muscular. Flipping the auto over into sport transmission mode makes nowhere near as much difference in the 300d as in the 330i, where you really had to keep in mind that you were in Sport mode, so you didn't lunge forwards at the wring time. I still haven't quite acclimatized to just how quick I have to be with the 330d if I want to get out of a junction, or into a roundabout, quickly.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Transmission / Drive Train: The 8 Speed Transmission is flawless. So smooth!

Yep. It's a gem.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Fuel Economy: My figures are no where near the claimed figures but I am still breaking into the engine. It has improved. From 0-1000 miles we saw 33mpg avg... this has gradually increased to 38 mpg avg and continues to increase. On that note it is more economical than a 330d and just as fun to drive. So you can have the fun factor without losing out too much on mpg.

Oh well, me neither. SO far I'm at mid 30s in mpg, but then I'm not exactly driving with an eye to fuel economy at the minute. That said, I had a little run at lunch time the other day, in sport mode all the time, playing freely with the engine, for about 25 miles or so, and it came in at around 38 mpg overall.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Sound Insulation and Driving: Sound insulation in the cabin is amazing for a tractor. Under the bonnet you will see that there are shock absorption paraphernalia attached to the bottom half of the engine that aid to balance out the vibrations. As a result you don't feel excessive vibration in your butt although you can hear it at times. On the move it is pretty much like a petrol equivalent and things quieten down. Around town and when cold the diesel is not too muted and can feel like a bag of nails... but when it is up to operating temperature it is wonderful.

Hmmmm. I'm not wildly over-impressed in this department. It's not bad, but maybe a bit louder than I'd expected. Once it's warmed up, though, there is a nice growly undertone to it. Can't compete with the 330i, but still sounds nice when it's revving.

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

Package recommendations: I wouldn't want this without HUD, HK and the Surround View Camera. These are some of the most marvelous options one can specify.

Ach, I wouldn't be too fussed about HUD or the cameras. Coming from a car that used to have rear PDC but that hadn't worked in years, having front and rear, with the 'radar' display on the screen, is like being issued with a Bond car by Q. The Karman Kardon sounds good, but maybe not quite the revelation some claim. There seems to be a hole in teh middle of the sound, even listening to the Today programme on Radio 4 I keep needing to crank up the volume. I need to play more with teh EQ, maybe.

Overall, as I said elsewhere, this is the best car I've ever driven, and not just for the engine. Even the interior is a big step up. I really like teh chunkiness of teh dash, and there are a lot of cool features to explore.

Oh, and to those who urged me to get a 330d - you were right. Thanks.

:-)

[ComputerKnowHow]

I've never owned a petrol 3 series, but my progression from E90 320d Msport Pre LCI manual, then E91 330d SE LCI auto and then F30 320d Msport Xdrive manual makes me think the most significant things for me were:

- The E90 Msport had the best steering wheel and steering feel

- The E91 was my first experience of a 6 cylinder engine and it was excellent

- The F30 suspension is soft, almost too soft. I didn't know at the time, but the Xdrives are fitted with SE suspension. It was comfy but bouncy, even in Sport mode. The E90 Msport Pre LCI suspension was granite hard.

- The F30 320d has a gravelly engine especially when cold. It's fine on the motorway.

- The Xdrive seems to create a poor turning circle and the transmission drones when cruising.

- The professional media and xenons in the F30 are fairly essential in my opinion

The F30 320d Msport is no doubt an excellent motor and I appreciated the economy. I don't know if I was lucky as I've seen some reports of poor consumption but mine was brilliant. It was in my favourite colour EB2. The F30 tech was light years ahead of my E90 and E91 but I didn't have idrive in them.

But the danger of reading these forums is that we all end up taking test drives in cars.

So I recently traded the F30 for an F31 330d Msport Sdrive auto as I need the bigger space and no longer need Xdrive.

The 8 speed auto is amazing and the engine is a definite step up (although I'm not yelling 'buy a 330d' because I suspect what I really want is a petrol) and although the Xdrive was excellent and traction out of corners I find the Sdrive more to my liking (very subjective). I find the 330d more of a driving machine.

I don't think the HK sound is the revelation I thought it would be but that might be the bigger F31 cabin spoiling it a bit.

Enjoy your new car! Just scrolled back through the thread to see you chose the 330d...

[raptor_f22]

Really interesting thread!

I sold my e92 330d end of last year for various reasons. It was my dream car and what I loved about it was the styling, the chunky steering wheel, the handling and feel - to name a few things. Agree with the last post, I didn't love the M sport suspension. Replaced all 4 shocks after they'd failed and felt virtually no difference at all. Unbelievabley stiff.

Keep hearing good things about the F series and I've been inside my mates 2 series, very slick, very pretty. I'm just disappointed that they didn't make another 3 coupe because I still think the e92 is a much much better looking car.

I'm wanting to upgrade to a 335i DCT M Sport with the N55 engine. Looking at £14-17k and for that money I'm now wondering whether I should go for the F series instead...

[bazz780]

Originally Posted by raptor_f22

Really interesting thread!

I sold my e92 330d end of last year for various reasons. It was my dream car and what I loved about it was the styling, the chunky steering wheel, the handling and feel - to name a few things. Agree with the last post, I didn't love the M sport suspension. Replaced all 4 shocks after they'd failed and felt virtually no difference at all. Unbelievabley stiff.

Keep hearing good things about the F series and I've been inside my mates 2 series, very slick, very pretty. I'm just disappointed that they didn't make another 3 coupe because I still think the e92 is a much much better looking car.

I'm wanting to upgrade to a 335i DCT M Sport with the N55 engine. Looking at £14-17k and for that money I'm now wondering whether I should go for the F series instead...

Granted the e92 is solid all round as mentioned

However for that sort of money id want to be in a newish car with latest tech, current models appeal to a wider market should the need to sell arise

Just my opinion