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      07-24-2021, 02:26 AM   #199
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      07-24-2021, 02:48 AM   #200
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      07-24-2021, 03:51 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
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You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
This. People underestimate the allure of having the new toy. The amount of people that bought the new M3 for all reasons BUT the design is outstanding.

Enthusiasts will dislike it. People looking to get into another new car or new to the brand will say they like it and existing f87 owners who truly don't like the design so far will say they'll keep their cars.

It's all subjective. For me, whether it was a comp or CS, I'm glad I have my f87 and I had an opportunity and thought about getting a g80 when my f80 M3 lease was up.

So on one hand you utter it's all subjective, which is an explicit statement about the variances between people's tastes, feelings, perspectives, etc….


….yet, prior to that, you make finite statements such as, "enthusiasts won't like it"…….and if we use ONLY this forum as a reference, plenty of enthusiasts like the G8X and have purchased them. What gives you the authority to label who is and who isn't an enthusiast?!?
This. Is very true!
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      07-24-2021, 06:21 AM   #202
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And then the strong sales.
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
Thank you for that thoroughly confusing response.

I have no opinion on this design, it's a test mule. I'm just suggesting the car will sell well.

You're suggesting I like a broadly hated design, ie, the g80? If that's your statement, I would say that the term "broadly hated" is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of the public loves the G80 (driving around in one is an insane experience, people have universally positive responses in person), even if many long time BMW enthusiasts/consumers don't care for the front fascia, weight gain, etc.

If I am making an incorrect assumption about your inference please correct me.
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      07-24-2021, 06:32 AM   #203
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And nothing has changed. I still don't know what those fascias are for exactly. They do have G87 styling influence, but that's about it.
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Originally Posted by karlkir5 View Post
Exactly!
The leaked photos show where the design comes from - straight from China from some sketchy small garage.
What the hell BMW?
Hold your horses, karlkir5: let's distinguish 'original prototype design' from 'counterfeit prototype of a stolen/leaked original prototype design'.

For example: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...ng-143574.html

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      07-24-2021, 06:49 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by chicagofan00 View Post
Once again the leaks on here are proven to be correct.

This is going the same way as the G8x release. First the leaks, the denials that it can't be true, and then everything all starts to become reality.
And then the strong sales.
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Originally Posted by e92ben View Post
Time to fire Markus Flasch. He's gone to far with approving all this shit.
Craziest part to me honestly.

Sometimes these new designs grow on me but not lately.

The new looks of the 3 / 4 series really don't say BMW
Wahhhh. Cry about it boomer. Plenty of other brands out there that would love to take your money.
Boomer? I'm 25 😂
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      07-24-2021, 07:19 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
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Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
And then the strong sales.
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
Thank you for that thoroughly confusing response.

I have no opinion on this design, it's a test mule. I'm just suggesting the car will sell well.

You're suggesting I like a broadly hated design, ie, the g80? If that's your statement, I would say that the term "broadly hated" is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of the public loves the G80 (driving around in one is an insane experience, people have universally positive responses in person), even if many long time BMW enthusiasts/consumers don't care for the front fascia, weight gain, etc.

If I am making an incorrect assumption about your inference please correct me.
The car is ugly dude get over it. I love how the people who bought the new M3/M4 are trying so hard to defend it. You bought it for the performance point blank period. And I guarantee if bmw had a package for a better looking grill everyone who bought it would have paid the price. So stop arguing.
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      07-24-2021, 08:59 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
This. People underestimate the allure of having the new toy. The amount of people that bought the new M3 for all reasons BUT the design is outstanding. Later, they slowly start convincing themselves “it’s not that bad” “it’s growing on me”. Pretty sure this new m2 will follow suit with what’s happened with the M3.

Enthusiasts will dislike it. People looking to get into another new car or new to the brand will say they like it and existing f87 owners who truly don’t like the design so far will say they’ll keep their cars.

It’s all subjective. For me, whether it was a comp or CS, I’m glad I have my f87 and I had an opportunity and thought about getting a g80 when my f80 M3 lease was up.

Ultimately, I can’t accept this new bmw design language- then there’s the whole made out of Mexico thing that is hard to accept for an M car.
The G87 will be sized between an E46 and E92, 450 HP, RWD, and will likely be the last M car to be offered with a 6MT.

A lot of enthusiasts will love it.
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      07-24-2021, 09:24 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJaw View Post
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
And then the strong sales.
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
Thank you for that thoroughly confusing response.

I have no opinion on this design, it's a test mule. I'm just suggesting the car will sell well.

You're suggesting I like a broadly hated design, ie, the g80? If that's your statement, I would say that the term "broadly hated" is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of the public loves the G80 (driving around in one is an insane experience, people have universally positive responses in person), even if many long time BMW enthusiasts/consumers don't care for the front fascia, weight gain, etc.

If I am making an incorrect assumption about your inference please correct me.
The car is ugly dude get over it. I love how the people who bought the new M3/M4 are trying so hard to defend it. You bought it for the performance point blank period. And I guarantee if bmw had a package for a better looking grill everyone who bought it would have paid the price. So stop arguing.
Stay off the internet boomer, you look like a damn fool 👍
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      07-24-2021, 10:01 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJaw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
And then the strong sales.
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
Thank you for that thoroughly confusing response.

I have no opinion on this design, it's a test mule. I'm just suggesting the car will sell well.

You're suggesting I like a broadly hated design, ie, the g80? If that's your statement, I would say that the term "broadly hated" is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of the public loves the G80 (driving around in one is an insane experience, people have universally positive responses in person), even if many long time BMW enthusiasts/consumers don't care for the front fascia, weight gain, etc.

If I am making an incorrect assumption about your inference please correct me.
The car is ugly dude get over it. I love how the people who bought the new M3/M4 are trying so hard to defend it. You bought it for the performance point blank period. And I guarantee if bmw had a package for a better looking grill everyone who bought it would have paid the price. So stop arguing.
Wow. I love how you refuse to believe anything people tell you and instead tell those people what their true feelings are. Get over yourself and stop being so rude and stubborn.

Plenty of people love the new G80 design. I like it but was uncertain when I first saw the early skewed leaks. I only liked it more as more leaks came out. I really loved it after seeing one in person. I will likely upgrade my G20 in a few years, which will be BMW #4 for me.

With that said, I really dislike the grill on the base 4 series, it just doesn't flow like the m3/m4 grilles do.
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      07-24-2021, 10:14 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by chicagofan00 View Post
They say the direction BMW is heading. They are looking to buck the trend of traditional and going for something entirely different. Only way to know if it truly works is to see how sales are over the next couple of years.

I don't like everything they've done as of late and I especially didn't like the G8x design at first but as more photos and videos rolled out I ended up loving it and ordering one.
This type of comparison is always tricky. Probably the best way is to compare the change (delta) in sales of BMW compared to its competitors. Comparing to earlier years is not an accurate method.
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      07-24-2021, 10:37 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
The G87 will be sized between an E46 and E92, 450 HP, RWD, and will likely be the last M car to be offered with a 6MT.

A lot of enthusiasts will love it.
Exactly.

I also still have faith this car can look great. People are blowing up because of leaks? Come on now...let's at least see the finished product.
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      07-24-2021, 10:47 AM   #211
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You'd be wrong.
Have any numbers to back that up?
I'm using the same hyperbole and anecdotal evidence the detractors are using. The detractors say, "ZOMG! These cars are just sitting on dealership lots. Nobody is buying them."

My local dealerships all throughout California can't even keep them in stock and are selling them above sticker all day long. People on the forums have issues obtaining allocations, and when somebody claims dealership ABC has X amount of cars on the lot (…usually basing that on internet sites that also tally in sold cars), I call and the dealership actually has none…..or maybe one.

So which is it? Are they selling or aren't they?!?!

The detractors will argue, "Well it's a chip shortage. Every car is selling with/without a mark-up. That doesn't mean the car is any good." I would challenge them to show me a large sample size of people who can just fuck off $80k+ on a car they don't like……and pay above sticker for it on top of that. It's just ridiculous. A person doesn't have to buy a G8X. They could spend that money elsewhere. They buy it because they like it.
I walked into the Porsche dealership and they only had a single sports car on the lot, boxter 4 cylinder in black with a MT. Everything fun is sold out everywhere. There is very little supply. It's not hard for demand to be higher than the supply when they only build a handful of cars.

Let's wait and see what happens when more than a trickle of sports cars are coming out of Germany. I mean new cars are so rare that used cars are just as expensive as new cars!!!
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      07-24-2021, 10:52 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan View Post
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
And then the strong sales.
You say that as if strong sales corelate to anything design/beauty of the car itself. This may be true years ago, no longer with today's brand buyers.
It can look absolutely horrid yet brand zealots will still fork over cash.

Stop equating strong sales to anything of substance. If you like a broadly hated design just say it. No need to use a meaningless argument to support it.
Thank you for that thoroughly confusing response.

I have no opinion on this design, it's a test mule. I'm just suggesting the car will sell well.

You're suggesting I like a broadly hated design, ie, the g80? If that's your statement, I would say that the term "broadly hated" is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of the public loves the G80 (driving around in one is an insane experience, people have universally positive responses in person), even if many long time BMW enthusiasts/consumers don't care for the front fascia, weight gain, etc.

If I am making an incorrect assumption about your inference please correct me.
You can't use in person response to determine if people generally like the look of a car. No one has ever walked up to me and told me my car was ugly. I've never walked up to anyone and told them their car is ugly. Yet I've seen countless ugly cars with owners standing next to them. It would be so rude to walk over and tell them how terribly ugly their car is.
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      07-24-2021, 11:14 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
The G87 will be sized between an E46 and E92, 450 HP, RWD, and will likely be the last M car to be offered with a 6MT.

A lot of enthusiasts will love it.
Exactly.

I also still have faith this car can look great. People are blowing up because of leaks? Come on now...let's at least see the finished product.
Same, I think the car will be awesome. Individual colors too - I'll take mine in Miami Blue.

Plus, a BMW insider/employee has commented on this thread that the leaked bumper is not the real bumper.
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      07-24-2021, 11:21 AM   #214
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I like this one
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      07-24-2021, 11:40 AM   #215
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Wow. I love how you refuse to believe anything people tell you and instead tell those people what their true feelings are. Get over yourself and stop being so rude and stubborn.

Plenty of people love the new G80 design. I like it but was uncertain when I first saw the early skewed leaks. I only liked it more as more leaks came out. I really loved it after seeing one in person. I will likely upgrade my G20 in a few years, which will be BMW #4 for me.

With that said, I really dislike the grill on the base 4 series, it just doesn't flow like the m3/m4 grilles do.
"Plenty of people" are also signing up for therapy more than ever too!
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      07-24-2021, 11:42 AM   #216
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I keep hearing people saying "that's it for me, I am switching to Porsche". Really? Grille is what did it for you? Bumper was the deciding factor? Have you ever driven a 911? I mean 911, not turbo, not turbo S, not RS, GT.... Porsche is on a different level whatsoever. If you think the difference between Porsche and BMW is the grille you have no clue what you are talking about.
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      07-24-2021, 11:51 AM   #217
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So normalish sized grilles, but horizontal slots. The mockup of the front bumper looks like at some point BMW designers thought of slapping the lung grilles, realized there will be no space left to put the rest of car there, and kept the ugly nostril indent.
Glad I went with one of the last F87's.
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      07-24-2021, 11:59 AM   #218
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You'd be wrong.
I don’t know anything about the sales numbers, but I haven’t seen a new 4er on the road here in DFW.
Agreed

I just saw one the other day and that was the first time
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      07-24-2021, 12:17 PM   #219
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I like this one
That would be nice for the M2 or 240i, but unfortunately it's most like the 230i. The one I am least likely to buy. That may change though once I seen them in person. If the 240i still looks disjointed and out of proportion in person the 230i could rise up.
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      07-24-2021, 12:27 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by J-RO View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You'd be wrong.
Have any numbers to back that up?
I'm using the same hyperbole and anecdotal evidence the detractors are using. The detractors say, "ZOMG! These cars are just sitting on dealership lots. Nobody is buying them."

My local dealerships all throughout California can't even keep them in stock and are selling them above sticker all day long. People on the forums have issues obtaining allocations, and when somebody claims dealership ABC has X amount of cars on the lot (…usually basing that on internet sites that also tally in sold cars), I call and the dealership actually has none…..or maybe one.

So which is it? Are they selling or aren't they?!?!

The detractors will argue, "Well it's a chip shortage. Every car is selling with/without a mark-up. That doesn't mean the car is any good." I would challenge them to show me a large sample size of people who can just fuck off $80k+ on a car they don't like……and pay above sticker for it on top of that. It's just ridiculous. A person doesn't have to buy a G8X. They could spend that money elsewhere. They buy it because they like it.
I walked into the Porsche dealership and they only had a single sports car on the lot, boxter 4 cylinder in black with a MT. Everything fun is sold out everywhere. There is very little supply. It's not hard for demand to be higher than the supply when they only build a handful of cars.

Let's wait and see what happens when more than a trickle of sports cars are coming out of Germany. I mean new cars are so rare that used cars are just as expensive as new cars!!!
That's besides the point. People still aren't generally going to piss away money on something they don't like. You're not going to buy food, date someone, etc. that you don't enjoy.
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