[Ravenseal]

Now that my order is a scheduled for production, I was up pretty late last night catching up on all the YouTube reviews of the car and was surprised by the amount of reviewers that recommended the automatic gearbox over the manual. Even reviewers that are traditionally “save the manuals” sticker sales enthusiasts. I’m wondering if anyone on here has taken delivery of a manual gearbox yet and can provide a more extensive and unbiased review of the clutch, shifter feel, throttle response, gate location, throw, etc. I don’t even want to get into the Throttle House 4th gear scandal. I genuinely do want to keep the manual gearbox on my car, but have about a week to make a final decision about switching to the 8ZF - which I test drove in a HEA car and found to be ok.

[AndrejMi]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Now that my order is a scheduled for production, I was up pretty late last night catching up on all the YouTube reviews of the car and was surprised by the amount of reviewers that recommended the automatic gearbox over the manual. Even reviewers that are traditionally “save the manuals” sticker sales enthusiasts. I’m wondering if anyone on here has taken delivery of a manual gearbox yet and can provide a more extensive and unbiased review of the clutch, shifter feel, throttle response, gate location, throw, etc. I don’t even want to get into the Throttle House 4th gear scandal. I genuinely do want to keep the manual gearbox on my car, but have about a week to make a final decision about switching to the 8ZF - which I test drove in a HEA car and found to be ok.

Here's my opinion, keep your manual!!!
clutch 7/10 (I don't like BMW MT Clutches but ordered one anyways)
shifter feel 9/10 (Less rubbery)
throttle response N/A (but if like F8X 8/10)
gate location 10/10
throw10/10

[752002]

So far (930 miles), so good. Rev matching is faster than heel-to-toe. Will know more after an end of the month after a trip to Western North Carolina.

[kyrix1st]

If you have to think about it, manual may not be for you. I've seen too many guys who claim they know how to drive a stick, only to see them wear the sht out of synchros because they can't rev match up or down.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

If you have to think about it, manual may not be for you. I've seen too many guys who claim they know how to drive a stick, only to see them wear the sht out of synchros because they can't rev match up or down.

This has nothing to do with my personal ability and everything to do with BMW design and engineering decisions. When reviewers are saying they’d take a Toyota or Honda manual over a BMW manual, it raises concerns. Porsche manuals being better is a given. The last thing any manual enthusiast wants is a slop box.

[Moflow]

I don't have a G87, but IMHO there are worse things than some turbo lag in a fast car. A manual really allows you to interact with the character of an engine in a way that always feels a lot more genuine. Autos are great for flattening everything out and masking deficiencies in a powerband. Great for timed contests of speed, but one of the funnest parts of a performance car is experiencing it, warts and all. Just enjoy the character of the engine, nobody is timing you, it's fine if you aren't going as fast as possible in your car at all times.

It's all about that character.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

This has nothing to do with my personal ability and everything to do with BMW design and engineering decisions. When reviewers are saying they’d take a Toyota or Honda manual over a BMW manual, it raises concerns. Porsche manuals being better is a given. The last thing any manual enthusiast wants is a slop box.

Reviewers always prefer Honda or Toyota shifters over BMW. My interpretation of the reviews is that the G87 has long throws and rubbery feel, just like all its siblings. It's just what BMW does. The G87 is neither better or worse than any other BMW on this score.

So my honest question: have you driven any modern BMW 6MT? It will be pretty much the same. If you haven't, I'd suggest test driving a 6MT BMW, say an M4, and see if you like it. Honestly, you probably won't, but you can get used to it.

Also, if that's the ONLY thing you don't like, it's not TOO expensive to get a SSK put in.

[InspectorSeb]

I find the clutch very difficult to get on with; typical BMW long travel, high bite point, vague feel. I'll get used to it, but hopping into any other manual car would then feel strange.

IMHO the shifter + clutch are okay for either very laid back driving, cruising with long delays between shifts - OR for really pushing on, with aggressive and purposeful movements. It sort of falls apart anywhere in-between for me which is a shame; it seems to me BMW halted any ergonomic development of their manuals long ago.

I can see why some say an auto lends itself better to the powerband of the engine, with more closely spaced gearing. That being said, I wouldn't give up the manual at all; it was a primary criteria when picking this car.

[Albator_IIII]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Reviewers always prefer Honda or Toyota shifters over BMW. My interpretation of the reviews is that the G87 has long throws and rubbery feel, just like all its siblings. It's just what BMW does. The G87 is neither better or worse than any other BMW on this score.

So my honest question: have you driven any modern BMW 6MT? It will be pretty much the same. If you haven't, I'd suggest test driving a 6MT BMW, say an M4, and see if you like it. Honestly, you probably won't, but you can get used to it.

Also, if that's the ONLY thing you don't like, it's not TOO expensive to get a SSK put in.

While I have only driven 1 MT Honda (late 1990's Civic non Si). I preferred the BMW and VW MTs (I owned a 2003 GTI 1.8T).

Could be what someone either experienced first and more familiar w/ or due to my limited exposure to Japanese MTs.

[RockCrusher]

Have put around 250 miles on my M2. Bought the M2 yesterday and drove it home 200 miles. Ran some errands in it after getting home last night and ran some more errands this AM.

Clutch feel is well, different. But I'm adapting.

Quite a change to get out of the M2 and in to my 2023 JCW with its 6-speed. The JCW clutch is very easy to work for a smooth take off. Really and no pun intended the action is automatic.

One other notable difference between my 230i and its 8-speed freeway cruising RPMs were lower compared to my M2. In the M2 on the freeway at first I kept wanting to up shift but the gear box was already in 6th.

However, I soon got used to the M2 engine turning a bit more RPMs.

Up shifts and down shifts are ok. There is rev matching on down shifts which I tend to screw up because I have a long time habit of rev matching when down shifting. But I'll unlearn that habit.

Shifter doesn't feel vague or wobbly.

So far I'm quite pleased with the manual transmission.

But I could understand how the feel of the clutch might sour one on the 6-speed manual and have him/her long for the 8-speed automatic.

[Albator_IIII]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Have put around 250 miles on my M2. Bought the M2 yesterday and drove it home 200 miles. Ran some errands in it after getting home last night and ran some more errands this AM.

Clutch feel is well, different. But I'm adapting.

Quite a change to get out of the M2 and in to my 2023 JCW with its 6-speed. The JCW clutch is very easy to work for a smooth take off. Really and no pun intended the action is automatic.

One other notable difference between my 230i and its 8-speed freeway cruising RPMs were lower compared to my M2. In the M2 on the freeway at first I kept wanting to up shift but the gear box was already in 6th.

However, I soon got used to the M2 engine turning a bit more RPMs.

I think this is due to completely different power and torque curves. The gearing is different to complement each other.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Up shifts and down shifts are ok. There is rev matching on down shifts which I tend to screw up because I have a long time habit of rev matching when down shifting. But I'll unlearn that habit.

Shifter doesn't feel vague or wobbly.

So far I'm quite pleased with the manual transmission.

But I could understand how the feel of the clutch might sour one on the 6-speed manual and have him/her long for the 8-speed automatic.

I intend to try the novelty of rev-matching and if I track I might still use since I am bad at heel-toe (blaming my hip joint anatomy). However, I plan to pretty much turn rev-match off everytime I start the car. Program the M-Buttons for that if possible.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

This has nothing to do with my personal ability and everything to do with BMW design and engineering decisions. When reviewers are saying they’d take a Toyota or Honda manual over a BMW manual, it raises concerns. Porsche manuals being better is a given. The last thing any manual enthusiast wants is a slop box.

Auto vs MT is pretty clear for most people.
Auto is designed to suit the modern cars better overall in virtually any platform including Porsche. Those who are confident enough in art of driving and want the best connection with the car choose manual. DCT was a nice middle ground for those geared more towards manual, but you are not going to get that experience from ZF8.

I actually prefer the BMW 6MT's layout over most manuals, especially the reverse gear. Long throws are not really an issue if you swap to a ZHP shift knob, shift feels nearly as good as my previous AP1 with carbon synchros.

[zero21]

I'm not a huge fan of the high take up point because it makes you want to not push the clutch all the way in knowing you have so far to release it. The shifts sometimes feel inconsistent to me getting into 1st gear, especially after reverse.

I've noticed a tendency gettin into third that sometimes it's notchy and sometimes it's a bit more rubbery.

I think at the end of the day the manual is fine once you get used to it and it should take a bit before it "opens up" and is properly broken in for me. I rank it 6/10. Mostly because I'm a fan of gated shifters (I'm a visual person).

[awg87]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

This has nothing to do with my personal ability and everything to do with BMW design and engineering decisions. When reviewers are saying they’d take a Toyota or Honda manual over a BMW manual, it raises concerns. Porsche manuals being better is a given. The last thing any manual enthusiast wants is a slop box.

But Honda and Toyota manuals have literally been better forever?

[(K)]

Curious as a F87 owner, my understanding is that the manual is a carryover (though I'm not sure how much of it is carried over). Coming from various Hondas manuals, the M2 definitely lacked some slickness found on the Hondas but it comes with a certain heft to it that I thought was nice. I did notice the vague, rubberiness that many have mentioned but it didn't bother me. Suffice to say I still went with the trifecta of CDV delete, SSK, and UCP and the car that much more engaging and fun after the mods.

All that to say, the shifting on the G87 can be easily transformed with a little modding if it's not to your liking. Unfortunate that you'd have to spend money to make it better but at the same time, BMW isn't known to have great shifters from the factory.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

This has nothing to do with my personal ability and everything to do with BMW design and engineering decisions. When reviewers are saying they’d take a Toyota or Honda manual over a BMW manual, it raises concerns. Porsche manuals being better is a given. The last thing any manual enthusiast wants is a slop box.

This has been the feedback on the BMW 6MT forever. "rubbery", "weird clutch engagement", "s-2000 is a dream MT", "Porsche got it right", etc.

The incoming G80 will be my 10th BMW, 8 of them with the 6MT, only two without the MT were 2012 335is, and 2021 M340i. I loved the 335is but managed to last one year before I could not stand the Auto/DCT any more. In 2021, turning 50, I wanted to convince myself that AT would be better for me now. Barely managed 7 months in the M340i and jumped to 2021 M2C with 6MT.

I love the BMW 6MT. I have driven many 6MT, including clicking Porsche, Toyota and old/last Prelude 6MT. I am totally fine with the BMW 6MT and will stick with it as long as they offer them!

[zero21]

Originally Posted by InspectorSeb

I find the clutch very difficult to get on with; typical BMW long travel, high bite point, vague feel. I'll get used to it, but hopping into any other manual car would then feel strange.

IMHO the shifter + clutch are okay for either very laid back driving, cruising with long delays between shifts - OR for really pushing on, with aggressive and purposeful movements. It sort of falls apart anywhere in-between for me which is a shame; it seems to me BMW halted any ergonomic development of their manuals long ago.

I can see why some say an auto lends itself better to the powerband of the engine, with more closely spaced gearing. That being said, I wouldn't give up the manual at all; it was a primary criteria when picking this car.

I have the exact same feeling - it's either for lazy cruising or dropping it and going 8/10's and up. There's no casually aggressive driving possible with the clutch (for me, yet) between 5/10-7/10s.

Edit: I drove a Mazda 3 manual several weeks ago and it was better than this gearbox. I don't get why BMW deliberately has this weird driving style requirement and deliberately makes a shifter that sucks. Like that's easily fixable with barely any development dollars.

[blue135]

Curious why people think Honda makes great manuals. Had 2007 Civic Is. Shifted ok, but the 3rd gear popping out was not a real advantage in my mind.
(And then there was the paint.) Never had manual Toyota so can't comment.
My 2008 135i 6MT feels more solid and consistent and substantially more pleasurable.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

If you have to think about it, manual may not be for you. I've seen too many guys who claim they know how to drive a stick, only to see them wear the sht out of synchros because they can't rev match up or down.

Wonder what that’s all about.
I’ve been driving manuals my whole life, as had my parents and sister, they never rev match(ed) and I only do every once in a while, nobody in my clan has even damaged a transmission. I do it on my motorcycles mainly for safety and stability reasons and now one of my bikes has an autoblip which I hardly use.

[jas165]

Originally Posted by zero21

I have the exact same feeling - it's either for lazy cruising or dropping it and going 8/10's and up. There's no casually aggressive driving possible with the clutch (for me, yet) between 5/10-7/10s.

Edit: I drove a Mazda 3 manual several weeks ago and it was better than this gearbox. I don't get why BMW deliberately has this weird driving style requirement and deliberately makes a shifter that sucks. Like that's easily fixable with barely any development dollars.

I went from a manual Mazda 3 to a manual G80, and while the shifting in the Mazda was way smoother and easier, about 300 horsepower separates the two cars, so it’s not really a fair comparison.

[M2withACC]

Don't forget when you are cruising on the freeway doing 80mph, which is almost 3000 RPM. I was going to get the manual G87 M2, but I got the auto because I believe F87 and G87 have very similar gear ratios. Also, no ACC. I love my M2 with ACC

[KevinC]

I have yet to drive a G87 but I suspect the shifter & clutch feel are no different than recent BMWs, which have all been pretty similar for ages now. The long pedal travel is easily cured with a clutch stop, like this one for $15 shipped from eBay:

https://ebay.to/41yjMWn

As for the "rubbery" shift linkage - yeah it's not an inaccurate description, but when it's compared to the best-shifting cars out there - Miata, Porsche, S2000, etc - that's a pretty high bar. And the BMW experience not a whole lot worse IMHO. Certainly not bad enough to sway me away from a manual, and I suspect the vast majority of buyers would feel the same way. For those who just have to tighten it up a bit, there are inexpensive aftermarket solutions for this.

If you want to experience a really bad manual shifter, try a '90's VW Corrado, VW's first effort at a cable-shifted transmission. C&D review when it came out described the shifting experience as being "like rowing a stick through a box of wet Kleenex®" and that was a VERY accurate description!