[Juny]

Originally Posted by jmanB45

I don't think VAC sells the bushings without the control arms. However, Millway does:

https://www.millway.se/control-arm-b...t-f2x-f3x.html

Yes I saw that. Maybe I need a site that sell it in USA.

[rlesko]

VAC doesn’t sell their bushings separately. I emailed them a while back specifically asking that question. You’ll have to go with another brand like Millway if you want just the bushing. Its what I plan to do since my control arms are covered under FCP Euro’s warranty.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Juny

VD09814
I asked Vac by email. She had to double check and said that gave me an answer today. But still waiting.

I looked up your RWD Thrust Arm part numbers in realoem. They are the same as the F30 RWD so the VAC Upper Control Arms will fit your car.

VAC won’t sell the bushings separate because too many idiots will screw up the installation and then try to return them. Instead the VAC machine shop (where they build race engines) installs their custom monoball bushings into brand new Lemforder control arms. Lemforder makes them for BMW. So you get the bushing along with a brand new control arm and a brand new ball joint on the other end.

Understand that monoball bushings are NOT all the same. They are not a commodity item. IMO VAC has the best design. It’s made to race specs. Totally changes the vague F-series steering to be much more precise.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by rlesko

VAC doesn’t sell their bushings separately. I emailed them a while back specifically asking that question. You’ll have to go with another brand like Millway if you want just the bushing. Its what I plan to do since my control arms are covered under FCP Euro’s warranty.

How easy is it to remove the bushing? Anyone got a good bushing puller??

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rlesko

VAC doesn’t sell their bushings separately. I emailed them a while back specifically asking that question. You’ll have to go with another brand like Millway if you want just the bushing. Its what I plan to do since my control arms are covered under FCP Euro’s warranty.

A control arm only has three pieces: bushing, aluminum arm and ball joint. The arm and ball joint rarely wear out so doubtful a warranty will ever be used. It’s the stock bushing that wears and leaks fluid.

[Juny]

Originally Posted by johnung

I looked up your RWD Thrust Arm part numbers in realoem. They are the same as the F30 RWD so the VAC Upper Control Arms will fit your car.

VAC won’t sell the bushings separate because too many idiots will screw up the installation and then try to return them. Instead the VAC machine shop (where they build race engines) installs their custom monoball bushings into brand new Lemforder control arms. Lemforder makes them for BMW. So you get the bushing along with a brand new control arm and a brand new ball joint on the other end.

Understand that monoball bushings are NOT all the same. They are not a commodity item. IMO VAC has the best design. It’s made to race specs. Totally changes the vague F-series steering to be much more precise.

Wow. Will look into that.
Mines are good now. Just wanted this upgrade. Maybe then. Great reviews for vac.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Juny

Wow. Will look into that.
Mines are good now. Just wanted this upgrade. Maybe then. Great reviews for vac.

Yup, you may come across one guy in the archives saying negative things about VAC monoball control arms. What he was saying was just not making sense so I called him on it. He finally admitted that he has never owned VAC’s. He bought some other brand that he hated. Then he just assumed that all monoballs were the same, so he started writing negatives about VAC too. Made zero sense!

I’ve had VAC’s for years and they have been amazing. I’ve probably recommended them to a dozen people. Everyone has come back with a positive experience.

[Juny]

Originally Posted by johnung

Yup, you may come across one guy in the archives saying negative things about VAC monoball control arms. What he was saying was just not making sense so I called him on it. He finally admitted that he has never owned VAC’s. He bought some other brand that he hated. Then he just assumed that all monoballs were the same, so he started writing negatives about VAC too. Made zero sense!

I’ve had VAC’s for years and they have been amazing. I’ve probably recommended them to a dozen people. Everyone has come back with a positive experience.

Yes. Same as I read. So I will do the upgrade maybe soon.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

A control arm only has three pieces: bushing, aluminum arm and ball joint. The arm and ball joint rarely wear out so doubtful a warranty will ever be used. It’s the stock bushing that wears and leaks fluid.

Let me clarify- I have a regular set of control arms installed right now which were purchased through FCP Euro. When the bushing wears out, I will get a replacement set of control arms via their lifetime guarantee and install the millway bushings, since VAC doesn’t sell separately.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rlesko

Let me clarify- I have a regular set of control arms installed right now which were purchased through FCP Euro. When the bushing wears out, I will get a replacement set of control arms via their lifetime guarantee and install the millway bushings, since VAC doesn’t sell separately.

It’s up to you. Keep in mind that it will probably take many years for brand new stock bushings to leak fluid and wear out. It doesn’t hurt to get something and enjoy driving it rather than waiting years. Millways are not the same as VACs. They are different designs. And there’s labor cost especially at a quality shop to press out and press in those large bearings. I saw one ruined by a tech who didn’t really know what he was doing. Good luck with whatever you decide

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

It’s up to you. Keep in mind that it will probably take many years for brand new stock bushings to leak fluid and wear out. It doesn’t hurt to get something and enjoy driving it rather than waiting years. Millways are not the same as VACs. They are different designs. And there’s labor cost especially at a quality shop to press out and press in those large bearings. I saw one ruined by a tech who didn’t really know what he was doing. Good luck with whatever you decide

Very true, the cost of enjoyment now vs saving money is always the existential question. Thanks for the tips on install, will keep that in mind.

[sdbwisc]

Originally Posted by johnung

It’s up to you. Keep in mind that it will probably take many years for brand new stock bushings to leak fluid and wear out. It doesn’t hurt to get something and enjoy driving it rather than waiting years. Millways are not the same as VACs. They are different designs. And there’s labor cost especially at a quality shop to press out and press in those large bearings. I saw one ruined by a tech who didn’t really know what he was doing. Good luck with whatever you decide

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iy7w5TRhh2xqXTA88

Hope that video works for you. But it's the main bushing and ball joint that are done for. The other side is solid as can be. VAC emailed me a few days after we talked. I am sending them this video. See how the customer service is, if good I will be buying the lowers

[sdbwisc]

Update on this: I sent my first email to support on 11/30/23, and I STILL haven't gotten an answer of what they want to do or not going to do… I sent another email Tuesday. I don't know if I want to buy any more products. Really would like to drive my car again…

[Dobrin]

Originally Posted by johnung

A few years ago I did the front VAC Upper Control (thrust) Arms first, mostly because I didn’t have the cash at the time to also do the lowers. About a year later I followed up by installing the front VAC Lower Control Arms (wishbones).

If you don’t have the funds to both at the same time it is definitely worth doing the Upper Thrust Arms first for two reasons:

1) The stock Thrust Arm bushing tends to wear out first, leaking fluid. Even if it’s not leaking yet, the odds are that the stock Uppers will need replacement before the stock Lowers.

2) The Upper Thrust Arm has more of an effect on steering then the Lower Wishbone. So installing the VAC Monoball Upper Thrust Arm will provide the most steering improvement.

The front VAC Monoball Lower Wishbones definitely add to the steering improvement. Based on my experience I’d say that the improvement from stock Lower Wishbone to VAC Monoball Lower Wishbone was another 50% improvement added to the steering improvement from stock Upper Thrust Arms to VAC Monoball Upper Thrust Arms.

I am very happy to have both pairs of front VAC Monoball Control Arms. The steering is now so much more precise. That stock vague F3x steering feel is gone! There is absolutely no additional Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH) transmitted to the cabin occupants. What is added is a really nice road feel, transmitted to the driver’s hands. With the VAC Front Monoball Control Arms the steering finally feels and performs like a fine European Sports Sedan should.

Thanks, this is a really nice explanation and insight! Since you had these VAC control arms for a while, can you, please comment on their durability? I am thinking to switch to them and don't want to end up changing them again soon, because they are so expensive. For comparison, I replace my Lemforder control arms on my 335i xDrive every 1.5 years (20k miles) because of the bad roads commuting to NYC.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Dobrin

Thanks, this is a really nice explanation and insight! Since you had these VAC control arms for a while, can you, please comment on their? I am thinking to switch to them and don't want to end up changing them again soon, because they are so expensive. For comparison, I replace my Lemforder control arms on my 335i xDrive every 1.5 years (20k miles) because of the bad roads commuting to NYC.

I have had the VAC Upper Control Arms (Thrust Arms) for four years now. They still ride like new. Philadelphia has its share of potholes too so I understand what you are saying. I can see how the big fluid filled stock control arm bushings would wear out quickly in a rough road environment. No such problem with the VAC monoball bushings.

There’s a simple way to explain it. The stock bushing, which is relatively stiff, attempts to dissipate those road forces by squeezing fluid through chambers. It’s a cheap way to do it, but the stock bushing eventually wears out and leaks. While the monoball with its freedom of movement just deflects that force altogether. See photos.

I’ve been modding my 2015 335ix for six years now. It’s all about making the car as much fun to drive as possible. The VAC monoball control arms are easily one of the top mods that I’ve done. One of the first things that I would do if I got another F3x.

FOR XDRIVE F3X:
https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...x-drive?aff=22

FOR RWD F3X:
https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...set-rwd?aff=22

Hope this helps!

[Dobrin]

Originally Posted by johnung

I have had the VAC Upper Control Arms (Thrust Arms) for four years now. They still ride like new. Philadelphia has its share of potholes too so I understand what you are saying. I can see how the big fluid filled stock control arm bushings would wear out quickly in a rough road environment. No such problem with the VAC monoball bushings.

There’s a simple way to explain it. The stock bushing, which is relatively stiff, attempts to dissipate those road forces by squeezing fluid through chambers. It’s a cheap way to do it, but the stock bushing eventually wears out and leaks. While the monoball with its freedom of movement just deflects that force altogether. See photos.

I’ve been modding my 2015 335ix for six years now. It’s all about making the car as much fun to drive as possible. The VAC monoball control arms are easily one of the top mods that I’ve done. One of the first things that I would do if I got another F3x.

FOR XDRIVE F3X:
https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...x-drive?aff=22

FOR RWD F3X:
https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...set-rwd?aff=22

Hope this helps!

Thanks, this was very helpful!!!

[sdbwisc]

Another update:

Don't procrastinate, I knew my control arm was bad in the summer and I didn't make time to take it out and video record it. So now I am purchasing a second one for that side. If another goes out again, I am NOT purchasing from them. I had to email them a dozen times, call a few times to get a response. I really like the driving aspect of these though, the handling is MUCH improved! Can't wait to be able to drive it again. It's been over a month. My fault for not taking it out prior to the 1-year warranty was up.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by sdbwisc

Another update:

Don't procrastinate, I knew my control arm was bad in the summer and I didn't make time to take it out and video record it. So now I am purchasing a second one for that side. If another goes out again, I am NOT purchasing from them. I had to email them a dozen times, call a few times to get a response. I really like the driving aspect of these though, the handling is MUCH improved! Can't wait to be able to drive it again. It's been over a month. My fault for not taking it out prior to the 1-year warranty was up.

Sorry to hear that you had an issue. That’s frustrating. We have all been there. I may be able to provide a little insight.

VAC is one of the most unique organizations that I’ve seen. Decades ago it had its roots in racing BMWs. It has a race shop that mods and prepares customer cars for the track. Out of that grew an engine building and repairing machine shop. And out of that grew a large engineering design and manufacturing shop with millions of dollars of CNC equipment. VAC’s roots and focus is on BMWs.

Those VAC Monoball control arm bushings are made on a $750k CNC. I happened to be there on a day when a batch was being made. And of course out of those efforts grew a large service shop to take care of daily drivers as well as a retail sales organization to sell the parts that they make as well as all of the brands that they recommend.

VAC in Philadelphia is local to me. Every time I’ve visited, I have seen something unique. Once I was there seeing race engine blocks being made from scratch. They start with a $3,000+ block of high quality aluminum. Then it begins a process that takes something like 60 machine hours on at least three different CNC’s. I asked the top engineer why they decided to build it. He said that they had the expertise and wanted to showcase what they could do.

They had a stack of billet blocks (see photo) and had just finished building the first one out with all of the best racing internals. It went out on a pallet to a buyer in Europe to test and install in a car. When I asked they said it was probably in the 1200+ horsepower range. They would know more when the anxious customer’s test numbers came in.

My point is that VAC isn’t designed and structured like the well oiled machine online retailers that many may be used to purchasing from. Retailing isn’t a super high priority. They don’t have a huge customer service organization. They are really focused on very high quality engineering, design and manufacturing.

Kies Motorsports is also local to me in NJ. They have a great relationship with VAC and sell their products. Kies is a retailer who is focused on customer service. So you can purchase your VAC Monoball control arms from Kies and enjoy free shipping and great customer service.

Kies has regular stocking orders in place with VAC. Products like this that are built on very expensive CNC’s have to be done in batches. Sometimes batches can take days. It can take hours for an engineer to setup a CNC with a dozen specialized cutting heads to create a specific part from a raw block of aluminum. Batches reduce the cost per unit. They could never make single units to order because it would be outrageously expensive. Professional race teams, NASA and the military could afford that but no one else.

Kies has the same availability as VAC. They have stocking orders in place and their facilities are 30 minutes apart. So as soon as it’s made at VAC, Kies has access to it the next day. I’m never concerned when I see Pre-Order, etc on the Kies website. That just means that there are none of the shelf but more are on the way. I just put my order in so that I am in the queue for it to ship out to me immediately when the next batch arrives. Kies corporate philosophy is to be honest about availability.

Hope this provides some additional insight.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by sdbwisc

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iy7w5TRhh2xqXTA88

Hope that video works for you. But it's the main bushing and ball joint that are done for. The other side is solid as can be. VAC emailed me a few days after we talked. I am sending them this video. See how the customer service is, if good I will be buying the lowers

My Millway FCABs also acquired quite a bit of play on the larger chassis-side bushing to the point where the thrust arm, on rare occasions, would contact the tie rod. I swapped them out for set of new BMW thrust arms.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rBnBs8fSe4

As for the vague steering some complain of regarding BMW's hydro-bushing, there is a slightly muted response to steering inputs but I did not find it to be a significant problem. The hydro-bushings tend to fail through a combination of 'aggressive use' and time. In other words, used as a daily, you might get 4-5 years. Take on and off ramps a full highway speed (or track it), yeah, probably going to kill those bushing in 2-3 years. It should be noted that swapping out the bushing for a new one carries the risk of cracking the aluminium arm. The suggestions to avoid the problem is to remove the arm from the car and have the bushing pressed out with a press to ensure even pressure. Time should be taken to inspect the arm for cracks. If a crack is present, no matter how small, get a new arm.

If you do decide to go with an aftermarket arm/bushing, the use of wider tires (e.g. 255) may help suck up some of the added vibration induced using a stiffer bushing.

For the me, I found that the lack of negative camber was a far bigger issue and that altering BMW's standard 1.0 degree to 2.0 degrees proved to be a bigger benefit in terms of enhanced steering and stability, particularly in turns. Note this solution has a downside that the inside of the tires can take quite a beating in the process, which is probably why BMW doesn't do it.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

My Millway FCABs also acquired quite a bit of play on the larger chassis-side bushing to the point where the thrust arm, on rare occasions, would contact the tie rod. I swapped them out for set of new BMW thrust arms.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6rBnBs8fSe4

As for the vague steering some complain of regarding BMW's hydro-bushing, there is a slightly muted response to steering inputs but I did not find it to be a significant problem. The hydro-bushings tend to fail through a combination of 'aggressive use' and time. In other words, used as a daily, you might get 4-5 years. Take on and off ramps a full highway speed (or track it), yeah, probably going to kill those bushing in 2-3 years. It should be noted that swapping out the bushing for a new one carries the risk of cracking the aluminium arm. The suggestions to avoid the problem is to remove the arm from the car and have the bushing pressed out with a press to ensure even pressure. Time should be taken to inspect the arm for cracks. If a crack is present, no matter how small, get a new arm.

If you do decide to go with an aftermarket arm/bushing, the use of wider tires (e.g. 255) may help suck up some of the added vibration induced using a stiffer bushing.

For the me, I found that the lack of negative camber was a far bigger issue and that altering BMW's standard 1.0 degree to 2.0 degrees proved to be a bigger benefit in terms of enhanced steering and stability, particularly in turns. Note this solution has a downside that the inside of the tires can take quite a beating in the process, which is probably why BMW doesn't do it.

roughly how long did it take for them to wear out? was considering the millways because my control arms are relatively new.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by rlesko

roughly how long did it take for them to wear out? was considering the millways because my control arms are relatively new.

Roughly 2 yrs, perhaps a bit less.

[mysterio]

Anyone know if xdrive arms can be installed on a RWD car? VAC seems to have sent me xdrive arms even though I ordered RWD. I'm guessing the answer is no given that the subframes, and presumably pickup point dimensions are different but wondered if anyone has any better idea.