[hotrod182]

Ever since I got the new progman, my car seems to be down on power. I decided to pull a spark plug, just in case they are contributing to the problem. So here is a picture of cylinder #1. It seems like there is quite a bit of build up of sand like substances on some of the surfaces. Wonder if this may be deposits as a result of racing fuel, or just normal fuel additives?

However, the firing surfaces seem to be free of this build up. I started the car for about 15 seconds to move it in the driveway before pulling the plug, so it may be a little blacker than normal.

You can see the center electrode is somewhat worn, as it isn't sharp anymore. However, no signs of insulation bubbling, cracking, detonation, etc. Which is a good thing, as this car has been run though hell on map#7+ for a good part of its life on 91 octane. The lower picture shows light spots, which were merely a result of scuffing the edges during removal.

Looked into the cylinder. Piston looks normal. Just a little carbon, but you can still see the brown aluminum through it. Looks like just a little scotch brite, and you could scrub the carbon off quickly.

Anyone else have any comparisons at 15,000 miles? Think I should install new plugs?

[GeorgeSmooth]

They don't look to bad, I wouldn't change them yet. How much does a set go for in the States?

[Jonny550]

you have pretty much two options witch are obvious.

1.change the plugs and the car will run better maybe 7-10% better

2.leave them the way they are now and live with it until like 20-22,000 miles


my 0.2 cents

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Jon335iFL

you have pretty much two options witch are obvious.

1.change the plugs and the car will run better maybe 7-10% better

2.leave them the way they are now and live with it until like 20-22,000 miles


my 0.2 cents

If that means 30 more horsepower, then I'm all over it!

Okay, I just looked at a website showing spark plugs.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html

Mine definitely look most similar to the first ("normal") picture. Damn, look at those pictures of preignition damaged plugs! I was wondering if I would see something like that. Thank goodness I didn't!

They say spark plugs are a window to the combustion chamber health of your engine. I still have the other 5 plugs to pull to be sure I'm safe, but this tells a lot about the safety margins our DME utilizes in adverse conditions. I have made over 300 1/4 mile passes on these plugs. Driven and raced around on the turbomelter on 91 octane. I daily drive and race around on map #7 on 91 octane! So basically, this engine has been through hell, and the plugs (so far) don't show any signs of preignition damage, overheating, detonation, or oil fouling. So if my engine can take the kind of abuse, using non recommened maps/fuel, etc, I think the average 335i owner is pretty safe. The stock turbo capacity is a whole different story, but still, the N54 is pretty amazing in my book!

[David 12]

Compared to my plugs when I changed them at about 22k miles (18k tuned), your plugs look bad. I never used race gas or octane booster and ran pretty conservative tunes - That may be the difference.

Another member here (mote) changed his and picked up a significant amount of HP.

I think the investment is about $70 and well worth it! It looks like 20k miles (or sooner if race gas and/or fuel additives are used) is about the right mileage to change our plugs.

You are right about the engine being amazing; we are lucky that it also responds well to available tunes.

ps I have stayed with map 3 on 91 octane, but hope to use a higher map once it cools off a little!

[brianhn1]

Your plugs show some normal wear patterns. Nothing to worry about. Definitely partly worn. Wouldnt be surprised if you got some more power just changing them out.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by David 12

Compared to my plugs when I changed them at about 22k miles (18k tuned), your plugs look bad. I never used race gas or octane booster and ran pretty conservative tunes - That may be the difference.

Another member here (mote) changed his and picked up a significant amount of HP.

I think the investment is about $70 and well worth it! It looks like 20k miles (or sooner if race gas and/or fuel additives are used) is about the right mileage to change our plugs.

You are right about the engine being amazing; we are lucky that it also responds well to available tunes.

ps I have stayed with map 3 on 91 octane, but hope to use a higher map once it cools off a little!

Yup, I have used higher boost maps on 91 octane. And have run through probably 60 gallons of race fuel. So, who knows if they are compromised. Well, I will run a test before/after the change to exactly quantify any HP increase if any.

But it really doesn't look that bad without a closeup view. Here is a picture of the same plug..

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

So, these plugs are from "the worlds fastest N54" and have seen:

1) 15k of hard miles normally running map 7 or higher on 91 octane without supporting mods
2) Hundreds of 1/4 mile pulls on pump and race gas at all sorts of crazy boost levels
3) Race gas map testing on 91 octane
4) Beta testing of all sorts

So if there was ever a motor that should have signs of detonation, preignition, etc on their plugs it would be yours. It only takes one second or less of serious knock to trash a plug, yet that one looks perfectly clean.

So much for the JB3 being unsafe for the long haul

Mikd

[GeorgeSmooth]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

So, these plugs are from "the worlds fastest N54" and have seen:

1) 15k of hard miles normally running map 7 or higher on 91 octane without supporting mods
2) Hundreds of 1/4 mile pulls on pump and race gas at all sorts of crazy boost levels
3) Race gas map testing on 91 octane
4) Beta testing of all sorts

So if there was ever a motor that should have signs of detonation, preignition, etc on their plugs it would be yours. It only takes one second or less of serious knock to trash a plug, yet that one looks perfectly clean.

So much for the JB3 being unsafe for the long haul

Mikd

Haha any chance for a marketing plug in. The car won't allow them to get much worse than that.

[GMWNashville]

id replace them...like previously mentioned they have alot of hard miles on them...theres no real reason to not take an hour and $100 and replace them..

[David 12]

Here are mine:

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

Haha any chance for a marketing plug in. The car won't allow them to get much worse than that.

I am getting mine replaced tomorrow as part of the routine maintenance so will post up pictures of what they look like..

Mike

[Terrance28]

I feel alot better about this engine knowing how hotrod runs his to the edge and it takes it like a champ.

[Malek@MRF]

Those plugs are toast bro. Replace them.

Something you are using as fuel is causing that excessive build up.

The electrode along with the prongs look a bit worn out as well.

Mike@N54tuning... Don't start a crap storm and make this a JB3 thread.

[TheTwinz]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

Those plugs are toast bro. Replace them.

Something you are using as fuel is causing that excessive build up.

The electrode along with the prongs look a bit worn out as well.

Mike@N54tuning... Don't start a crap storm and make this a JB3 thread.

I think Mike has every right to... The OP stated that he was running a JB3 for xxxx miles and using xxxxx amount of fuel etc... So this has everything to do with how the JB3 performs. This is good information for people who are worried about whether or not JB3 is safe or not.

[Muscle Master]

how many use Shell Premium gas, I heard it doesn't wear the plugs that much

[Terrance28]

I use shell 93 religiously.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

I use shell 93 religiously.

Me too, everyone should

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

I use shell 93 religiously.

I pretty much always use Shell 91 VPower, and sometimes Union 76. I'm still trying to figure out how the new nitrogenated formulation of Shell's affects performance.

Also, David, your plugs seem to look very similar to mine. I guess the gritty type build up is pretty normal. I mean if you really zoomed in on your tips like I did, I'm sure they would be pretty similar.

[David 12]

Yeah normal wear - My miles were running Procede 1.47 so might as well give some love to the other camp!

Not sure about the gas theory though (BP 92 here); what kind of plugs do GM cars use these days anyway??

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

I use shell 93 religiously.

we only get 91........

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by David 12

Yeah normal wear - My miles were running Procede 1.47 so might as well give some love to the other camp!

Not sure about the gas theory though (BP 92 here); what kind of plugs do GM cars use these days anyway??

So did you quantify any performance benefit after changing the plugs?