[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Can you go to Costco with a 911?
Can you go skiing with a 911 with your skis inside it?
Can you take your children on rear-facing car seats in a 911?
Can you take your tires inside your car for a race day or tire changeover?

The M2 can do all of those.
The 911 cannot do anything the M2 cannot do.

So if the 911 can't do anything the M2 can't, how is it better, when the M2 can do things the 911 can't?

The M2 is an insanely better car.
As I stated, the 911 might be the better toy.

The Macan is a better offroader than a 911.
The Toyota Sienna is a better car than an M2 if you have 4 children.

Once you understand what "better" means, you'll get it.
The M2 is the best car in the world. But sometimes it's beat by a Civic. And that's ok.

I love Ferraris. They are insanely bad cars. I wish I had one.

I feel like you're trolling us. The M2 is a sports car. You're taking about taking ski gear, kids and tires. Lol. You want storage go get a truck. As a sports car, it does nothing better than a 911. That isn't really debatable either. Notice even you couldn't name one thing the M2 does better than a 911 as it relates to driving. It's heavy, kinda ugly, and has lifeless steering just to name a few points for comparison purposes. You get what you pay for.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

Is it twice the car? No. Does it have to be to justify the price? Also no. It's worth every penny of what it costs and it holds value better than most cars out there. So while you will pay a premium upfront, you'll recover that at sale down the road.

Well I think so I am not ready to sign a blank check to Porsche just on the brand prestige they have to prove their worth. I agree with the low depreciation of the 911 but the M2 also hold the value well. So Even if the 911 lose only 10% of it value and the M2 20% since the car is twice as expensive it end up being the same lost for you. Plus a more expensive car come with more expensive maintenance, more expensive registration fees, more expensive parts and more expensive insurance premium.

Yes the 911 still is the best sport car but it is far to be the best value. If you are loaded with money it is the obvious choice. If not the M2 will give alot for much less money. Plus in bonus you will have better trunk and a better back seat.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

I feel like you're trolling us. The M2 is a sports car. You're taking about taking ski gear, kids and tires. Lol. You want storage go get a truck. As a sports car, it does nothing better than a 911. That isn't really debatable either. Notice even you couldn't name one thing the M2 does better than a 911 as it relates to driving. It's heavy, kinda ugly, and has lifeless steering just to name a few points for comparison purposes. You get what you pay for.

I posted my opinion. You are commenting on someone else’s opinion.

I don’t think the M2 is heavy. It’s heavier than a 911, but not by much, and it’s a much larger car, so it should. It’s ligther than its competitors, like the Mustang.

I don’t think it’s ugly.
It’s quicker in a straight line than a 911. Likely more economical too. Cheaper to maintain. Just better

The M2 is a practical car that you can drive on track. Your definition of sports car is vastly different than mine. Whether you want to debate it or not is irrelevant, and your opinion on what something is debatable, the same.

As a CAR, it’s better. And I think so so I got one. Which one did you get?

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I posted my opinion. You are commenting on someone else’s opinion.

I don’t think the M2 is heavy. It’s heavier than a 911, but not by much, and it’s a much larger car, so it should. It’s ligther than its competitors, like the Mustang.

I don’t think it’s ugly.
It’s quicker in a straight line than a 911. Likely more economical too. Cheaper to maintain. Just better

The M2 is a practical car that you can drive on track. Your definition of sports car is vastly different than mine. Whether you want to debate it or not is irrelevant, and your opinion on what something is debatable, the same.

As a CAR, it’s better. And I think so so I got one. Which one did you get?

Further:

Sachsenring

Sachsenring is a racing venue in Germany with 957 lap times.This page represents the 3.7 kilometer (2.3 mile) configuration of this track.

Sachsenring is a moderately fast track, with overall average speed of 133 kph (83 mph).

BMW M2 lap time: 1:33.55
Porsche 911 lap time: 1:33.91

Not bad for a grocery getter to be quicker than a 911, is it?

And the M2 can be had in manual. Case closed on that one as being better, as that is not up for debate for who wants a manual.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I posted my opinion. You are commenting on someone else’s opinion.

I don’t think the M2 is heavy. It’s heavier than a 911, but not by much, and it’s a much larger car, so it should. It’s ligther than its competitors, like the Mustang.

I don’t think it’s ugly.
It’s quicker in a straight line than a 911. Likely more economical too. Cheaper to maintain. Just better

The M2 is a practical car that you can drive on track. Your definition of sports car is vastly different than mine. Whether you want to debate it or not is irrelevant, and your opinion on what something is debatable, the same.

As a CAR, it’s better. And I think so so I got one. Which one did you get?

M2 is a 3800lb car.
911 is a 3300lb car.
500lbs isn’t much?!

A 2023 mustang GT weighs between 3500-3800lbs. A M2 does not weight less than a mustang.

M2 dimensions are 180.3 x 74.3 x 55.2 (LWH)
911 dimensions are 177.9 x 72.9 x 51.1 (LWH)
M2 is a much larger car? Not really. In fact, aside from the height difference, which is because the 911 sits lower they’re about the same size except the M2 carries 500 more pounds.

911 0-60 is 3.8
M2 0-60 is 4.2
How is a M2 faster in a straight line?

[c1pher]

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by robopp

M2 is a 3800lb car.
911 is a 3300lb car.
500lbs isn’t much?!

A 2023 mustang GT weighs between 3500-3800lbs. A M2 does not weight less than a mustang.

M2 dimensions are 180.3 x 74.3 x 55.2 (LWH)
911 dimensions are 177.9 x 72.9 x 51.1 (LWH)
M2 is a much larger car? Not really. In fact, aside from the height difference, which is because the 911 sits lower they’re about the same size except the M2 carries 500 more pounds.

911 0-60 is 3.8
M2 0-60 is 4.2
How is a M2 faster in a straight line?

WOW, kudos! You got literally every measure wrong! Which tells me you have an agenda, so I won’t debate. You’re right. the M2 sucks, I feel bad you made this choice and bought such a bad car…

But, just for kicks, here are some actual figures:

911: 379 hp (M2: 453 hp)
911: 0-100 in 4.2 seconds (M2: 4.1 seconds to 100)
911: 1,505 Kg (DIN) (M2: 1,700 Kg for the manual, 1725 for the auto). 430 pounds difference
911: 1852mm wide (M2: 1887mm wide)
911: 1298mm tall (M2: 1403mm tall - the M2 does not sit 100mm taller off the ground than the Porsche, the Porsche would touch the ground, proving the M2 is just taller/bigger)
911: 4519mm long (M2: 4580 long - that’s the smallest BMW; the smallest Porsche is the Cayman)
911: 2450mm wheelbase (M2: 2747mm wheelbase)

It’s larger. And its interior is larger, it’s got more mass accordingly.

Mustang: 1,735 Kg (GT) to 1,791 Kg (Dark Horse) (M2: 1,700 Kg)

Sources here because I don’t believe in spitting out numbers out of my ass.

The M2 is faster than both these cars in a straight line and on track. Deal with it. Or be happy you bought the car


https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/mo...odels/carrera/

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/canad...04633EN/568116

https://www.ford.ca/cars/mustang/models/gt-fastback/

[German1967]

I own both a 992 C2S and a G42 M240 (cousin of the M2). The G42 is my DD, the 911 my fun car. Surely, the BMW is more practical in any way. But in terms of driving dynamics the 911 beats the BMW in every way - by far. That’s expected given it’s 3x in price.

[aerobod]

Also, if we are comparing manuals only, the M2 and Carrera T would be the best comparison. Bearing in mind the Carrera T is somewhat stripped down and only a 2 seater, it should be quite a bit lighter than the M2, but it is slower accelerating than the M2 in C&D tests:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rrera-t-drive/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-bmw-m2-drive/

The measured weight difference between the Mustang GT and M2 is also larger than manufacturer figures at 3947 vs 3745 pounds (202 lb / 92kg) with the Mustang somewhat heavier than Ford spec and M2 right on BMW spec:

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang

[c1pher]

I really like my M2 but if I could only keep one, the M2 would be gone in a second. My 911S is just more special to me. It’s now my 3rd one and other than taxes, insurance and gas, I got my money back on all of them after 24 months of ownership. Doesn’t mean the M2 isn’t special or is a bad car. On the contrary, it’s an excellent car and I hope to keep both as part of my dream fleet.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I really like my M2 but if I could only keep one, the M2 would be gone in a second. My 911S is just more special to me. It’s now my 3rd one and other than taxes, insurance and gas, I got my money back on all of them after 24 months of ownership. Doesn’t mean the M2 isn’t special or is a bad car. On the contrary, it’s an excellent car and I hope to keep both as part of my dream fleet.

I definitely agree in the same way about the Caterham vs M2. Both about the same price and similar 1/4 mile time (although the Caterham with the rebuilt 250bhp engine should do 0-60mph in 3 seconds on R-comps, but has the aerodynamics of a brick).

The M2 is the all round best sports car of the two, the Caterham has much better feel, is faster around a track and more fun than any other car I’ve ever owned, but it is a tiring as riding a sports motorcycle and extremely focused on what it does best …… and terrible at everything else.

[M2audioman]

This shouldn't even be a discussion.

If you can afford a 992, get one. The M2 and 992 aren't competitors. The 992 is essentially sports car perfection for enthusiasts. Anybody that has the means and can only pick one car to buy is NOT picking the M2 over a 911. No chance unless they already own a 911. Lol.

Porsche > BMW and 992 (or even a 991.2) > Any M2

[RootsTootsMagoots]

Ok good job guys with the 911, now let's compare the M2 to the Ferrari Portofino M and McLaren 720S. Go.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

The 992 is essentially sports car perfection for enthusiasts.

Besides the GT3 RS (and the GT4 RS may be arguably better), the others are not outstanding compared with many other sports cars. For track enthusiasts there is plenty of choice, whether you want faster lap times, more grip, better steering feel, better brakes, better gear change, etc. They are good all round sporting road cars with a loss in practicality compared with 4-seater sports sedans or coupes, but a long way from perfection from a driving perspective.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by M2siast

WOW, kudos! You got literally every measure wrong! Which tells me you have an agenda, so I won’t debate. You’re right. the M2 sucks, I feel bad you made this choice and bought such a bad car…

But, just for kicks, here are some actual figures:

911: 379 hp (M2: 453 hp)
911: 0-100 in 4.2 seconds (M2: 4.1 seconds to 100)
911: 1,505 Kg (DIN) (M2: 1,700 Kg for the manual, 1725 for the auto). 430 pounds difference
911: 1852mm wide (M2: 1887mm wide)
911: 1298mm tall (M2: 1403mm tall - the M2 does not sit 100mm taller off the ground than the Porsche, the Porsche would touch the ground, proving the M2 is just taller/bigger)
911: 4519mm long (M2: 4580 long - that’s the smallest BMW; the smallest Porsche is the Cayman)
911: 2450mm wheelbase (M2: 2747mm wheelbase)

It’s larger. And its interior is larger, it’s got more mass accordingly.

Mustang: 1,735 Kg (GT) to 1,791 Kg (Dark Horse) (M2: 1,700 Kg)

Sources here because I don’t believe in spitting out numbers out of my ass.

The M2 is faster than both these cars in a straight line and on track. Deal with it. Or be happy you bought the car


https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/mo...odels/carrera/

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/canad...04633EN/568116

https://www.ford.ca/cars/mustang/models/gt-fastback/

Every measurement wrong?
I got my numbers from the same sites as you did, except I’m in the US. I’ll correct your numbers since you apparently can’t do the conversion yourself and instead throw accusations around.

In the US manufacturers measure 0-60, not 100kph. Additionally, you missed the base 911 with sport chrono, which brings the time down .2 seconds so your quoted 0-100 numbers are wrong.

Weight
Again, 430lbs isn’t a big difference?! The M2 at 3800lbs is a very heavy car. It weighs the same as the M4! You’re weight numbers are correct for the Mustang. I was in a rush and having trouble finding weight numbers so I googled and didn’t use the manufacturer.

Size
The difference in size is M2 is 2.4” longer, 1.4” wider, and 4.1” taller. That’s a larger car? I guess it is, but that’s pretty damn close in proportions. Having a taller car in a sports car is not desirable, fyi.

Feel free to fact check me. Nothings changed and my numbers are and always were directly from the manufacturers.

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...ures-and-specs

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/9...odels/carrera/


I have no agenda. You said the M2 is ‘an insanely better car’. You then said the M2 has more practicality, which is 100% correct, but doesn’t mean it’s an ‘insanely better car’. Stop moving the goal posts.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Besides the GT3 RS (and the GT4 RS may be arguably better), the others are not outstanding compared with many other sports cars. For track enthusiasts there is plenty of choice, whether you want faster lap times, more grip, better steering feel, better brakes, better gear change, etc. They are good all round sporting road cars with a loss in practicality compared with 4-seater sports sedans or coupes, but a long way from perfection from a driving perspective.

Wait, what? So GT3, S/T, GT4 are not special 911 variants?
You sound like someone that has never driven any 911.

[c1pher]

People make comparisons all the time between a less expensive car and a more expensive one to justify the lesser’s value. I think most people if they have the money would eventually succumb to buying the more expensive option.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by robopp

Every measurement wrong?
I got my numbers from the same sites as you did, except I’m in the US. I’ll correct your numbers since you apparently can’t do the conversion yourself and instead throw accusations around.

In the US manufacturers measure 0-60, not 100kph. Additionally, you missed the base 911 with sport chrono, which brings the time down .2 seconds so your quoted 0-100 numbers are wrong.

Weight
Again, 430lbs isn’t a big difference?! The M2 at 3800lbs is a very heavy car. It weighs the same as the M4! You’re weight numbers are correct for the Mustang. I was in a rush and having trouble finding weight numbers so I googled and didn’t use the manufacturer.

Size
The difference in size is M2 is 2.4” longer, 1.4” wider, and 4.1” taller. That’s a larger car? I guess it is, but that’s pretty damn close in proportions. Having a taller car in a sports car is not desirable, fyi.

Feel free to fact check me. Nothings changed and my numbers are and always were directly from the manufacturers.

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...ures-and-specs

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/9...odels/carrera/


I have no agenda. You said the M2 is ‘an insanely better car’. You then said the M2 has more practicality, which is 100% correct, but doesn’t mean it’s an ‘insanely better car’. Stop moving the goal posts.

Appreciate it.

I didn’t move goal posts.
The thing you guys don’t understand is that better is always a comparative measure, and it’s important to understand what’s being compared when discussing it.

You can argue a Porsche is better all you want, but all you get is that it’s a more expensive car. I gave you the measures where the M2 is better, and that’s why it’s better lol

Car = automobile

noun
au·​to·​mo·​bile | \ ˌȯ-tə-mō-ˈbēl , ˈȯ-tə-mō-ˌbēl, ˌȯ-tə-ˈmō-ˌbēl \
Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
: a usually four-wheeled automotive vehicle designed for passenger transportation

The M2 is a better car.

I said the Porsche may be the better toy. I’m not sure why this is a point of contention. The M2 is objectively better at everything a car does and is used for. Including being faster on a track (whether in a straight line or with turns).

If you want to argue the Porsche feels more special and is more of an event to drive (I’m not going to argue because I don’t know, I’ve never driven one and wouldn’t want to, I don’t like automatic cars), you can. That’s the definition of using something exclusively for pleasure. That is the dictionary definition of a “toy”.

Again, I think I made my point here and you guys must be trolling since I can see neither of the naysayers have either a Porsche or an M2, so the discussion is kind of moot since none of you guys who are bent out of shape have any skin in the game and we seem to be discussing car stats.

As to the weight of the M2, you’re missing that all cars are heavier. Case in point, the M2 is lighter than its competitors. Not just is the M2 lighter than its competitors, but it’s important to know that a Porsche that weighs over 1,500Kg is very heavy for its standards, go and compare with previous models and join their forums to see people making the same vague complaint. Leads nowhere.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by c1pher

People make comparisons all the time between a less expensive car and a more expensive one to justify the lesser’s value. I think most people if they have the money would eventually succumb to buying the more expensive option.

The Porsche is not a competitor to the M2.
A more expensive M2 would be an M8.

I think it’s awesome that you can fill some of the needs you have with a toy (Porsche) in an M2. That’s quite an accomplishment that a car that is not a sports car can be faster than the sports car, and still be better at other things.

Your situation is that you get your “itch” scratched by the M2, and would be fine with having the Porsche only if you could only afford one (although you don’t have the car being discussed here, but for sake of argument let’s use it as an example).

I only have one car and want one car. You couldn’t give me a Porsche for free… I wouldn’t keep it. Because it doesn’t work for me. Same with the dream Ferrari.

If I could have a toy on the side though… then I’d have a Porsche, a Ferrari, and what else… great point A to point A cars.
I’d take the M2 to go from point A to point B (and get there faster lol).

All that said as a friend. But most of the other people who are borderline trolling need to remember this is still the M2 forum: expect us to show you why it was the best, because we chose it for reasons. Otherwise we’d be in other forums doing the same

[c1pher]

Maybe an Ariel Atom is a toy. I wouldn’t consider a 911 a toy. I think you mean side car or weekender.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Appreciate it.

I didn’t move goal posts.
The thing you guys don’t understand is that better is always a comparative measure, and it’s important to understand what’s being compared when discussing it.

You can argue a Porsche is better all you want, but all you get is that it’s a more expensive car. I gave you the measures where the M2 is better, and that’s why it’s better lol

Car = automobile

noun
au·​to·​mo·​bile | \ ˌȯ-tə-mō-ˈbēl , ˈȯ-tə-mō-ˌbēl, ˌȯ-tə-ˈmō-ˌbēl \
Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
: a usually four-wheeled automotive vehicle designed for passenger transportation

The M2 is a better car.

I said the Porsche may be the better toy. I’m not sure why this is a point of contention. The M2 is objectively better at everything a car does and is used for. Including being faster on a track (whether in a straight line or with turns).

If you want to argue the Porsche feels more special and is more of an event to drive (I’m not going to argue because I don’t know, I’ve never driven one and wouldn’t want to, I don’t like automatic cars), you can. That’s the definition of using something exclusively for pleasure. That is the dictionary definition of a “toy”.

Again, I think I made my point here and you guys must be trolling since I can see neither of the naysayers have either a Porsche or an M2, so the discussion is kind of moot since none of you guys who are bent out of shape have any skin in the game and we seem to be discussing car stats.

As to the weight of the M2, you’re missing that all cars are heavier. Case in point, the M2 is lighter than its competitors. Not [...]

I presently own three cars - 2023 M340, 2020 X3M Competition, and a 2023 992 911 Carrera T manual. I’ve driven the G80 numerous times (had two allocations that I bailed on once I got the 911 allocation). The Porsche is very special and the manual is sublime.
A 1996 911 weighed in at 3100lbs. My T weighs 3250. That’s not a very big increase especially considering all the safety and creature comforts that have been added. A 1996 M3 weighed 3175lbs vs your M2 at 3800lbs. That’s a massive increase.

You make no sense with most of what you’re saying so with that I’m done with this interaction. Enjoy your M2.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by robopp

I presently own three cars - 2023 M340, 2020 X3M Competition, and a 2023 992 911 Carrera T manual. I’ve driven the G80 numerous times (had two allocations that I bailed on once I got the 911 allocation). The Porsche is very special and the manual is sublime.
A 1996 911 weighed in at 3100lbs. My T weighs 3250. That’s not a very big increase especially considering all the safety and creature comforts that have been added. A 1996 M3 weighed 3175lbs vs your M2 at 3800lbs. That’s a massive increase.

You make no sense with most of what you’re saying so with that I’m done with this interaction. Enjoy your M2.

See you in the lightweight X3M/G20 forums.