[Game]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

True. The X3 M rides like a Mars rover though. The M40 is the truly the preferred model if you required a comfortable ride in a BMW SAV.

It still does. http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/activity.php

The LCI X3M is actually pretty comfortable. Much improved.

[G42Enjoyer]

If you take a BMW and put 10 Dinan parts in it, they give you a Dinan badge. If you take a BMW and put 10 M parts on it they give you an M badge.

I feel like electronics, automatic, and awd dilute the brand more than the m-lite badges. Won't be long before there is an M self-driving car.

[as7920]

Never going back to an M Performance car.

M or nothing for me. Differences are more subtle than ever but there are differences and that's enough for me.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Moflow

To be fair, the E46 ZHP 330i had a pretty dedicated following.

I don't think there's any world in which these cars are all turbocharged and cars one level down don't match the cars above them in a straight line with a tune. That's just the nature of turbocharged cars.

Also I'd add.. yes, the E46 ZHP had a great following and was a great car but it also only had 235 HP and had no LSD. The E46 M3 has 343 HP in Europe and a full blown LSD... you couldn't easily modify one to be the other.

This is oddly enough close to the difference between current HP of an M340i and and M3 Comp... even less if comparing to a base M3. Both come with LSDs and same trannies... I dont' know, just seems weird to me. I'd expect the full blown M car to be a bit more special like they used to be.

Even if you compare the prior gen M240 to M2 Comp... at least you got a different tranny

[Bumpinjeep]

Here's my theory on the subject.
Back in the day 80s, 90s, early 2000s, people simply had less buying power. A BMW was a BMW, to the average person a 325i had a similar prestige/presence as a M3 because of the badge on the hood rather than what's underneath it. It was a status symbol, "oh hey, Bob from accounting must be doing real well for himself, probably making $40K a year, he has a BMW." And of course BMW knew this.
With the sharp increase in wages, Bob from accounting is making $120K a year now. Steve, Frank, Wendy, and Tobi (yes, Tobi with an 'i' and he sometimes puts a heart over the 'i.'), all now drive BMWs. Maybe they still want the prestige/presence but simply don't care for the performance. This is now the target audience of BMW and they sure as shit will cater to it. So here are your "m-lite" cars. They look like the real thing, some even sound like the real thing, so why not spend the money that BMW knows you have?
Again, Audi and Mercedes AMG are all doing it.

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

With the sharp increase in wages

lol what country are you from

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...160612375.html

https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-ar...ing-in-america

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbre...h=6ec559307533

[atl_1M]

Even the new minis are getting quad pipes lol

[blueray_ms]

For me there is a night and day difference between mlites and true M cars. I have gone from an e92 M3 to the 335i, from a f82 ZCP to a 440i and more recently an f82 ZCP to a g20 m340i.

The True M cars feel like a totally different manufacturer and I have always regretted the downgrade which were all due to changes in circumstance.

I’m looking for a sports car to get back the engagement and am struggling to know what to get. Definitely must be manual as struggle to be engaged with dct and autos. Not yet convinced a bloated g87 will fit but waiting to try it out.

[bromudez]

Originally Posted by as7920

Never going back to an M Performance car.

M or nothing for me. Differences are more subtle than ever but there are differences and that's enough for me.

For me, it isn't just the subtle (or even substantial) differences in the cars

There was also this nagging sense that I was settling or that the purchase was a compromise and I couldn't shake that feeling. I also kept telling myself stuff like "It's a daily, I don't need the M2" or "I probably won't track much so it's all good". Meanwhile I was getting a sore neck turning my head to look at an M2s across the road or zipping past me. I'm sure a lot of people don't relate to that experience, but that was certainly mine.

Lesson for me - If you're looking for looks & performance AND if the full M is within budget, you gotta go for it. Finally going for the M2 ended all that repressed car lust LOL

[Quadruple VANOS]

Preferring a proper M car is perfectly fine and perhaps even expected. Wishing the models below didn't perform so well is an indicator of insecurity.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Recent Instagram post by BMW's M division….

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Preferring a proper M car is perfectly fine and perhaps even expected. Wishing the models below didn't perform so well is an indicator of insecurity.

Or perhaps just realizing the true M is no longer worth it...

[khearon23]

Who coined the term "M-Lite" again? I haven't been in the circle too long, but I have heard of M-Sport in the past.

My money says all of the M-cars with single number designators will likely be out of production in a few years and the M division will cease to exist.

Like the banner says…there are levels of M.

I actually prefer Audi's naming convention over BMWs as it avoids the ego damage for some owners who have to defend their purchases. S and RS make it so easy to get along. At least it's not GTS, GT3 or GT4 or some other madness.

I say….just get the car you want. Ignore the badges on the outside and just drive.

As one wise forum member eluded to, it may be pretty hard to justify for some. The sibling rivalry is very real. But…at the end of the day, BMW has a goal which is to sell every vehicle they produce.

[Tag]

Featured on BMW M's IG alongside the 1M and M2. Check out the hashtags for the M240ix.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Doesn't BMW have the final word as to what a M vehicle is? How would any third party have more say on the matter than the manufacturer themselves?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Doesn't BMW have the final word as to what a M vehicle is? How would any third party have more say on the matter than the manufacturer themselves?

The problem is they keep moving the goalposts.

[KmtbS]

The goal post will always be place directly in front of the money. It's a business that wants to make money

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Tag

The problem is they keep moving the goalposts.

If the goalposts move; and someone continues to kick at the old location, who's the dummy?

TBH I also still use the traditional definition of what an M car is, but I don't take any firm stance on the issue because I realize BMW has widened the definition. In the end BMW has the final say and my opinion on the wrong side of their definition.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

If the goalposts move; and someone continues to kick at the old location, who's the dummy?

TBH I also still use the traditional definition of what an M car is, but I don't take any firm stance on the issue because I realize BMW has widened the definition. In the end BMW has the final say and my opinion on the wrong side of their definition.

The "dummy" is the one that accepts goalposts that are constantly moving.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Tag

The "dummy" is the one that accepts goalposts that are constantly moving.

Incorrect. Dummies stubbornly adhere to their beliefs even after they're proven incorrect.
Tip: aim at the target or you're always going to miss.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Incorrect. Dummies stubbornly adhere to their beliefs even after they're proven incorrect.
Tip: aim at the target or you're always going to miss.

So just like you're sticking to your point of view. Got it.

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by Tag

The "dummy" is the one that accepts goalposts that are constantly moving.

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Incorrect. Dummies stubbornly adhere to their beliefs even after they're proven incorrect.
Tip: aim at the target or you're always going to miss.

Originally Posted by Tag

So just like you're sticking to your point of view. Got it.

Will y’all just kiss already?