[Terry335]

Hi gang, for kicks I hooked up a boost gauge and took a few laps around the neighborhood. My car is an auto so its hard to get load under 5000rpm, but as far as I can tell it makes around 11psi up to 6300, and then drops to 8.5psi by 7000rpm before it shifts. If you nail it at really low speed (say, 15mph), you'll see a spike of around 12psi before it drops to 11.

It would be interesting to hear how much boost guys are making stock and with the PROcede.

[Chio]

I am glad you like it I love mine

[lawdude]

Isn't that the boost Jeff said it would do?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Isn't that the boost Jeff said it would do?

It is! Anyone with a boost gauge know the stock boost levels?

[lawdude]

Shiv said in the other thread that "the stock car, in the lower midrange, runs 5-6psi. It doesn't hit 8psi until 6000rpm."

[RiXst3r]

what about partial throttle boost?

[Jay@ATP]

What kind of gauge?? Most analog boost gauges are usually off when calibrated to a 3.5 bar MAP sensor.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

what about partial throttle boost?

Not really able to tell, I hooked the gauge before the throttle body so its only accurate at WOT. Part throttle feels about like it did stock, to me.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Shiv said in the other thread that "the stock car, in the lower midrange, runs 5-6psi. It doesn't hit 8psi until 6000rpm."

Just looking for an independent verification. I think he is talking about boost < 4000, which is hard to observe in an auto. 8psi @ 6000rpm sounds reasonable though.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Jay@ATP

What kind of gauge?? Most analog boost gauges are usually off when calibrated to a 3.5 bar MAP sensor.

Just a cheap little autometer style.

[mayno]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Hi gang, for kicks I hooked up a boost gauge and took a few laps around the neighborhood. My car is an auto so its hard to get load under 5000rpm, but as far as I can tell it makes around 11psi up to 6300, and then drops to 8.5psi by 7000rpm before it shifts. If you nail it at really low speed (say, 15mph), you'll see a spike of around 12psi before it drops to 11.

It would be interesting to hear how much boost guys are making stock and with the PROcede.

according to Shiv, that is much too high of boost without making an already lean-running car run substantially richer-- and doing so without any forum of active timing control-- is compromise at best and disastrous at worse. This is fact, not opinion.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=28

let us remember what are one of the key causes of detonation and pre-ignition and NOTICE that in both pre-ignition and detonation: a LEAN fuel mixture are one of the key causes of this.http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=90

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Hi gang, for kicks I hooked up a boost gauge and took a few laps around the neighborhood. My car is an auto so its hard to get load under 5000rpm, but as far as I can tell it makes around 11psi up to 6300, and then drops to 8.5psi by 7000rpm before it shifts. If you nail it at really low speed (say, 15mph), you'll see a spike of around 12psi before it drops to 11.

It would be interesting to hear how much boost guys are making stock and with the PROcede.

Thanks for the data Terry

I was thinking if you have time maybe you can just unplug the TT and see what you get running the same route stock. Then all we would need is someone with procede to try it and we would have a nice data set

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by maynardc

according to Shiv, that is much too high of boost without making an already lean-running car run substantially richer-- and doing so without any forum of active timing control-- is compromise at best and disastrous at worse. This is fact, not opinion.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=28

let us remember what are one of the key causes of detonation and pre-ignition and NOTICE that in both pre-ignition and detonation: a LEAN fuel mixture are one of the key causes of this.http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=90

I think you've misinterpreted the gospal of Shiv.

At speeds over 4800rpm, the car is back down to a 12.5:1 AF and continues to drop from there. At 6000rpm, where I observed 11psi, it's down to 11:1 AF. For my auto, WOT boost from 2500-4500 is basically useless as the engine jumps up to 5000rpm as soon as you nail it in any gear but 1st, and during 1st gear you have tip in enrichment kicking in.

Thanks for dragging out those tired old carbureted engine tricks though; I'll keep that handy if I ever decide to get back in to a 1977 Caddy.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

I think you've misinterpreted the gospal of Shiv.

At speeds over 4800rpm, the car is back down to a 12.5:1 AF and continues to drop from there. At 6000rpm, where I observed 11psi, it's down to 11:1 AF. For my auto, WOT boost from 2500-4500 is basically useless as the engine jumps up to 5000rpm as soon as you nail it in any gear but 1st, and during 1st gear you have tip in enrichment kicking in.

You'll get full boost well before you got WOT and activate the transmission kickdown. This means that 2500-4500rpm range is not useless as far as leanrun on-boost conditions go. You will induce them. And even at a peak horsepower (5700rpm), you're sill at 12:1. If this is okay with you, just say it. Don't make excuses as to how these conditions aren't of any realworld concern.

And "tip-in enrichment?" How do you figure that? Or was that just a hopeful guess?

-shiv

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You'll get full boost well before you got WOT and activate the transmission kickdown. This means that 2500-4500rpm range is not useless as far as leanrun onboost conditions go. You will induce them. And even at a peak horsepower (5700rpm), you're sill at 13:1. If this is okay with you, just say it. Don't make excuses as to how these conditions aren't of any concern.

-shiv

Not following you on the boost. Do you mean non-WOT (partial throttle) boost, or before it downshifts when going WOT?

Also not following you on the AF ratio, isn't 13:1 @ 4800rpm, well below the peak HP?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Not following you on the boost. Do you mean non-WOT (partial throttle) boost, or before it downshifts when going WOT?

Yes, non WOT full boost is acheivable with the Step transmission. Basically, any situation where the car accelerates strongly without inducing a downshift (like when you are in sport mode, for instance, and don't hit the kickdown at the end of pedal travel)

Also not following you on the AF ratio, isn't 13:1 @ 4800rpm, well below the peak HP?

Yep... you cought a typo before i could edit it.. I mean to say 12:1 at 5800rpm, not 13:1 at 5800rpm. The point I was making is that the car doesn't run comfortably rich until high rpm where the boost gains are the smallest. Its in the 3000-5000rpm range, where boost gains are 3-4psi, where things are concerning. The fact that this occurs at or around peak torque makes things even more sketchy.

shiv

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes, non WOT full boost is acheivable with the Step transmission. Basically, any situation where the car accelerates strongly without inducing a downshift (like when you are in sport mode, for instance, and don't hit the kickdown at the end of pedal travel)

Yep... you cought a typo before i could edit it.. I mean to say 12:1 at 5800rpm, not 13:1 at 5800rpm. The point I was making is that the car doesn't run comfortably rich until high rpm where the boost gains are the smallest. Its in the 3000-5000rpm range, where boost gains are 3-4psi, where things are concerning. The fact that this occurs at or around peak torque makes things even more sketchy.

shiv

Detonation isn't usually much of an issue under part throttle due to the lower load, so I don't think you really need an overly rich AF ratio unless you're @ wot. That is just my opinion, once I get some scanning software running on this thing we'll verify it.

On the 12:1 @ 5800 rpm, it works for me. I really wasn't able to spend much time below 5000rpm under boost so someone with an M6 will need to chime in here.

I think we might have unwittingly uncovered why the PROcede cars aren't really running much quicker at the track. Most of the gain is in the lower RPM band, outside the WOT range. Great if you want to floor it without downshifting, but when you’re “going for it”, power under 5000 doesn’t seem to help.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And "tip-in enrichment?" How do you figure that? Or was that just a hopeful guess?

-shiv

Are you suggesting the 335 doesn't have tip-in enrichment built in?

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Are you suggesting the 335 doesn't have tip-in enrichment built in?

Hey Terry, I was hoping that we could have some meaningful dialogue since you are an engineer with some automotive experience. Answering a question with a question isn't helpful. If you don't know the answer, just say so. Nothing to be ashamed about. Remember what Will Rogers said.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Detonation isn't usually much of an issue under part throttle due to the lower load, so I don't think you really need an overly rich AF ratio unless you're @ wot. That is just my opinion, once I get some scanning software running on this thing we'll verify it.

Load in almost entirely related to manifold pressure in a turbo car, not throttle angle. So yes, you can get full load at less than full throttle. Just look at your boost gauge.

On the 12:1 @ 5800 rpm, it works for me. I really wasn't able to spend much time below 5000rpm under boost so someone with an M6 will need to chime in here.

Just drive normally and you will see plenty of boost without the transmission downshifting.

I think we might have unwittingly uncovered why the PROcede cars aren't really running much quicker at the track. Most of the gain is in the lower RPM band, outside the WOT range. Great if you want to floor it without downshifting, but when you’re “going for it”, power under 5000 doesn’t seem to help.

PROcede cars are running 4-8mph faster traps than stock
Clearly, any shortcomings in ETs have to do with traction, not power. And yes, most of the gains are in the low end and midrange which is not taken advantage of on the dragstrip. But it's certainly enjoyed on the street.

Are you suggesting the 335 doesn't have tip-in enrichment built in?

Terry, I just asked where you came up with that? Nothing else.

-shiv

[Jay@ATP]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Just a cheap little autometer style.

Oh those are notorious for being off. I bet its 1-3psi off when calibrated to a 3.5 bar MAP sensor

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Hey Terry, I was hoping that we could have some meaningful dialogue since you are an engineer with some automotive experience. Answering a question with a question isn't helpful. If you don't know the answer, just say so. Nothing to be ashamed about. Remember what Will Rogers said.

You didn't seriously say that did you? Unlike Terry, I can verify with 100% certainty that you have never once contributed anything helpful on this forum. Often mildly amusing, and occasioanlly pretty darm funny, but never ever even remotely helpful. Wait..., maybe you were just trying to be funny again , if so than never mind