330D DPF removal

rsofronici · 09-11-2017, 06:23 AM

Can someone please explain why is a remap need after or during the DPF removal other than to not have the DPF message come up on the iDrive?

Without the DPF the car will not regenerate as the pre/post DPF back-pressure and temperatures will not be in spec for a DPF regeneration.

Assuming I'm not looking for power increase through remapping, the car/engine should run as before but with less, or none at all, exhaust back-pressure and with lower EGT.

Yes, a remap would instruct the DDE to not look for parameters for a DPF regeneration and the DPF failed regeneration message would not come on after 15 minutes of driving but other than that what else does remapping do?

335stoner · 09-11-2017, 06:33 AM

because the DDE needs the DPF to work or you car will go into failsafe mode.

read up there are tons of threads on this

rsofronici · 09-11-2017, 08:28 AM

I've read everything I could find about the DPF on the M57N2 and nothing says it has to be there. Some cars, pre 2005, even came without it.
My car is a 2005 330xD and about four years ago someone gutted the DPF but did not do the remap. Car ran OK but every time I started the car after driving for about 15 minutes the DPF message would pop up on the iDrive. I guess it takes about 15 minutes for the car to reach regen temperature.
Last week I installed the second hand DPF, after washing it with a hot (90 C) pressure washer for about 45 minutes from both ends. Use a air compressor to blow out any water remaining in the DPF then put the DPF in a recirculating oven overnight to get it completely dry. I don't have a way to measure back-pressure but the DPF felt OK when I put in some pressure air through it.
After repairing the EGR on the car I requested a DPF regen and it looked like it was happening...loss of power to the point I could not drive more than 10Km/H and had to pull over, lots of smoke out the back, EGT over 500 C, ...After about five minutes the car ran fine again. Power as before the DPF got replaced...until this morning when I believe the DDE requested another regen and this time I was down to less than 5 Km/H and eventually the engine stopped under load. Engine ran fine without load and would rev OK but not while driving.
Now I'm tempted to get the DPF removed again and wanted to know more from the forum as to why we need a remap of the DDE...mostly out of curiosity but also to learn. I know the DPF can cause many problems but it also solves some issues like particle pollution...but not in a car I can't drive, so it may be back to no DPF, as much as I hate to do it.

335stoner · 09-11-2017, 11:07 AM

in the states 2006 the DPF became mandatory on all diesels, cars pre 2006 did not require one. people with 2005 and older could run straight pipes with no issues. 2006 and older needed some type of computer tuning to turn the DPF off.

you may need to look in your regional section?

Ken Oath · 09-12-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsofronici

Can someone please explain why is a remap need after or during the DPF removal other than to not have the DPF message come up on the iDrive?

Adjustments need to be made to the turbo duty cycle (VNT) maps, deviation maps and boost pressure linearisation. By adjusting the turbo duty cycle (VNT) maps it prevents the turbo bouncing off the limiter as the turbo acceleration will be too aggressive.

Gutting the DPF also creates problems in reliably setting the turbo.

rsofronici · 09-13-2017, 02:09 PM

Ken,

So, the back-pressure provided by the DPF keeps the turbo in check and keeps it from spooling up too fast. The more I learn about the DPF the more I like the AddBlue system or no DPF at all. No DPF has it's drawback too...particulates=soot. I just wished the DPF was easier to service and/or less expensive. Catalytic converters seem to perform forever, unless you happen to cool one off to quick and crack the ceramic core.

Ken Oath · 09-13-2017, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsofronici

......I just wished the DPF was easier to service and/or less expensive. Catalytic converters seem to perform forever, unless you happen to cool one off to quick and crack the ceramic core.

Some downpipe manufacturers offer a cat to help limit the smell and soot egress which don't introduce torque or power loss when tuned. This would be more of a vehicle lifetime solution.

Plenty of North American members have DP and tune solution, maybe someone with the cat installed could provide feedback?

BB_cuda · 09-14-2017, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Oath

Some downpipe manufacturers offer a cat to help limit the smell and soot egress which don't introduce torque or power loss when tuned. This would be more of a vehicle lifetime solution.

Plenty of North American members have DP and tune solution, maybe someone with the cat installed could provide feedback?

I guess we can agree to disagree on one point. I don't feel you want the cat to perform the role of a soot/particulate collector. If it does, your gonna have clogging problems pretty quick. The cat's role is for scrubbing the stink. If your concerned of the soot, keep running a virgin DPF.

Back on the cat clog, think about people having to change cats on a gasser from running leaded fuel or really high miles. I'm not trying to come across as a heavy authoritarian type here. Just sounds like trouble to me. I have 3 choices to run here 1) gutted DPF 2) catted down pipe and 3) open downpipe. I'm in a position to compare. I durn sure don't want to put the DPF back again if it comes down. It was a BEAR to reinstall after gutting/welding shut. Downpipe is a walk in the park in comparison to install.

Ken Oath · 09-15-2017, 02:02 AM

In compression ignition engines a two way DOC will reduce carbon (soot) as the carbon particles have a layer of hydrocarbon on the outside. As the DOC can oxidise hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially burnt fuel to water & CO2) it therefore will reduce particulate matter upto 25%.

As the OEM DPF has a DOC prior to the particulate filter the carbon (soot) that is not handled by the DOC passes through and is filtered by the particulate filter. It is the particulate filter which becomes obstructed and requires a regen not the DOC.

In a petrol powered vehicle the three way catalytic converter handles nitrogen oxides and cannot be compared with a two way DOC.

BB_cuda · 09-15-2017, 09:06 PM

Thanks, Ken. I'll go look at this to learn more about 2 way cats. My DOC is way more effective at reducing stink than the generic cat in one of the down pipes.

Davll · 10-02-2017, 06:11 PM

I have a catted downpipe currently, and I just purchased a new Buzzken downpipe w/ integral DOC (brand new model from Ken D).

The wife really was not a fan of the smell with the catted downpipe, and the DOC is supposed to perform much better. I'm looking forward to getting it installed, and I should be able to do a direct comparison.

09-11-2017, 06:23 AM	#1
rsofronici New Member 4 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2005 E91 330xd Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Tamworth iTrader: (0)	330D DPF removal Can someone please explain why is a remap need after or during the DPF removal other than to not have the DPF message come up on the iDrive? Without the DPF the car will not regenerate as the pre/post DPF back-pressure and temperatures will not be in spec for a DPF regeneration. Assuming I'm not looking for power increase through remapping, the car/engine should run as before but with less, or none at all, exhaust back-pressure and with lower EGT. Yes, a remap would instruct the DDE to not look for parameters for a DPF regeneration and the DPF failed regeneration message would not come on after 15 minutes of driving but other than that what else does remapping do?
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09-11-2017, 06:33 AM	#2
335stoner BRR tuned 220 Rep 646 Posts Drives: 335D black Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: cypress tx iTrader: (0)	because the DDE needs the DPF to work or you car will go into failsafe mode. read up there are tons of threads on this
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09-11-2017, 08:28 AM	#3
rsofronici New Member 4 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2005 E91 330xd Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Tamworth iTrader: (0)	I've read everything I could find about the DPF on the M57N2 and nothing says it has to be there. Some cars, pre 2005, even came without it. My car is a 2005 330xD and about four years ago someone gutted the DPF but did not do the remap. Car ran OK but every time I started the car after driving for about 15 minutes the DPF message would pop up on the iDrive. I guess it takes about 15 minutes for the car to reach regen temperature. Last week I installed the second hand DPF, after washing it with a hot (90 C) pressure washer for about 45 minutes from both ends. Use a air compressor to blow out any water remaining in the DPF then put the DPF in a recirculating oven overnight to get it completely dry. I don't have a way to measure back-pressure but the DPF felt OK when I put in some pressure air through it. After repairing the EGR on the car I requested a DPF regen and it looked like it was happening...loss of power to the point I could not drive more than 10Km/H and had to pull over, lots of smoke out the back, EGT over 500 C, ...After about five minutes the car ran fine again. Power as before the DPF got replaced...until this morning when I believe the DDE requested another regen and this time I was down to less than 5 Km/H and eventually the engine stopped under load. Engine ran fine without load and would rev OK but not while driving. Now I'm tempted to get the DPF removed again and wanted to know more from the forum as to why we need a remap of the DDE...mostly out of curiosity but also to learn. I know the DPF can cause many problems but it also solves some issues like particle pollution...but not in a car I can't drive, so it may be back to no DPF, as much as I hate to do it.
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09-11-2017, 11:07 AM	#4
335stoner BRR tuned 220 Rep 646 Posts Drives: 335D black Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: cypress tx iTrader: (0)	in the states 2006 the DPF became mandatory on all diesels, cars pre 2006 did not require one. people with 2005 and older could run straight pipes with no issues. 2006 and older needed some type of computer tuning to turn the DPF off. you may need to look in your regional section?
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09-13-2017, 02:09 PM	#6
rsofronici New Member 4 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2005 E91 330xd Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Tamworth iTrader: (0)	Ken, So, the back-pressure provided by the DPF keeps the turbo in check and keeps it from spooling up too fast. The more I learn about the DPF the more I like the AddBlue system or no DPF at all. No DPF has it's drawback too...particulates=soot. I just wished the DPF was easier to service and/or less expensive. Catalytic converters seem to perform forever, unless you happen to cool one off to quick and crack the ceramic core.
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09-15-2017, 02:02 AM	#9
Ken Oath Lieutenant 114 Rep 410 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 330d Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Perth, Australia iTrader: (0)	In compression ignition engines a two way DOC will reduce carbon (soot) as the carbon particles have a layer of hydrocarbon on the outside. As the DOC can oxidise hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially burnt fuel to water & CO2) it therefore will reduce particulate matter upto 25%. As the OEM DPF has a DOC prior to the particulate filter the carbon (soot) that is not handled by the DOC passes through and is filtered by the particulate filter. It is the particulate filter which becomes obstructed and requires a regen not the DOC. In a petrol powered vehicle the three way catalytic converter handles nitrogen oxides and cannot be compared with a two way DOC.
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09-15-2017, 09:06 PM	#10
BB_cuda Brigadier General 770 Rep 3,555 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	Thanks, Ken. I'll go look at this to learn more about 2 way cats. My DOC is way more effective at reducing stink than the generic cat in one of the down pipes.
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10-02-2017, 06:11 PM	#11
Davll Enlisted Member 5 Rep 31 Posts Drives: E70 X5 35d Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I have a catted downpipe currently, and I just purchased a new Buzzken downpipe w/ integral DOC (brand new model from Ken D). The wife really was not a fan of the smell with the catted downpipe, and the DOC is supposed to perform much better. I'm looking forward to getting it installed, and I should be able to do a direct comparison.
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