[Nafy]

Mfactory - How I lost $1000cad and valuable time for nothing

- Purchased a fully rebuilt pumpkin with lsd and different final drive from Mfactory when it was on sale.

- Received it in three weeks and brought it to a local shop for installation.

- Shop called me and said the diff doesnt fit because the pinion flange is the wrong type (see attached pictures). Paid $330cad labour to uninstall and install the original diff.

- Contacted Mfactory and had to send the diff back to put in the correct flange.

- Mfactory sent me another one and gave me the $330cad back for the labour (good service). It was a hassle to return the original diff though.

- Brought the replacement to the shop again for installation. New one fits perfectly.

- On my way home from the shop, I started hearing metallic noise. It didn't sound normal to me and sounded like bearing issues.

- I did research online and the noise matches other car with bearing issues. Worn bearings could destroy the diff.

- Took the car a local shop specialized in differential for verification. They had a look and concluded that the noise is coming from the bearings (see attached shop comment).

- Contacted Mfactory again and asked why the bearings are worn and not replaced since they advertised the diff as fully rebuilt.

- They said they "check" and "clean" everything and I could send the diff back and have new bearings replaced for additional $400usd. Not to mention shipping and labour cost on top.

- I expect everything works when they advertised it as "fully rebuilt".

- It is funny that they HIGHLY recommend changing the Diff Bearings at the same time as installing a new LSD as these are wear item, when they are selling their Mfactory Differential Rebuild Kits. See link: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29038

- By then I already lost the confidence of getting a quality product from them. I decided to cut loss and return the diff.

- At the end I lost about $1000cad due to labour, shipping and custom fees. Lots of time wasted and headache that came with it.

It sucks and I learnt my lesson of not spending more money with a reputable company like performance gearing. If I was told that bearings needed to be replaced at the time of purchase and it is going to cost a more, I would've gone for it.

Overall I think they have decent service, but they need to improve their quality control. Don't set a lower price point by sacraficing the product quality.

If you like more details of this unpleasant experience, let me know. Thanks for reading.

[MFactory]

First of all, I would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused by this. This is NOT typical of our core rebuilds, and I believe we did offer you a refund in the end.

We do indeed check all bearings to make sure they are in working order at the time of rebuild, however, as with the nature of any wear parts (especially bearings), it is impossible for us to determine exactly when they will fail, unless they were severely worn (i.e pitted) and would most definitely have recommended changing them.

Whilst we do offer (and recommend changing) diff bearings for sale separately, we also offer our PRO Series pumpkins, which is a complete overhaul of the entire pumpkin with brand new everything internally.

If you wish to discuss this further, please send in a support ticket on our website, and we will look into your case in more detail and see where we can help alleviate any concerns/frustrations.

Thanks!

[k335d]

Wow thats a lot of shipping costs for something that should have been right before being sent out.

[playground]

This is very bad news... I was planning to get a LSD for my DD from M-Factory but now I really gotta think twice. When I hear about "rebuild" I assume even the bearings would have been changed too! Sounds like they wanted to save some money and skipped a few steps! I understand how you feel OP, living in Canada and dealing with duties back and forth is no fun. You can try to contact the customs office to see if you can claim back some of it, since you already paid for duties the first time it came into Canada.

[davidwarren]

Originally Posted by playground

This is very bad news... I was planning to get a LSD for my DD from M-Factory but now I really gotta think twice. When I hear about "rebuild" I assume even the bearings would have been changed too! Sounds like they wanted to save some money and skipped a few steps! I understand how you feel OP, living in Canada and dealing with duties back and forth is no fun. You can try to contact the customs office to see if you can claim back some of it, since you already paid for duties the first time it came into Canada.

For what it's worth, I've had my mfactory rebuilt pumpkin in for over a year without issue. Not to discredit the OP's issue by any means, but that sounds more like the exception than the rule.

[DR-JEKL]

I've seen various QA issues with this company now, and in all my years on these forums never an issue with wavetrac quaiffe etc...

I'm damn glad I've not purchased any of their products...

[IllSic_Design]

All I know is if I purchase a rebuilt rear diff, I expect new bearings as part of being "rebuilt". So what do you guys even rebuild then, from reading the site it looks like you guys just check(visual it looks like) the diff out and clean/paint it before slapping your lsd unit in it?

Looks like I won't be looking at MFactory for a lsd diff for my car.

[playground]

Originally Posted by davidwarren

For what it's worth, I've had my mfactory rebuilt pumpkin in for over a year without issue. Not to discredit the OP's issue by any means, but that sounds more like the exception than the rule.

Sounds good but when I hear something like a "rebuild" I'd expect everything to be overhauled, most importantly the bearings! What it sounds like from the OP is that all he had done was install an LSD. That is not called "rebuild".
Hope M-Factory sorts it out, I've heard plenty of good things about them throughout the years!

[MFactory]

Originally Posted by DR-JEKL

I've seen various QA issues with this company now, and in all my years on these forums never an issue with wavetrac quaiffe etc...

I'm damn glad I've not purchased any of their products...

As you are from AU, please keep/refrain from posting up the AU issues (which were not even our fault) on our US-based threads, as it has nothing to do with us.

As mentioned above, we do indeed check all bearings to make sure they are in working order at the time of rebuild, however, as with the nature of any wear parts (especially bearings), it is impossible for us to determine exactly when they will fail, unless they were severely worn (i.e pitted) and would most definitely have recommended changing them.

There is not 1 single diff specialist in the US that will automatically use new bearings with your "rebuild", not one. They, like us, will offer to sell you new oem bearings though should we find something out of the ordinary.

These are NOT your typical VAG, Honda etc where you can just go on eBay and buy a $10 replacement bearing. These bearings are custom-made for BMW (so you can't go to NTN, *** etc and buy them neither), and BMW do not sell any of the diff internals separately (they only sell the whole pumpkin).

BMW 135i/335i bearings are hard to come by, and subsequently are very expensive ($200-300 for a pair of diff bearings). THIS is why they are not included automatically with a diff rebuild.

If you guys want to see the end of any Group Buys, Black Friday Specials etc, for the sake of having new diff bearings included as standard, that's fine by me. However, I'm sure 90% on this forum will disagree with that change.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by MFactory

As you are from AU, please keep/refrain from posting up the AU issues (which were not even our fault) on our US-based threads, as it has nothing to do with us.

As mentioned above, we do indeed check all bearings to make sure they are in working order at the time of rebuild, however, as with the nature of any wear parts (especially bearings), it is impossible for us to determine exactly when they will fail, unless they were severely worn (i.e pitted) and would most definitely have recommended changing them.

There is not 1 single diff specialist in the US that will automatically use new bearings with your "rebuild", not one. They, like us, will offer to sell you new oem bearings though should we find something out of the ordinary.

These are NOT your typical VAG, Honda etc where you can just go on eBay and buy a $10 replacement bearing. These bearings are custom-made for BMW (so you can't go to NTN, *** etc and buy them neither), and BMW do not sell any of the diff internals separately (they only sell the whole pumpkin).

BMW 135i/335i bearings are hard to come by, and subsequently are very expensive ($200-300 for a pair of diff bearings). THIS is why they are not included automatically with a diff rebuild.

If you guys want to see the end of any Group Buys, Black Friday Specials etc, for the sake of having new diff bearings included as standard, that's fine by me. However, I'm sure 90% on this forum will disagree with that change.

You should have at least disclose that so you would not have to do damage control now. Usage of VAG, Honda and etc. excuse or and explanation, whatever it is, makes absolutely ZERO sense. If they are perceived as "lesser" brands that doesn't mean they make inferior products. Also, whether EU, US or AU market ? What is that. Stand by your product and all suppliers. Hiding behind particular market is just lame. On your Group Buys and Friday Special comment, well that is just marketing bullying. I don't appreciate it.

[MFactory]

Nothing is perceived as "lesser" brands; it was simply an example as those other brands have readily available bearings, unlike with BMW.

We do 100% stand by our product, but do not want to be dragged into something that is not our responsibility and have our name tarnished for something that was not even our fault. To put it short, we were threatened/blackmailed by the customer; so decided we wanted nothing to do with that customer.

As for our comment, how else do you want me to put it? It's not marketing bullying. Customers are always eager to jump onto special deals and/or ask for extra discount, and for all intent and purposes, we are (and have been) happy to provide, otherwise we wouldn't even be on this forum! But you need to be made aware of the pitfalls also. Not marketing bullying; just reality.

But anyway, yes, in hindsight, we should have made this clearer to the customer back when he ordered from us and we have done what we can to rectify the situation with him.

[titium]

Originally Posted by MFactory

We do 100% stand by our product, but do not want to be dragged into something that is not our responsibility and have our name tarnished for something that was not even our fault. To put it short, we were threatened/blackmailed by the customer; so decided we wanted nothing to do with that customer.

I guess your 100% is different to mine.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by MFactory

Nothing is perceived as "lesser" brands; it was simply an example as those other brands have readily available bearings, unlike with BMW.

We do 100% stand by our product, but do not want to be dragged into something that is not our responsibility and have our name tarnished for something that was not even our fault. To put it short, we were threatened/blackmailed by the customer; so decided we wanted nothing to do with that customer.

As for our comment, how else do you want me to put it? It's not marketing bullying. Customers are always eager to jump onto special deals and/or ask for extra discount, and for all intent and purposes, we are (and have been) happy to provide, otherwise we wouldn't even be on this forum! But you need to be made aware of the pitfalls also. Not marketing bullying; just reality.

But anyway, yes, in hindsight, we should have made this clearer to the customer back when he ordered from us and we have done what we can to rectify the situation with him.

Exactly, you should have made it clear from the get go. You had the information. Not only to this particular customer but to all potential customers. For me personally as potential customer your comments only made the situation worse. The example about "lesser" brands was inadequate choice since LSD for those cost less on avarage. Why would that be if parts are readily available unlike BMW? If BMW parts aren't available hence you not installing them it should drag BMW LSD prices down. Of we pay premium because is BMW? Either that or "lesser" brands are being skimmed too with not receiving 100% rebuild units as advertised. Additionally admitting that Mfactory cuts down on quality control and falsely advertises 100% rebuild units is beyond unacceptable. Basically, you say OK at the company meeting we felt guilty that we are skimming and decided to give these sad guys a group buy discount so we won't feel bad about ourselves. Again, is very wrong to be pointing fingers at your customer and approved suppliers. Whether I'm in America, Austria or Afganistan and purchasing a let say a new BMW, I would expect same quality product as customers in Germany and elsewhere. Why would I expect or receive anything different. Your premise is beyond unreasonable. Lastly, yes you are bullying saying if I want quality product it won't be available for sale at reduced price ever, pushing me to purchase low quality for less money. The forums and forum sponsors like you here only exists because of us customers. Economy is chain of events. Customers buy product from you. You make profit and pay sponsor fee to be on here. No customers. No money. No forum. You have lot more explaining to do and I suggested you think it through and even consult a marketing specialist because this has been handled poorly.

[MFactory]

Originally Posted by feuer

Exactly, you should have made it clear from the get go. You had the information. Not only to this particular customer but to all potential customers. For me personally as potential customer your comments only made the situation worse. The example about "lesser" brands was inadequate choice since LSD for those cost less on avarage. Why would that be if parts are readily available unlike BMW? If BMW parts aren't available hence you not installing them it should drag BMW LSD prices down. Of we pay premium because is BMW? Either that or "lesser" brands are being skimmed too with not receiving 100% rebuild units as advertised. Additionally admitting that Mfactory cuts down on quality control and falsely advertises 100% rebuild units is beyond unacceptable. Basically, you say OK at the company meeting we felt guilty that we are skimming and decided to give these sad guys a group buy discount so we won't feel bad about ourselves. Again, is very wrong to be pointing fingers at your customer and approved suppliers. Whether I'm in America, Austria or Afganistan and purchasing a let say a new BMW, I would expect same quality product as customers in Germany and elsewhere. Why would I expect or receive anything different. Your premise is beyond unreasonable. Lastly, yes you are bullying saying if I want quality product it won't be available for sale at reduced price ever, pushing me to purchase low quality for less money. The forums and forum sponsors like you here only exists because of us customers. Economy is chain of events. Customers buy product from you. You make profit and pay sponsor fee to be on here. No customers. No money. No forum. You have lot more explaining to do and I suggested you think it through and even consult a marketing specialist because this has been handled poorly.

What exactly have we handled poorly here? Everything you have said in your post, you've misunderstood what I said in my post, as I didn't mean any of what you said.

Rather than arguing about it (as that gets no where), why don't YOU tell ME exactly what it is you want me to say?

I already replied to the OP saying that we are willing to work something out. So what else do you require me to say in this thread? To make it easier for you to understand my replies, put it in bullet points to make it easier for me to answer you

[MFactory]

Originally Posted by titium

I guess your 100% is different to mine.

And what issues did you have exactly? Have you contacted us about it?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by MFactory

What exactly have we handled poorly here? Everything you have said in your post, you've misunderstood what I said in my post, as I didn't mean any of what you said.

Rather than arguing about it (as that gets no where), why don't YOU tell ME exactly what it is you want me to say?

I already replied to the OP saying that we are willing to work something out. So what else do you require me to say in this thread? To make it easier for you to understand my replies, put it in bullet points to make it easier for me to answer you

1-why advertised 100% fully rebuild doesn't include bearings? Why was that omitted from the product description.
2-BMW doesn't sell the bearings seperately but sell the whole pumpkin but you can replace the bearings for extra $300. How?
3-bearings are hard to come by or not available as previously stated? You go back and forth. Which one is true?
4-since bearings are available for other makes and you are replacing them why BMW LSD on avarage cost more even without bearings replacement?
5-how all of this is linked with M-factory group sales? Why you can't have sale if diff come with new bearings? You said it will be bye bye to those sale. Doesn't add up.
6-how is OP issue a specific market issue and not M-factory issue? If I'm for 3rd world county should I expect equally poor service and product?
7-why do you deflect and blame this on the supplier? Is your product and profit.
8-you say costumer black mailed you and ask to stop writing about the issue on US based threads. Why? Are diffs different for AU and US?
9-Was if of fear it will hurt sales on your biggest market? If so! You should have given this customer what he wanted. He was going to start a very different thread.
10-lastly (I think 10 is enough, yes?) why and how you conclude that I don't understand your replies? I do! Very well. In fact I think the oposite applies.

[MFactory]

Originally Posted by feuer

1-why advertised 100% fully rebuild doesn't include bearings? Why was that omitted from the product description.
2-BMW doesn't sell the bearings seperately but sell the whole pumpkin but you can replace the bearings for extra $300. How?
3-bearings are hard to come by or not available as previously stated? You go back and forth. Which one is true?
4-since bearings are available for other makes and you are replacing them why BMW LSD on avarage cost more even without bearings replacement?
5-how all of this is linked with M-factory group sales? Why you can't have sale if diff come with new bearings? You said it will be bye bye to those sale. Doesn't add up.
6-how is OP issue a specific market issue and not M-factory issue? If I'm for 3rd world county should I expect equally poor service and product?
7-why do you deflect and blame this on the supplier? Is your product and profit.
8-you say costumer black mailed you and ask to stop writing about the issue on US based threads. Why? Are diffs different for AU and US?
9-Was if of fear it will hurt sales on your biggest market? If so! You should have given this customer what he wanted. He was going to start a very different thread.
10-lastly (I think 10 is enough, yes?) why and how you conclude that I don't understand your replies? I do! Very well. In fact I think the oposite applies.

1) We don't just open the pumpkin and install the LSD. We strip the pumpkin apart, wash/debur all the internal components, wash/clean the housing and apply a new coat of paint, check/inspect the bearings, install the LSD, set the pre-load, set the back-lash, bench-test everything then seal the cover back on.

Although we don't replace the bearings with our regular carrier builds, we do check them. This does not mean that we haven't "rebuilt" the pumpkin, as we have. If our PRO Series Carrier is purchased, then we also replace with all new bearings and our solid pinion sleeve

2) Because we have contacts within BMW to source the bearings

3) The bearings are very hard to come by unless you have contacts within BMW. However, for the end-consumer, it is not so difficult now as several vendors now sell the bearings (whom either purchase through their contacts within BMW, or purchase through specialists like ourselves)

4) That is a silly question, tbh. Different parts tend to have a different price. Labour cost, we charge more to rebuild a Honda transmission compared to rebuilding a BMW pumpkin. The BMW LSD itself costs more ($999.95) vs the Honda ($699.95). The BMW DCT/MT's also require additional machining work due to having a welded differential ($500+ depending on the machine shop you go to) and require some additional parts such as spacers and bolts to be able to install the LSD

5) My comment is what is called "sarcasm", but with a hint of reality (not bullying, but just the reality of the situation). We have, and still will, continue to support the BMW forums with group buys, black friday specials etc

6) OP is from Canada. His issue isn't to do with our product, but regional issue (i.e shipping to another country, duty/tax to another country). We have apologised, compensated him for his original loss, and have offered to assist further in light of this thread. What else are we supposed to do?

7) We haven't blamed this on any supplier. What exactly are you talking about? This thread is about the costs that the OP had to pay for shipping/duty/tax

8) Different markets have different distributors. AU customer purchased from the AU distributor (who is not on this forum). US distributor (me) offered assistance, but was then threatened/blackmailed. Why should the US distributor (me) then be subject to these threats and bad feedback/comments when the item concerned was not purchased from the US distributor (me)?

9) Who/what are you talking about now?

10) The fact that I have had to reply to you in this manner certainly does suggest you did not understand my previous posts/replies

[bahn]

For what it's worth I'm in agreement, rebuilt should mean rebuilt. I mean the definition of the word is: to repair, especially to dismantle and reassemble with new parts.

While you do state on your site what it is you do with the cores I believe your use of the word is greatly misleading.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by MFactory

1)
10) The fact that I have had to reply to you in this manner certainly does suggest you did not understand my previous posts/replies

Originally Posted by bahn

For what it's worth I'm in agreement, rebuilt should mean rebuilt. I mean the definition of the word is: to repair, especially to dismantle and reassemble with new parts.
While you do state on your site what it is you do with the cores I believe your use of the word is greatly misleading.

Case in point Bahn! Vendor's communication was wishy washy and condescending, thus me making the list with questions. I don't think that I lack reading comprehension. Their original response to this thread should have been their answers to all my question. Instead they deflected.

[MFactory]

No, we didn't. Our original response was to the OP, in which we offered further assistance with his issue(s). Your "questions" only came about in a later post in which you mis-understood my replies. Mis-understanding can be seen as some as being talked down on (condescending), but rest assured, that was not my intention. If you felt that way, then I apologise

If we can't use the word "rebuilt", then please suggest a word for us to use?

We have explained exactly what we do when we "rebuild", have apologised and attempted to make amends with the OP, and have promised to be more clear in future on exactly what our "rebuilt units" include and don't include.

So exactly what is it you guys are wanting us to do exactly that we haven't already done?

Instead of arguing or agreeing with other people's posts to things that we have already resolved, why not just tell me exactly what you want (that we haven't already resolved)?

[Sgop335]

Sorry when i see jims note...
Excelleration or decellerating could be french

[Cloud9blue]

Pretty sure the replacement bearing I got from the dealer didn't costs all that much when I put my wavetrac in a few years ago... If you are taking it apart, might as well replace it.

Also, rebuild means rebuilding the diff to factory specs, so you should be replacing all the wear and tear items such as bearings... honestly, I wouldn't might if you guys charge an extra $100 for the parts and labor for the rebuilt pumpkin, just to not deal with BS like this... replacing a diff requires an actual shop to carry out the job for almost everyone expect for the few hardcore-DIY people out there, dropping the car off at a shop and paying a few hundreds for labor just to find out your "new" diff is broken is just a PIA...