[Good 4 2 reasons]

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I know the large majority of the members on here are still waiting for their cars that have ordered one, but I was wondering what everyone intended for their oil change intervals and what oil they would be using going forward.

It appears the -14FE+ and -17FE+ oil standards are a plague upon engine durability and are only being used to meet CAFE and other burdensome government standards for emissions or fuel efficiency.

I am thinking getting rid of this watered down 0W-20 as soon as I get past 1500 miles would be a good decision and switch to and -30 or -40 grade oil. It's my understanding that LL-01 is the grade to look for if I want to avoid the -20 grade oils? I was also planning on sticking to a 5k mile OCI and using something like Castrol Edge Euro for "meeting or having approval" with LL-01 and MB 229.5 standards.

I know this is an extremely contentious topic across the entire internet (I've read more pages on BITOG than I care to admit) and I was hoping everyone might have some feedback or suggestions.

Appreciate you all!

[Dinosoar]

I'd like to see some inputs here, myself. I am not liking 0-20 oil either, and ain't no way I'm letting oil get older than 5K miles either. I don't mind changing it every 3K or even 2K, but my big question is with what weight oil???

10-30?? I do plan to run it hard (not track, though) and I do let it warm up, but only about 5 minutes. I also have winter and hot summers to deal with.

I was thinking 5-30 in winter, 10-30 or 10-40 in summer.

[DSTR]

0-20 has been in use for years. BMW does not have a facility full of destroyed engines from any model using it.

If you are not using your car in track conditions frequently or in dirt/dusty environments all the time then you are wasting money and time.

The issue is over thought and overly confused on forums. Use the oil specification for BMW and drive and enjoy life.

[yanks1]

please follow manufacture instructions guys for Oil, may even void your warranty

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by DSTR

0-20 has been in use for years. BMW does not have a facility full of destroyed engines from any model using it.

If you are not using your car in track conditions frequently or in dirt/dusty environments all the time then you are wasting money and time.

The issue is over thought and overly confused on forums. Use the oil specification for BMW and drive and enjoy life.

When an automobile manufacturer has to only warranty an engine for 50k miles, its easy for an automobile manufacturer to make decisions that adversely affect the long term longevity of a powertrain. Direct injection without port injection to aid in cleaning the cylinder heads and valves comes to mind.

When companies offer "free maintenance" for the first 3 years or so, its to their benefit to stretch the oil change intervals as much as possible.

I just bought a BMW so obviously I am not against the brand, but if you plan on keeping a car longer than the length of the factory warranty, you should consider the long term repercussions of such a long OCI and the kind of oil BMW uses in order to meet government mandated fuel economy and emission requirements.

[jpcoop]

Originally Posted by yanks1

please follow manufacture instructions guys for Oil, may even void your warranty

Agree. Lots of armchair quarterbacking from non-experts on this stuff. Makes no sense to me; seems unlikely that any of the people debating around in the forums know more than the engineers that designed the thing.

[Rdurty2]

Best thing to do is to have a company like Blackstone analyze a sample of the used oil, say at 5k miles.

Don’t just guess and waste money that it needs to be changed, but that is clearly the thought process of 9/10 car people. Get straight up facts on the condition of the oil and make decisions based off of that.

For 99% of drivers 0-20 is perfectly fine. Now if you are constantly tracking the car that is a different story.

[crazylilthing02]

My Fiesta only calls for oil changes every 10k miles but I guarantee they need to be changed by 5k or performance will suffer. I have changed my own oil and seeing what my car does and what the oil looks like when I'm 1k over my normal 4K change tells me that unless you're driving very conservatively, 10k oil changes can't be good for your engine longevity. Testing is obviously ideal. But I'm curious how the 2.3L in the focus RS takes 5w50 and this engine takes 0w20? Interesting indeed. I don't doubt longevity of this engine otherwise bmw wouldn't put it in everything but I find it interesting none the less.

[conradb58]

I'm going to treat this car like my last B58 powered car. Ravenol 5W-40 and oil changes ever 4-5k.

[danallxt]

[QUOTE=

It appears the -14FE+ and -17FE+ oil standards are a plague upon engine durability and are only being used to meet CAFE and other burdensome government standards for emissions or fuel efficiency.

Appreciate you all![/QUOTE]

You got anything to back this up? ie anything other than the typical internet unfounded "factoids". Any studies you can reference? Not saying the oil is or is not a "plague" on durability but i get really tired of unsupported claims. If you can point to specific durability studies and comparisons with this oil, fine, please post that data. If its a plague it would have to be widespread.

[danallxt]

I'm sure there is the "oh no not another oil thread" reaction to this, but then in light of the 0-20 spec there is understandably concern. The move to 0-20 is a continuing effort to meet fuel mileage standards. Lighter oil = better fuel economy. There is one auto manufacturer specing 0-16 oil. I think you will see more and more move to the 0-20 spec with the coming tighter fuel mileage standards.

Myself I'm not sure i trust the 0-20 for performance driving, say sustained runs above 4000 rpms. For daily driving I'd have no problem with 0-20. My dilemma is the first 3 year period where the oil changes are provided by BMW. If i can't convince them to switch to say 5-30 then i may live with it and then switch when i change my own after the 3 year period (i normally change my own).

One oil tester has shown SOME 0-20 oil to have some very high resistance to thermal breakdown. There is an oil blog called 540 RAT where the guy has tested and compared hundreds of oil relative to thermal breakdown of the oil. He has separately tested a few 0-20 oils. He has some lengthy discussions of his methodology and a lot of self kudos but is one of the few places i have seen CURRENT oil testing done. At that blog you have to wade thru a lot but there is a section of ranking of 200 plus oils by thermal breakdown. There are some other interesting oil related articles he has authored that follows the ranking. There is somewhat of an index that can help wade thru the stuff. (Note there is no test of any BMW spec LL-14 or 17 oil that i noticed in the compilation of oil comparisons).

Me, personally i will have no problem with going outside of the BMW spec and using a high quality full syn 5-30 or 0-30 in the M240.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by danallxt

You got anything to back this up? ie anything other than the typical internet unfounded "factoids". Any studies you can reference? Not saying the oil is or is not a "plague" on durability but i get really tired of unsupported claims. If you can point to specific durability studies and comparisons with this oil, fine, please post that data. If its a plague it would have to be widespread.

You're right that the new LL17FE+ oil standards haven't really been around long enough for there to be widespread evidence of issues. Also the different driving styles of BMW drivers necessitates different needs in people for their engine oil.

I may have said it poorly, but for those of us who will be partaking in more spirited driving, are the lower HTHS values in LL17 oils something to be concerned about, re: engine wear? Lower HTHS values are a feature with these newer oils and the modifiers that are added to the oil to maintain the desired characteristics break down over time.

If LL17FE+ oil standard was created to increase fuel economy and lower emissions, I would rather sacrifice those for a different oil that decreases wear on my engine components.

As far as voiding my warranty, even if I perform my own oil changes, I can still show up to BMW and get my free oil changes, and just swap out the fluid after the oil service.

I am definitely not looking to fight anyone over oil.

I will retract my claim that BMW LL17FE+ oil is anything other A+++ best oil you've ever used in your life.

I was just wondering for those of you who do something other than BMW calls for, what are you doing?

Thanks!

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by jpcoop

Agree. Lots of armchair quarterbacking from non-experts on this stuff. Makes no sense to me; seems unlikely that any of the people debating around in the forums know more than the engineers that designed the thing.

not always, sometimes the engineers get it wrong:

The BMW M3/M5 models have had an ongoing problem with rod bearing failures for a number of years now. The M3’s S65 V-8 engine was derived from the M5’s S85 V-10 engine. They share the same basic architecture and aluminum construction. After going through all that, it turned out that the root cause of all those failures was that BMW had designed/built the engines with insufficient rod bearing clearance (barely large enough for 5W30 motor oil and WAY too tight for super thick oil), insufficient connecting rod side clearance, and they called for insanely thick 10W60 motor oil, which is WAY too thick for acceptable oil flow/lubrication/cooling. It was a perfect storm of doing multiple things completely wrong to actually “cause” rod bearing failures.

It was noted that along the way since all this began, that BMW has increased the rod bearing clearance a little, and now also allows the use of thinner oil (though many owners still seem to think they should use super thick oil for protection). But, there was no mention of them increasing the rod side clearance, which needs to be correct in order for oil to properly flow through and out of the rod bearings to provide the critical lubrication and cooling they need to survive.

Note: the above was taken from the 540 Rat oil blog.

[Lightngsvt]

I'm a little confused? You posted calling out the OP, and then 2 hours later post seeming to back him up. I haven't really educated myself in BMW oil/oil issues so I'm sure which side of the argument you come down in, or that "Joe average" should come down on? I personally will take my car to the dealer and let them do the oils changes while I have it. I may track it once a year since I have a better car for that, and it may see spirited driving, but its main purpose will be for an entertaining daily driver.

[danallxt]

reply to Lightngsvt:
I was perhaps a bit harsh in my initial response, actually agree most with all that the original poster has posted.
I was reacting to the fact that i have seen no evidence that the 0-20 oils are damaging to these engines and was reacting to the blanket "plague" statement.

But....having said that, i am not totally comfy with using the 0-20 oil for very sustained spirited driving.

So, if you are confused, so am i a bit, some 0-20 oils have tested quite well for thermal breakdown...but i'm not sure how much has been sacrificed for fuel economy. My quandary is that I'd like to take advantage of the "free" oil changes. Since i only average 5,000 mi a year, that means likely 5,000 mile changes. That is the most mileage i will put on any oil regardless of manufacture's recommendation.

I also usually change oil very quickly on a new engine...500 miles or so. I don't want any stray metal scarfs moving around for 1200 or even 5000 miles so i will likely personnally make an initial very early oil change to 5-30.
Then see if i can get the dealer to do the scheduled changes using 5-30 or 0-30.

[kumizi206]

I'm switching to Redline 5W30 every 5k miles.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/E...ilter-Kit.html