[Zirenz2006]

Originally Posted by laughMan

i really like to see the take rate of cognac.
at least according to the small sample size here in this forum,
if not 1/3, it feels like at least 20%, that’s not low.

i also feel this move is a tactic to move ppl to m4.

bmw needs to admit that they messed up the m3 and m4 big time with that big front teeth style! i believe some Ppl rather move down to m2 or work away from bmw.
so this tactic may back fire.

if they had kept the m3/4 good looking like previous gen. , the sales would not be this bad.
911 and Cayman just keep their classic look over all these years, and they have no problem selling.

Sales of the M3 and M4 are not bad at all. Did you get your information from fantasyland?

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Joker96

Man, I'll have to think over if I want the car. It seems like they're just taking stuff away and the M2 gets the short end of the stick in the product line.

Moving up a performance / pricing teir and losing features that a cheaper car has is odd to me. Other than the engine....what features are you getting that the 240i doesn't have ?

So G87 has no cooled / ventilated seats , no 360 or front camera, less color options, etc

engine, suspension, brakes, gearbox tuning, chassis tuning, seats, more interior ambient lighting, carbon roof option, interior carbon option...just off the top of my head.

[reward72]

It is like BMW is sabotaging the M2 success on purpose. We were complaining about the lack of exterior color options, they listened, but now they remove the only interior that wasn't black. I'm sorry, I know I'm being superficial, but I refuse to spend that much money on a car with a boring black interior.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by reward72

It is like BMW is sabotaging the M2 success on purpose. We were complaining about the lack of exterior color options, they listened, but now they remove the only interior that wasn't black. I'm sorry, I know I'm being superficial, but I refuse to spend that much money on a car with a boring black interior.

Everyone has the right to be superficial.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by laughMan

i really like to see the take rate of cognac.
at least according to the small sample size here in this forum,
if not 1/3, it feels like at least 20%, that’s not low.

i also feel this move is a tactic to move ppl to m4.

bmw needs to admit that they messed up the m3 and m4 big time with that big front teeth style! i believe some Ppl rather move down to m2 or work away from bmw.
so this tactic may back fire.

if they had kept the m3/4 good looking like previous gen. , the sales would not be this bad.
911 and Cayman just keep their classic look over all these years, and they have no problem selling.

Originally Posted by Zirenz2006

Sales of the M3 and M4 are not bad at all. Did you get your information from fantasyland?

The sales figures are good, which I'll admit is surprising. I guess enough people like me where they hate the styling but it's the best house in a bad neighborhood. I went back up to an M3 (hit) and then an M4 after having gone from M4 to M2C because I will not pay what they're charging for a Mexican built M2.

As for the Cognac, I agree the take rate seems pretty high. After my M3 was hit, I had an order for ZB over cognac until I stuck with the M4. I was thrilled there was a non-black option. Having said that, the take rate on the forums is nothing compared to what's out there on lots. If you do a search, you'll find almost none of the lot cars have the Cognac. It's a sea of gray on black.

It's nice to see them adding new colors. I think there was an initial pop and then a lull in sales. I saw two separate youtube videos where new cars (under 500 miles) had been sold to Carmax/picked up repossessed at auction. I think part of the problem for the M2 is that it's no longer cheap enough to be cheap but it's also not expensive enough to be expensive.

Coupes are a tough sell period, especially small ones. A $100k M3 is an easy sale because it's large enough to be what an M5 used to be. The M4 is a disaster for multiple reasons, chiefly it's the ugliest and the price is absurd. Having said that, you can get a loaded up one in a cool color with a 5 figure discount, so it becomes an interesting proposition given its capabilities. That leaves the M2. I submit there are a whole heck of a lot of folks who can stretch into a $55-57k plus tax sports coupe. There are a whole heck of a lot fewer who can do the same at the $66-75k plus tax these cars are specced to. It's probably just a tad too far to the right on the price bell curve.

I was just at Indy Motor Speedway with BMW for 2 days. Everyone commented on how fun the little M2 was, but nobody was going home to order one. Biggest two reasons were styling and interior feel/quality. This is a HUGE departure from what I experienced when it was F80/2/7 cars we were driving. Having said that, there were only a couple who were getting ready to order a G80. Of course, nobody was rushing off to buy an M4. Wrt to sales figures being string, I mentioned that though we all hated the new cars, I get tons of comments from the non-enthusiast crowd on how great they look. Multiple people agreed they had heard the same. So, clearly BMW has attracted the public, even if they've pissed some of us off.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

The sales figures are good, which I'll admit is surprising. I guess enough people like me where they hate the styling but it's the best house in a bad neighborhood. I went back up to an M3 (hit) and then an M4 after having gone from M4 to M2C because I will not pay what they're charging for a Mexican built M2.

As for the Cognac, I agree the take rate seems pretty high. After my M3 was hit, I had an order for ZB over cognac until I stuck with the M4. I was thrilled there was a non-black option. Having said that, the take rate on the forums is nothing compared to what's out there on lots. If you do a search, you'll find almost none of the lot cars have the Cognac. It's a sea of gray on black.

It's nice to see them adding new colors. I think there was an initial pop and then a lull in sales. I saw two separate youtube videos where new cars (under 500 miles) had been sold to Carmax/picked up repossessed at auction. I think part of the problem for the M2 is that it's no longer cheap enough to be cheap but it's also not expensive enough to be expensive.

Coupes are a tough sell period, especially small ones. A $100k M3 is an easy sale because it's large enough to be what an M5 used to be. The M4 is a disaster for multiple reasons, chiefly it's the ugliest and the price is absurd. Having said that, you can get a loaded up one in a cool color with a 5 figure discount, so it becomes an interesting proposition given its capabilities. That leaves the M2. I submit there are a whole heck of a lot of folks who can stretch into a $55-57k plus tax sports coupe. There are a whole heck of a lot fewer who can do the same at the $66-75k plus tax these cars are specced to. It's probably just a tad too far to the right on the price bell curve.

I was just at Indy Motor Speedway with BMW for 2 days. Everyone commented on how fun the little M2 was, but nobody was going home to order one. Biggest two reasons were styling and interior feel/quality. This is a HUGE departure from what I experienced when it was F80/2/7 cars we were driving. Having said that, there were only a couple who were getting ready to order a G80. Of course, nobody was rushing off to buy an M4. Wrt to sales figures being string, I mentioned that though we all hated the new cars, I get tons of comments from the non-enthusiast crowd on how great they look. Multiple people agreed they had heard the same. So, clearly BMW has attracted the public, even if they've pissed some of us off.

for me personally, my M340i got totaled and when deciding what to do I noticed that A: the M2 was now available and B: it was close to the same price as a M340i optioned the way I wanted it. Can't say no to a proper M-division car for around the same price.

And the Mexican issue is a non-issue, it's a state of the art plant and it's been producing super solid cars for a few years now.

[Joker96]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

engine, suspension, brakes, gearbox tuning, chassis tuning, seats, more interior ambient lighting, carbon roof option, interior carbon option...just off the top of my head.

You're the 3rd+ person who said theres different amounts of ambient lighting in the 240i , M2 , M4. I tired looking at videos online and I cant see a difference? It could be the videos I'm looking at but they all seem to have the same amount.

[Joker96]

Originally Posted by reward72

It is like BMW is sabotaging the M2 success on purpose. We were complaining about the lack of exterior color options, they listened, but now they remove the only interior that wasn't black. I'm sorry, I know I'm being superficial, but I refuse to spend that much money on a car with a boring black interior.

They are, they can't make it too appealing or why buy an M4 ?

You're not being superficial, the cost 63k, thats too much fucking money to remove stuff people want.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by robopp

Agreed. Any green would have been great - IOMG or a nice dark green would have looked killer. It really is annoying you can spend $70k on a car and still feel gypped - poor leather quality, no 360 camera, no interior color options, no individual, etc.

....then you roll the throttle open past 5k rpm on corner exit already doing 75mph+ and feel it dig in and hold it's line and all that goes away

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Joker96

You're the 3rd+ person who said theres different amounts of ambient lighting in the 240i , M2 , M4. I tired looking at videos online and I cant see a difference? It could be the videos I'm looking at but they all seem to have the same amount.

it's the light bar on the passenger side, I don't think that's on the lower 2-series, at least in the U.S. Could be mistaken though. Also the m-color inserts on the doors are illuminated as standard on the M2, have to pay for that on lower models, same with the H&K sound system etc.

This car is more about the driving experience then random interior options, if you're more concerned with the latter it's probably not the model for you. I will say though, the carbon interior pack makes it feel way more upscale. A must-have option if you're buying this car imo.

[Ronin76]

Man, must be something wrong with me. I like the M4 more than the M3. Mainly because I do not want a 4 door sedan. Thing that turns me off a little about the M4 (and M3) is that it is a big car. My preference is something smaller (roughly 180 inches in length).

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

Man, must be something wrong with me. I like the M4 more than the M3. Mainly because I do not want a 4 door sedan. Thing that turns me off a little about the M4 (and M3) is that it is a big car. My preference is something smaller (roughly 180 inches in length).

I’m with you on the M4 vs M3. Less practical but nicer looking.

I drove an M4CS but going home in a M240i, the larger size was a dealer breaker. Ordered our M2 a few days later.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by evdoho

I’ll do that deal at my store if they turn you down, but I’m not sure where you’re located.
We’re in the southeast, could probably include shipping if it’s not too far.

Thanks for the offer. My local Penske Auto Group BMW dealership agreed with my $1,500 discount and I'm buying the M4 accordingly. Thought about the AWD version but just more money than I'm willing to spend.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

Originally Posted by reward72

It is like BMW is sabotaging the M2 success on purpose. We were complaining about the lack of exterior color options, they listened, but now they remove the only interior that wasn't black. I'm sorry, I know I'm being superficial, but I refuse to spend that much money on a car with a boring black interior.

Sabotaging?

Where do you work?

Does your employer generally make random product decisions willy nilly?

It's a cost/benefit analysis. In simple terms, not worth the cost to manufacture. That means a statistically insignificant amount of people are optioning it. That means the cognac option isn't actually helping sell cars.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by Joker96

They are, they can't make it too appealing or why buy an M4 ?

You're not being superficial, the cost 63k, thats too much fucking money to remove stuff people want.

You’re really going to miss the 8 track tape player right?

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

Thanks for the offer. My local Penske Auto Group BMW dealership agrees with my $1,500 discount and buying the M4 accordingly. Though about the AWD version by just more money than I'm willing to spend.

.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

Thanks for the offer. My local Penske Auto Group BMW dealership agrees with my $1,500 discount and buying the M4 accordingly. Though about the AWD version by just more money than I'm willing to spend.

Interested in playing some poker?

[m2not1LE]

I don't play poker or gamble. Anyway, I'm very happy that I stepped up from an M2 to an M4 order. Should be a nice car.

Still love the M2 as well.

Having said that, I'm beyond sick and tired of black interiors and want something different at these general price levels. M4 of course also has many other added features.

Note that I've been driving VW GTIs since 2010 (2010, 2013, 2015 and 2018) and understand that not everyone can make the price jump between the M2 and M4. Only reason I can is due to economizing with the GTIs and being a mechanical design engineer (now retired, so older than many on here).

Over the long term, scrimping to invest in stocks pays off.

Originally Posted by Carefree

Interested in playing some poker?

[m2not1LE]

More to it than that; BMW wants to move potential M2 buyers into the more profitable M4 by further restricting M2 interior color options. M4 is loaded with interior color options plus full leather option I the same colors at added cost.

In my case BMW won by eliminating the cognac interior from the 2025 M2. I just cancelled my 2025 M2 order accordingly and replaced it with 2025 M4 order. I won't be alone in this decision, per BMW's planned intent.

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

Sabotaging?

Where do you work?

Does your employer generally make random product decisions willy nilly?

It's a cost/benefit analysis. In simple terms, not worth the cost to manufacture. That means a statistically insignificant amount of people are optioning it. That means the cognac option isn't actually helping sell cars.

[m2not1LE]

As I've mentioned in other posts, the elimination of the cognac interior in 2025 M2s swayed me to instead order a 2024 M4 Competition, which offers a large variety of interior color options plus a whole lot more equipment.

Dealer wanted full BMW MSRP for the M2, but agreed to my offer to discount the M4 ($1,500 off BMW MSRP) because they have more profit in the M4.

M4 comes standard with carbon fiber roof and so many other things that the price delta (when M4 options are sensibly chosen) really isn't all that much.

Originally Posted by Mhrob24

I’m so pisssed the cognac interior is gone….wtf man lol.


I’m still ganna hold my place in line for 2025 allocation though. I’m liking skyscraper grey over Brooklyn grey. Not feeling the other new colors though 😐

[m2not1LE]

Assuming equal strength, the 825M wheels would be the lightest - IF they are the sole forged offering. (Perhaps they are not.) Almost certainly 6061-T6 aluminum alloy. When I did my 2025 M4 build, the only wheel showing as "forged" is the 825M.

Will note that this information backs your claim that 826M wheels are lighter than 825M, though is the 826 a forging or casting? Will also note that 826M isn't the lightest wheel, either:

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...3#post27956883

Cast wheels require much thicker (and therefore heavier) wall thicknesses in order to achieve similar strength, albeit at the expense of added weight. Castings will almost invariably heavier unless they're weaker in overall structure.

I am a mechanical design engineer who's specific a host of different aluminum alloys - both forged and cast. Forged 6061-T6 is just in a different league than castings.

Also, check this out: https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2066465

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

If you're referring to the silver 825Ms. I think they look the best, but doubt they are the lightest. The 825s are quite a bit heavier that the 826s per specs when these cars came out. I've seen the silver ones in person at the Welt and they are definitely a painted silver like the black variants. Having said that, they look the best of all the wheels.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

The 825M wheels are almost certainly the lightest as they are the sole forged offering. Almost certainly 6061-T6 aluminum alloy.

Cast wheels require much thicker (and therefore heavier) wall thicknesses in order to achieve similar strength, albeit at the expense of added weight.

I am a mechanical design engineer who's specific a host of different aluminum alloys - both forged and cast. Forged 6061-T6 is just in a different league than castings.

Please do a search in the M3/4 boards. All the wheels for that chassis are forged and the 825s are the heaviest of the lot. If you refuse to search, I’ll find it for you.

Edit: Nvm, here you go. Only the cast winters are heavier.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1852984