**UPDATE #3 *Vanos Actuator***'22 230i shuddering at stop lights. Is this normal?***

old_man_feet · 01-08-2023, 02:29 PM

'22 230i ~12.5k miles over ~10 months.

After driving for any amount of time w/ Start/Stop turned off and the car is warmed up I experience shuddering at stop lights. It doesn't matter what drive mode I have been driving in. I drive normal mode on city streets and country roads and ECO 90% of the time on the highway commute.

It feels exactly like the car wants to shut off for the Stop/Start feature but it keeps running. It will do this once or twice during a stop light cycle.

I mentioned this to the SA while making my appointment for my next oil change next week. He said it was normal. "It want's to shut off but you disabled that so it just keeps running. It's normal."

That sounds like BS to me. It's really bad, extremely noticeable and just doesn't seem right to me.

I don't remember it doing that when I got the car in April and it seems like it's getting worse during the past couple of months. Could this just be a winter gas thing? Always 91 or 93 octane from Marathon or Shell.

Thanks

**UPDATE**
Monday
Oil Change

They were able to duplicate the issue.
I was asked about what fuel I was using. (see above)
"the shop foreman wants to keep it to let it go to sleep and recheck it tomorrow."

Tuesday

Replaced Spark Plugs
Looking into mis-fire

Wednesday

"Odd Situation"
Looking into new coils
"How long has this been happening?"
Since August/Sept
I mentioned you guys here on g42_BP mentioning the last Software push could have caused it.
"Appreciate it, we are going to do an update to eliminate that as a possibility tomorrow."
Took fuel samples, looks good. May drain tank tomorrow.

That's all for now.

I hope I'm not putting you on blast by putting this out. You have been outstanding and I couldn't have asked for better service. You guys are doing a great job. Thank you for keeping me informed.

**** Update Two ****
Car has been at the dealer since Tuesday. Loaner is a 430i w/ M package so that's very nice. A little to big for me though.

So here is all I have for now from my SA.

"Good afternoon Old_Man_Feet, I have our shop foremen working on this, he has been in communications with BMW technical team, they have another case just like this one, we were looking for a like vehicle to check against yours however we have no 230's here, this engine is very different than say a 228, we are being told that this is a normal occurrence for that vehicle type, we are still checking & communicating."

I'll update when I get it back, hopefully this week.

redcars · 01-08-2023, 06:55 PM

Is it the AC clutch engaging? It can be so quiet and smooth that it feels the engine shut off until the AC kicks in.

Cwatt79 · 01-09-2023, 07:40 AM

Over 2,000 miles on my 230i and I haven't noticed anything like this, so I'd confirm your hunch that it isn't normal.

e36uulm · 01-10-2023, 11:52 AM

I have a 2022 230i with about 10k on it as well and I know exactly what you are talking about. It doesn’t happen every day and it doesn’t matter if the air conditioning is on or not. With stop start disabled you’ll pull up to a stop and you’ll feel a little shutter in the engine, like the car is trying to stall or misfire. I had it looked at one time but there were no codes and so the mechanics at my dealership couldn’t find anything. I only ever put namebrand 93 octane in the car so I doubt it’s the gas. I think it’s just part of the car’s personality…

Also, don’t talk to the service writer they don’t know what they’re doing. Get the head mechanic to go for a ride in the car with you. That’s what I did.

polakai · 01-10-2023, 02:27 PM

I drive '22 230i since April and have the same issue that started as soon as cold weather came to NY.

Based on my research B48 engine has this issue across other models (3 and 4 series G generation), and it usually happens for everybody in cold weather conditions only (which is the same for me because it started in December).
I'll look for all the forum topics I read to share them here. But basically, people are saying that it's due to B48 specific (being 4-cyl) + lack of extra "amortization" details that are installed on higher/more expansive models to mitigate these vibrations. So it's not a mechanical problem, apparently.

P.S. excuse my English, def not the best tech vocabulary, and grammar is just bad

Cwatt79 · 01-10-2023, 03:02 PM

This is interesting. I've never noticed this, but I leave stop/start enabled. I'm curious to see if I would notice it with stop/start disabled, but I don't necessarily want to go looking for problems

nannertime · 01-10-2023, 03:06 PM

are you able to record it and upload a video of it?

TJZ67201 · 01-10-2023, 03:33 PM

I noticed that my M240i kinda wants to lurch when coming to a stop with Start/Stop disabled. It makes it a bit difficult to come to a very smooth stop, however, I guess I learned to stop differently where it’s not so much a problem for me.

I get that I have a different engine, but I believe we have the same ZF trans? To me, it seems like an issue with the torque converter engagement. I noticed the car wants to lurch forward when letting up on the brake. Which makes it hard to inch up forward when parking in my garage. Maybe it’s a related issue?

polakai · 01-10-2023, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nannertime

are you able to record it and upload a video of it?

I'll try but I don't think a video would be helpful. You can barely hear it and def can't see it. In my experience, I mostly recognize it by the vibration that is coming through the seat. But it doesn't impact the revs.

mburg · 01-10-2023, 04:10 PM

I have also been experiencing this. Haven't brought it in or called the dealership. Interesting to realize this is a relatively new 'thing' - since the weather turned cold. That being said, it didn't happen last winter (I took delivery of the car 13 months ago)

PP3121 · 01-10-2023, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJZ67201

I noticed the car wants to lurch forward when letting up on the brake. Which makes it hard to inch up forward when parking in my garage. Maybe it’s a related issue?

Had a very similar experience when first started driving. Chalked it up to a break-in period for the brakes. However, situation continues just not as much or as strongly as initially. Does make getting close to a wall in a tight spot a bit uneasy.

e36uulm · 01-10-2023, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PP3121

Had a very similar experience when first started driving. Chalked it up to a break-in period for the brakes. However, situation continues just not as much or as strongly as initially. Does make getting close to a wall in a tight spot a bit uneasy.

It’s not related to the brakes at all (although you are right, the Brembos can be very touchy when they are cold. However, that does get better overtime). It happens after you’re stopped and sitting for a moment, that’s when you feel the engine misfire… it’s a very subtle shutter that goes throughout the whole car.

TJZ67201 · 01-10-2023, 05:47 PM

I think PP3121 and I are experiencing something different. I would in no way attribute what I experienced coming to a stop as a missfire or near-stalling. I thought the described issue might be the same, but it seems like they are different

Invisiblename · 01-11-2023, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PP3121

Had a very similar experience when first started driving. Chalked it up to a break-in period for the brakes. However, situation continues just not as much or as strongly as initially. Does make getting close to a wall in a tight spot a bit uneasy.

Do you turn auto hold off when trying to park close to a wall? If not, try that - you will see a marked difference.

PP3121 · 01-11-2023, 05:18 AM

Yes, sounds like different experiences. I believe mine are/were more brake-related. I have turned the Auto Stop off, and there is a big difference. Thanks for pointing that out.

polakai · 01-11-2023, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburg

I have also been experiencing this. Haven't brought it in or called the dealership. Interesting to realize this is a relatively new 'thing' - since the weather turned cold. That being said, it didn't happen last winter (I took delivery of the car 13 months ago)

Hearing that you haven't experienced this last winter makes me wonder if it's a software-related issue.
We all got a software update a couple of months ago, maybe it somehow impacted how the computer controls the engine and auto start/stop...

mburg · 01-11-2023, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polakai

Hearing that you haven't experienced this last winter makes me wonder if it's a software-related issue.
We all got a software update a couple of months ago, maybe it somehow impacted how the computer controls the engine and auto start/stop...

Interesting thought, but just to be clear, I disable the auto stop/start each time I get in the car. Perhaps in the software update something has been done so that the software 'wants to' turn the engine off when stopped, even though I have disabled that feature.

polakai · 01-11-2023, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburg

Interesting thought, but just to be clear, I disable the auto stop/start each time I get in the car. Perhaps in the software update something has been done so that the software 'wants to' turn the engine off when stopped, even though I have disabled that feature.

Yeah, same here - I manually disable auto start/stop as soon as I'm in the car. Maybe there's some conflict between the computer telling the engine to shut off and checking if this function is disabled/enabled only after.

We should see if it stops happening after it gets warmer to entirely strike out the idea that it could be weather/outside temperature related. Or maybe one of us hear something from dealer/shop

Invisiblename · 01-11-2023, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polakai

Yeah, same here - I manually disable auto start/stop as soon as I'm in the car. Maybe there's some conflict between the computer telling the engine to shut off and checking if this function is disabled/enabled only after.

We should see if it stops happening after it gets warmer to entirely strike out the idea that it could be weather/outside temperature related. Or maybe one of us hear something from dealer/shop

Have you tried the same scenarios with auto-hold off?

polakai · 01-11-2023, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invisiblename

Have you tried the same scenarios with auto-hold off?

It's always off in my case, so my example is not the best. But it may be a proof that it has nothing to do with this feature

Invisiblename · 01-11-2023, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polakai

It's always off in my case, so my example is not the best. But it may be a proof that it has nothing to do with this feature

So you NEVER use Auto-hold' (not auto stop/start)?

polakai · 01-11-2023, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invisiblename

So you NEVER use Auto-hold' (not auto stop/start)?

Correct. Basically, I have a setup of:
Auto Start/Stop - Always off
Auto hold - Always off

And I'm experiencing the shuddering time to time when I'm on red light and holding my foot on the brake, and I also experienced it a few times when I was in "Parking" but with engine running in idle mode.

01-08-2023, 02:29 PM	#1
old_man_feet Private 54 Rep 64 Posts Drives: '22 230i Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: OH iTrader: (0)	*UPDATE #3 Vanos Actuator*'22 230i shuddering at stop lights. Is this normal?* '22 230i ~12.5k miles over ~10 months. After driving for any amount of time w/ Start/Stop turned off and the car is warmed up I experience shuddering at stop lights. It doesn't matter what drive mode I have been driving in. I drive normal mode on city streets and country roads and ECO 90% of the time on the highway commute. It feels exactly like the car wants to shut off for the Stop/Start feature but it keeps running. It will do this once or twice during a stop light cycle. I mentioned this to the SA while making my appointment for my next oil change next week. He said it was normal. "It want's to shut off but you disabled that so it just keeps running. It's normal." That sounds like BS to me. It's really bad, extremely noticeable and just doesn't seem right to me. I don't remember it doing that when I got the car in April and it seems like it's getting worse during the past couple of months. Could this just be a winter gas thing? Always 91 or 93 octane from Marathon or Shell. Thanks UPDATE Monday Oil Change They were able to duplicate the issue. I was asked about what fuel I was using. (see above) "the shop foreman wants to keep it to let it go to sleep and recheck it tomorrow." Tuesday Replaced Spark Plugs Looking into mis-fire Wednesday "Odd Situation" Looking into new coils "How long has this been happening?" Since August/Sept I mentioned you guys here on g42_BP mentioning the last Software push could have caused it. "Appreciate it, we are going to do an update to eliminate that as a possibility tomorrow." Took fuel samples, looks good. May drain tank tomorrow. That's all for now. I hope I'm not putting you on blast by putting this out. You have been outstanding and I couldn't have asked for better service. You guys are doing a great job. Thank you for keeping me informed. ** Update Two ** Car has been at the dealer since Tuesday. Loaner is a 430i w/ M package so that's very nice. A little to big for me though. So here is all I have for now from my SA. "Good afternoon Old_Man_Feet, I have our shop foremen working on this, he has been in communications with BMW technical team, they have another case just like this one, we were looking for a like vehicle to check against yours however we have no 230's here, this engine is very different than say a 228, we are being told that this is a normal occurrence for that vehicle type, we are still checking & communicating." I'll update when I get it back, hopefully this week. Last edited by old_man_feet; 04-29-2023 at 09:25 PM.. Reason: Update on Issue
	Appreciate 2 polakai46.50 e36uulm92.50 Tweet Quote

01-08-2023, 06:55 PM	#2
redcars Second Lieutenant 102 Rep 228 Posts Drives: 228xi Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Is it the AC clutch engaging? It can be so quiet and smooth that it feels the engine shut off until the AC kicks in.
	Appreciate 1 old_man_feet53.50 Quote

01-10-2023, 11:52 AM	#4
e36uulm Private 93 Rep 63 Posts Drives: E36, E46, G42 Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	I have a 2022 230i with about 10k on it as well and I know exactly what you are talking about. It doesn’t happen every day and it doesn’t matter if the air conditioning is on or not. With stop start disabled you’ll pull up to a stop and you’ll feel a little shutter in the engine, like the car is trying to stall or misfire. I had it looked at one time but there were no codes and so the mechanics at my dealership couldn’t find anything. I only ever put namebrand 93 octane in the car so I doubt it’s the gas. I think it’s just part of the car’s personality… Also, don’t talk to the service writer they don’t know what they’re doing. Get the head mechanic to go for a ride in the car with you. That’s what I did.
	Appreciate 1 old_man_feet53.50 Quote

01-10-2023, 02:27 PM	#5
polakai Enlisted Member 47 Rep 39 Posts Drives: 2022 BMW 230i (G42) TNM Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Brooklyn, NY iTrader: (0)	I drive '22 230i since April and have the same issue that started as soon as cold weather came to NY. Based on my research B48 engine has this issue across other models (3 and 4 series G generation), and it usually happens for everybody in cold weather conditions only (which is the same for me because it started in December). I'll look for all the forum topics I read to share them here. But basically, people are saying that it's due to B48 specific (being 4-cyl) + lack of extra "amortization" details that are installed on higher/more expansive models to mitigate these vibrations. So it's not a mechanical problem, apparently. P.S. excuse my English, def not the best tech vocabulary, and grammar is just bad Last edited by polakai; 01-10-2023 at 03:40 PM..
	Appreciate 1 old_man_feet53.50 Quote

01-10-2023, 03:02 PM	#6
Cwatt79 Private 103 Rep 85 Posts Drives: 2023 230i M Sport Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: North Carolina iTrader: (0)	This is interesting. I've never noticed this, but I leave stop/start enabled. I'm curious to see if I would notice it with stop/start disabled, but I don't necessarily want to go looking for problems
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-09-2023, 07:40 AM	#3
Cwatt79 Private 103 Rep 85 Posts Drives: 2023 230i M Sport Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: North Carolina iTrader: (0)	Over 2,000 miles on my 230i and I haven't noticed anything like this, so I'd confirm your hunch that it isn't normal.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-10-2023, 03:06 PM	#7
nannertime New Member 9 Rep 10 Posts Drives: '23 m240i rwd Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	are you able to record it and upload a video of it?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-10-2023, 03:33 PM	#8
TJZ67201 Captain 844 Rep 748 Posts Drives: '23 M240i Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Naperville, IL iTrader: (0)	I noticed that my M240i kinda wants to lurch when coming to a stop with Start/Stop disabled. It makes it a bit difficult to come to a very smooth stop, however, I guess I learned to stop differently where it’s not so much a problem for me. I get that I have a different engine, but I believe we have the same ZF trans? To me, it seems like an issue with the torque converter engagement. I noticed the car wants to lurch forward when letting up on the brake. Which makes it hard to inch up forward when parking in my garage. Maybe it’s a related issue?
	Appreciate 1 PP3121357.50 Quote

01-10-2023, 04:10 PM	#10
mburg MBurg 63 Rep 236 Posts Drives: '22 230 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	I have also been experiencing this. Haven't brought it in or called the dealership. Interesting to realize this is a relatively new 'thing' - since the weather turned cold. That being said, it didn't happen last winter (I took delivery of the car 13 months ago)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-10-2023, 05:47 PM	#13
TJZ67201 Captain 844 Rep 748 Posts Drives: '23 M240i Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Naperville, IL iTrader: (0)	I think PP3121 and I are experiencing something different. I would in no way attribute what I experienced coming to a stop as a missfire or near-stalling. I thought the described issue might be the same, but it seems like they are different
	Appreciate 1 PP3121357.50 Quote

01-11-2023, 05:18 AM	#15
PP3121 Lieutenant 358 Rep 448 Posts Drives: 2023 M240i Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: NE iTrader: (0)	Yes, sounds like different experiences. I believe mine are/were more brake-related. I have turned the Auto Stop off, and there is a big difference. Thanks for pointing that out.
	Appreciate 1 Invisiblename353.50 Quote