[Carefree]

Originally Posted by wjones14

That's fair, he did ask about possibly using Auto Zone rotors in the original post. I wouldn't...

But, as far as safety, I personally would trust the OEM rotors, even for track days. That's just me though, I generally don't do anything special for track events other than brake fluid. OEM front rotors go for $331 each from Bimmerworld:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...108093710.html

Agreed. If rotors on our cars need replacing, I’ll have my shop use OEM parts and spend the saved dealer labor money on a bottle of Cristal.
YMMV

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by wjones14

That's fair, he did ask about possibly using Auto Zone rotors in the original post. I wouldn't...

But, as far as safety, I personally would trust the OEM rotors, even for track days. That's just me though, I generally don't do anything special for track events other than brake fluid. OEM front rotors go for $331 each from Bimmerworld:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...108093710.html

OEM M rotors are not skimping on safety (and far better than auto zone, napa, discount auto parts, etc.). For me, I will be upgrading when the time comes to a slightly superior product. With that said, I will be using Girodisc for a reason. They are very high quality, affordable (in the big picture) and have a excellent reputation. There are rotors that are far more expensive than Girodisc so I am not just picking the most expensive to say I have them.

[Montaver]

First 3 years of servicing are free, after that it’s consumables which really depends how much you drive it and your driving style.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Joker96

Yah, I just ignored it. I can afford the car and repairs fine.

I simply just don't like throwing money away or spending what I feel is unnecessary.

If you think quality brakes are unnecessary on a 500hp sports car, maybe walk.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Montaver

First 3 years of servicing are free, after that it’s consumables which really depends how much you drive it and your driving style.

If you do the bare minimum, possibly. I change my oil every ~3,500 miles. Dealership isn't paying for that.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

If you do the bare minimum, possibly. I change my oil every ~3,500 miles. Dealership isn't paying for that.

No harm in changing the oil that frequently, but depends how you drive it. 3,500 casual street miles, you don't need to change the oil. 3,500 track miles where you are putting a lot of heat into it, different story. I change my oil every 3 or so track events, so around that interval. For the street, once a year and under 7-8k miles is totally fine. These cars run very cool to begin with.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No harm in changing the oil that frequently, but depends how you drive it. 3,500 casual street miles, you don't need to change the oil. 3,500 track miles where you are putting a lot of heat into it, different story. I change my oil every 3 or so track events, so around that interval. For the street, once a year and under 7-8k miles is totally fine. These cars run very cool to begin with.

Disagree. I don’t track, I don’t race, I don’t abuse our M cars but I further believe that even the best oils are breaking down at your 7K mile or 1 year comment.

For that reason our cars are oil changed at 5K miles. It is the single most important maintenance an owner can do for a car.

IMO

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Disagree. I don’t track, I don’t race, I don’t abuse our M cars but I further believe that even the best oils are breaking down at your 7K mile or 1 year comment.

For that reason our cars are oil changed at 5K miles. It is the single most important maintenance an owner can do for a car.

IMO

i think it is insane that BMW has the factory interval set at 10k, and further that there are people waiting that long. just did my second oil change at 6200 (first at RiS) and my SA asked if something was wrong to prompt me to want an oil change... FWIW they pulled forward one of my covered changes so it was free, but the next one wont be.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No harm in changing the oil that frequently, but depends how you drive it. 3,500 casual street miles, you don't need to change the oil. 3,500 track miles where you are putting a lot of heat into it, different story. I change my oil every 3 or so track events, so around that interval. For the street, once a year and under 7-8k miles is totally fine. These cars run very cool to begin with.

Dont agree with the mileage. I am built and custom ecu tuned at 650 to 700+ whp, depending on the map I am running. Changing oil more frequently is very important.

[Montaver]

Tons of S58 blackstone reports out there with varying mileage intervals / use cases. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

As an aside, I do recommend a 2 year brake fluid flush/bleed service schedule.

Also included in standard covered maintenance plan. Just had it done on my wife's X3MC.

Re: rotors, OP stated "you can't put Autozone rotors on these cars". That being said, OEM rotors are more than sufficient for these cars when the originals need replacing.

[BroDoze]

Don't forget batteries, lol. I was refused by BMW TWICE when I had a battery fail in my 135i due to "low mileage". Despite me driving it every day with my short commute, I had to buy TWO new batteries out of pocket in those first 4 years of ownership.
"You don't drive this enough." "I drive it every freaking day as my daily." "Your mileage is too low." "GFY Y MFs!"

I was putting on about 5,000 miles/yr and they said in order for BMW to honor the battery warranty, they needed to see 6,000mi/yr minimum. Bastards.

LOL!!!

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Montaver

No harm in changing the oil that frequently, but depends how you drive it. For the street, once a year and under 7-8k miles is totally fine. These cars run very cool to begin with.

I've followed the manufacturer's maintenance schedule in every vehicle I've owned (40+) & have driven hundreds of thousands of miles. Have not had any engine-related issues to date. My expertise is not in engine building so I leave the maintenance schedule to them. Fwiw, I frequently send samples to Blackstone & all come back clean as a whistle.

[abrandonment]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Don't forget batteries, lol. I was refused by BMW TWICE when I had a battery fail in my 135i due to "low mileage". Despite me driving it every day with my short commute, I had to buy TWO new batteries out of pocket in those first 4 years of ownership.
"You don't drive this enough." "I drive it every freaking day as my daily." "Your mileage is too low." "GFY Y MFs!"

I was putting on about 5,000 miles/yr and they said in order for BMW to honor the battery warranty, they needed to see 6,000mi/yr minimum. Bastards.

LOL!!!

This will be me. I do 100-200 miles a month.

[Joker96]

I'm receiving $400-500 monthly insurance quotes for an M2 so I'll probably cancel my order. I'm not paying that for 1 vehicle when I have a clean history. The insurance is almost the cost of the monthly car payment.

Oh well.....I'll see what happens in a couple of months.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Joker96

I'm receiving $400-500 monthly insurance quotes for an M2 so I'll probably cancel my order. I'm not paying that for 1 vehicle when I have a clean history. The insurance is almost the cost of the monthly car payment.

Oh well.....I'll see what happens in a couple of months.

That doesn't sound right. I would shop carriers, or better yet, a different agent.

How much were you going to put down to get psyments near $400 - $500/month?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i agree with most of this but using the dealership is just punitive to your wallet. any good euro shop should be able to do an OEM materials brake swap at 50-75% of the labor costs without needless upselling as well...

Maybe. But maybe not.

Trouble is finding a good indy shop.

I have not had good luck in this.

One highly regarded alignment/suspension/tire shop changed hands. Went from highly regarded to "avoid".

An indy shop in the town where I lived was highly regarded, even the senior Porsche dealer techs praised the shop. Then not so much. The change was not the owner but the Porsche specialist tech at the indy shop who left the indy shop and went to work at the local Porsche dealer. Over the next few years as the senior techs moved on he rose to become shop foreman and was a great addition to the local Porsche dealer service department.

And not every shop will use factory or even OEM parts. I had one indy shop owner inform me of the oil he intended to use when servicing my Porsche. It was not an approved oil. I wanted an approved oil used. He told me he doesn't carry the approved oil. I said I'll supply the oil. He said no said he needed the profit margin from the oil he provides (was buying it in bulk -- but one can also buy the approved oil in bulk too) to help keep the doors open.

Needless to say I didn't have my car's oil service done there and never used that shop again.

The Porsche techs never tried to upsell me. In fact they talked me out of needless work. Talked me out of a needless suspension refresh, radiator hose refresh, and talked me out of new half shafts for when my Boxster's needed attention due to failed dust boots, and talked me out of a new clutch and a transmission replacement or rebuild. Actually it wasn't the techs that talked me out of this it was the SA. He looked up my car's service history and noticed the brake (and clutch) hydraulic fluid was past due for a flush/bleed. He recommended this first. I agreed. And the fluid service cured the clutch and transmission ills.

Have had my BMWs serviced -- 3 or 4 out of schedule oil/filter services, several in schedule CBS services, and two M2 tires fixed (punctures) and one rear tire on the 230xi replaced (puncture that was not repairable) and so far the servicing has been excellent.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Also included in standard covered maintenance plan. Just had it done on my wife's X3MC.

Re: rotors, OP stated "you can't put Autozone rotors on these cars". That being said, OEM rotors are more than sufficient for these cars when the originals need replacing.

Not quite yet used to this BMW free 3 year/30K mile servicing thing yet.

But yeah I believe brake fluid servicing is included. Just saying even if it ain't having it done every 2 years is not a waste of money.


As for "OEM" brake hardware, trouble is OEM is not factory. All it means is the same company that makes factory brake hardware (pads/rotors) also makes the OEM hardware. But the OEM hardware do not leave the OEM brake hardware factory with a factory part number.

Is that the only difference? Maybe. But maybe not. The factory rotors can really be of higher quality. And consistent quality.

I have had to have the brakes on a few of my cars done and due to miles I put on the cars more than once.

When I have the car in at the dealer for this factory parts are used. And when I have done the brakes I buy my hardware at the local dealer parts counter. (And after a time or two thereafter received a discount on parts. Not only brakes but on oil servicing parts (filter, o-rings, drain plug sealing ring), engine and cabin air filters, wiper blades, etc.)

No problems with the factory brake parts.

While not every person who goes down the discount/OEM brake hardware path experiences problems some have reported problems. And having to do deal with the problems.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've followed the manufacturer's maintenance schedule in every vehicle I've owned (40+) & have driven hundreds of thousands of miles. Have not had any engine-related issues to date. My expertise is not in engine building so I leave the maintenance schedule to them. Fwiw, I frequently send samples to Blackstone & all come back clean as a whistle.

would love to see a thread of blackstone analysis trends on the S58 at different oil change intervals. as we all know, 1 test means very little, you need at least a few to make a trend. I havent been able to track that down yet.

i feel that lately, more than ever, maintenance recommendations from factory have 2 specific goals- lower the cost of covered maintenance for the OEM, and ensure the car makes it through the initial lease period (BMW lease rates are only going up and make up 70%+ of BMW purchases) without costing the OEM additional money. after that, they dont really give a shit if your S58 makes it to 60k miles or 260k miles...

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

would love to see a thread of blackstone analysis trends on the S58 at different oil change intervals. as we all know, 1 test means very little, you need at least a few to make a trend. I havent been able to track that down yet.

i feel that lately, more than ever, maintenance recommendations from factory have 2 specific goals- lower the cost of covered maintenance for the OEM, and ensure the car makes it through the initial lease period (BMW lease rates are only going up and make up 70%+ of BMW purchases) without costing the OEM additional money. after that, they dont really give a shit if your S58 makes it to 60k miles or 260k miles...

This is a common thought process across many car brands, however, I don't believe it to be true. Most manufacturers have standards/benchmarks for how long their engines (and other drivetrain components) should last. For example the standard on Corvette engines is 250k mi I believe. I would imagine BMW's is similar. If they didn't care if the engine made it to 60k mi, and cars were becoming paperweights as soon as the warranty expired, people would stop buying them. To build a successful brand that's lasted 50 years (M cars), there has to be a high degree of reliability, imo.

Technology improvements in both engine building and oil has reduced the need to change more frequently. Some people still follow procedures from the past, which is completely up to them & their wallets.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Not quite yet used to this BMW free 3 year/30K mile servicing thing yet.

But yeah I believe brake fluid servicing is included. Just saying even if it ain't having it done every 2 years is not a waste of money.


As for "OEM" brake hardware, trouble is OEM is not factory. All it means is the same company that makes factory brake hardware (pads/rotors) also makes the OEM hardware. But the OEM hardware do not leave the OEM brake hardware factory with a factory part number.

Is that the only difference? Maybe. But maybe not. The factory rotors can really be of higher quality. And consistent quality.

I have had to have the brakes on a few of my cars done and due to miles I put on the cars more than once.

When I have the car in at the dealer for this factory parts are used. And when I have done the brakes I buy my hardware at the local dealer parts counter. (And after a time or two thereafter received a discount on parts. Not only brakes but on oil servicing parts (filter, o-rings, drain plug sealing ring), engine and cabin air filters, wiper blades, etc.)

No problems with the factory brake parts.

While not every person who goes down the discount/OEM brake hardware path experiences problems some have reported problems. And having to do deal with the problems.

When I say OEM, I'm referring to original equipment parts (e.g., factory). These can be purchased online at a discount & are the exact same parts you'd get from your dealership Parts counter.

Brakes are also one of the easiest components to change on a vehicle, so I don't know why people pay the high dealer labor costs or spend time searching for indy shops to do the work either.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

This is a common thought process across many car brands, however, I don't believe it to be true. Most manufacturers have standards/benchmarks for how long their engines (and other drivetrain components) should last. For example the standard on Corvette engines is 250k mi I believe. I would imagine BMW's is similar. If they didn't care if the engine made it to 60k mi, and cars were becoming paperweights as soon as the warranty expired, people would stop buying them. To build a successful brand that's lasted 50 years (M cars), there has to be a high degree of reliability, imo.

Technology improvements in both engine building and oil has reduced the need to change more frequently. Some people still follow procedures from the past, which is completely up to them & their wallets.

I totally see the point, but just going through the generations of mainstream Ms- you had subframe, vanos, and rod bearings on E46s, you had rod/main bearings (again) on E9X, crank hub and HPFP failure on F8X- theres been no shortage of major issues turning volume M cars into expensive problems or nice looking paperweights over the years. I'd argue that Corvettes have an expectation of reliable, relatively low running cost (for the level of performance provided) operation for many years- whereas most M cars are used and discarded by original owners (the only people who BMW cares about) after warranty expires or shortly thereafter.

Now I do hope, very much so, that the S58 is different (despite an early bearing shell recall, 2021), and I really only bought because this motor seems reliable and well sorted at this point in the production lifecycle, but given a spotty history with volume M powertrains I am still skeptical for the time being. All as a roundabout way to say, I see the point on trusting the engineers who built it, but the beancounters have overridden them many times in the past and will do so again in the future RE: covered maintenance.