[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

The Bimmer wiz was very clear that G87 M2 is the last 6MT manual because:
1) they are slower
2) they have worse fuel economy
He did add that the 6MT with the G8x is (pretty much) "an afterthought" for those that still want to stick to it.
Don't think the CS will come with the 6MT which means...no interest to me...

This is the hardest part when spec'ing a G87... I really wanted a "last of it's kind car" ie, a car that handles, a car with a bunch of horsepower, and a car with a manual transmission. The Camaro is gone (and was ugly and a Chevy) The Corvette is a dual clutch and $85k once you start to spec it out, the only Mustang worth a damn is the Dark Horse and is $70k spec'd right (no way with Ford's current build quality) The Cayman is gone and is a $90k plus car in the US anyway...

A M2 with a 6MT is "THE" car, but I haven't heard one person even remotely approve of the manual in the car. Pretty frustrating given I have to throw down the cash on a gamble and hope I picked right once its shows up and I have to do paperwork

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

This is the hardest part when spec'ing a G87... I really wanted a "last of it's kind car" ie, a car that handles, a car with a bunch of horsepower, and a car with a manual transmission. The Camaro is gone (and was ugly and a Chevy) The Corvette is a dual clutch and $85k once you start to spec it out, the only Mustang worth a damn is the Dark Horse and is $70k spec'd right (no way with Ford's current build quality) The Cayman is gone and is a $90k plus car in the US anyway...

A M2 with a 6MT is "THE" car, but I haven't heard one person even remotely approve of the manual in the car. Pretty frustrating given I have to throw down the cash on a gamble and hope I picked right once its shows up and I have to do paperwork

If you haven't heard one person approve of the manual in the M2, you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

It's universally approved as a good manual.
The only criticism there was, wasn't even of the transmission itself, but the gearing ratio (Throttle House, saying it was dead under 3k RPM).

So, maybe you meant the opposite?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

This makes sense.
They’ve been calling the “M-Lite” M Automobiles for years now.
It’s confusing to most people when people with M240i call their cars “M2”, or have their cars be called that by others.
Now the Homo Ms can be called “Competition” to create further differentiation.
If it’s “M-something” it’s what used to be called M-lite.
If it’s competition, CS, or CSL, it’s a Homo M.

I assume you mean homogulation and not the other thing. This is the internet, unfortunately, so one must clarify.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

If you haven't heard one person approve of the manual in the M2, you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

Yes. Some of us approve of it, myself included. Even some reviewers like it, but not all.

Originally Posted by M2siast

It's universally approved as a good manual.
The only criticism there was, wasn't even of the transmission itself, but the gearing ratio (Throttle House, saying it was dead under 3k RPM).

Well no. On both counts. It's far from universally loved because it has long throws and slightly rubber feel. Just not universally hated either. (And guess what, if you want short throws, there are kits for that, so it's easily fixed.)

And not only was TH wrong, but it had nothing to do do with gearing. Not even a little. It had to do with with boost threshold. Not turbo lag, not gearing.

But really, the problem with TH is that they refused to be in proper gear, and poor drivers are indeed a fatal flaw in all manual transmissions.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I assume you mean homogulation and not the other thing. This is the internet, unfortunately, so one must clarify.

I meant homo as homogenized.
I thought BMW fully embraced the milk-analogy in their lineup by calling the M cars "full-fat", and the other ones "M-lite".

Homo milk is "whole milk" here in Canada.

Maybe BMW is doing this:

M240i (M-Lite)
M2 (Homo)
M2 CS (10%, Cream)
M2 CSL (35%, Heavy Cream)

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Yes. Some of us approve of it, myself included. Even some reviewers like it, but not all.



Well no. On both counts. It's far from universally loved because it has long throws and slightly rubber feel. Just not universally hated either. (And guess what, if you want short throws, there are kits for that, so it's easily fixed.)

And not only was TH wrong, but it had nothing to do do with gearing. Not even a little. It had to do with with boost threshold. Not turbo lag, not gearing.

But really, the problem with TH is that they refused to be in proper gear, and poor drivers are indeed a fatal flaw in all manual transmissions.

Maybe I missed it. I thought all approved the manual.

Who reproved it?

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

I’d imagine it will start just under $100K and have the carbon buckets standard. Power will probably match the M3/4 Comp. The F87 CS started at $83.5K. People will buy this car, just like they did with the F87.

I don’t think a 6MT will be offered. I’ll hold any comments on aesthetics until I see a more finished product.

The M3 CS starts at $148k.
I think I’m being generous with a starting price of $120 for the M2 CS… but BMW may surprise us with a bargain under 120. Highly doubt it. Very niche. And with an automatic, I personally have yet another reason to not look forward to it. But it’ll look aggressive and be special, that’s for sure. Lucky those that want/can get it.

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by M2siast

If you haven't heard one person approve of the manual in the M2, you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

It's universally approved as a good manual.
The only criticism there was, wasn't even of the transmission itself, but the gearing ratio (Throttle House, saying it was dead under 3k RPM).

So, maybe you meant the opposite?

Well, you’re right. I have based my “nobody has said anything positive about the manual” on YouTube alone. Pretty dumb on my part to be honest as YouTube becomes an echo chamber to get clicks and for shock value. The more I have read here, the more I’m sure I want a manual.

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

In terms of reviewer hate aesthetically, I think most people misunderstand this M2 because it’s a “M2” to me, this car is a throwback to the aesthetic traits of a e30 M3… but you can’t call it an M3, because there is already an M3 🤣. This car isn’t trying to be the beautiful lines of the last M2, it’s more of a tribute to the square strong lines of the M car of the 1980s and 1990s

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

Well, you’re right. I have based my “nobody has said anything positive about the manual” on YouTube alone. Pretty dumb on my part to be honest as YouTube becomes an echo chamber to get clicks and for shock value. The more I have read here, the more I’m sure I want a manual.

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

Where do I sign?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I meant homo as homogenized.
I thought BMW fully embraced the milk-analogy in their lineup by calling the M cars "full-fat", and the other ones "M-lite".

Homo milk is "whole milk" here in Canada.

Ah, that is unfortunate overlap in slang, then.

BMW has very precise terms for their flavors of M, it's all marketing speak, but if I recall it's:

"M" (just "M" or "motorsport") is the top tier; cosmetics (badging, trim), track tuned engine, suspension, the works. ex: the M2.

"M Performance" is cosmetics plus sometimes a tuned engine, but not a M engine ("S" model), nor stuff like full slip e-diff. ex: the M240i.

"M Sport" is just cosmetics, no performance upgrades. Aka, a 2 Series with M trim package.

That's how I think it works. There's an image floating around the forum that describes it in more detail.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

Meh. IMO, The G87 stomps all over the F87's face in every way except looks. The suspension, handling, steering, braking, engine, seat position, interior quality, tech, it's all greatly improved. If we are talking base models, it's just not close.

The things that F87 are "good at" are being hard to control and being a more stripped down old-fashioned experience. But I don't value those things, YMMV. I don't consider poor handling to be a "feature." Even if I did I'd still buy the better car and then just put crappy tires on it when I wanted to hoon around.

Now if we are comparing to the F87C or F87CS, there's more to talk about. I'd still take a base G87 over an F87C, but I can understand why others would choose the F87C. The F87CS probably outperforms the G87, but for the price difference it damn well should.

[Tag]

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by Tag

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

Great shot of the duck tail. Still looks like sliding calipers in the rear.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by Tag

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

Would anyone trade their F87 M2 CS DCT for this?

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Would anyone trade their F87 M2 CS DCT for this?

I would imagine a lot of people would when the car comes out. We wont really know until we get something other than camo pics of test mules. Could be 500 hp with a manual transmission, even crazier seats, Cup 2R tires, etc. Or could be a tune, tires, and cosmetics. At this point, it's all speculation.

[xiven]

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

[frostyrwd]

Originally Posted by xiven

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

As others have stated the CS model is still a ways away. They don’t have to be testing the final product here for it to still be the CS test mule.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

This is the hardest part when spec'ing a G87... I really wanted a "last of it's kind car" ie, a car that handles, a car with a bunch of horsepower, and a car with a manual transmission.

A M2 with a 6MT is "THE" car, but I haven't heard one person even remotely approve of the manual in the car. Pretty frustrating given I have to throw down the cash on a gamble and hope I picked right once its shows up and I have to do paperwork

The ownership reviews on the 6MT are pretty good. I've had 8 M cars since 1998 with 5MTs or 6MTs. This one is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but much better than I expected. I may spend a few hundred bucks and put a Rogue or AutoSolutions SSK in at some point, but now that I have the car, that's not nearly as important as I thought it was going to be.

I like the manual!

[Tag]

Originally Posted by xiven

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

They wouldn't put a ducktail spoiler nor a CF splitter if it were a Comp model.

[Tag]

Another pic from the BMW M Testcenter at Nürburgring.

Only changes I see is the trunk lid with integrated ducktail spoiler and what appears to be the M Performance CF diffuser.

[k-m2-j442]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

To be fair, if I recall correctly, Thomas did say the G87 was objectively better in nearly every way (except maybe steering feel?) than the F87, he would just prefer the F87, which is fine because he owns one.

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by Kmj442

To be fair, if I recall correctly, Thomas did say the G87 was objectively better in nearly every way (except maybe steering feel?) than the F87, he would just prefer the F87, which is fine because he owns one.

When you listen to the actual substance of what he was saying I completely agree, it was a generally favorable review.

The disservice done was that is was a favorable review said in a way that made it sound as if it was inferior in someway - kinda like delivering a solid compliment while frowning at someone.

I should add, I don’t have a dog in the fight per we as I haven’t owned either of the cars or any BMW to this point. I was a fan of the F87 and I’m a fan of the G87 and considering purchasing one