[Cwatt79]

I wanted to add a note that I leave stop/start ON 95% of the time - it doesn't bother me like it seems to bother most. Anyway, the shuddering still happens with stop/start activated, and it will happen a couple seconds before the engine shuts down at a stop. In this sense it does not seem to be related to stop/start.

[e36uulm]

So, I have something of an update, but no resolution.

TLDR: The misfire issue could not be reproduced so they updated the software (I'm now on 11/2022.50).

On the way home I felt the misfire again. Additional evidence that a software update is not the solution.

[old_man_feet]

Another update. Issue is still happening on a daily basis. Probably every other stop it happens. I haven't been able to nail down a specific driving style or speed that makes it better or worse.

The car is certainly drivable but it's embarrassing, annoying and not what I would expect from this brand. Every time I have a passenger in the car I will eventually have to explain what the hell is going on. It's getting old very fast.

I did contact my SA and have scheduled an appt for next month. I will keep all y'all up to date for sure. Good luck guys.

[redcars]

Maybe plug into the OBDII port and record when it happens.

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by Cwatt79

I wanted to add a note that I leave stop/start ON 95% of the time - it doesn't bother me like it seems to bother most. Anyway, the shuddering still happens with stop/start activated, and it will happen a couple seconds before the engine shuts down at a stop. In this sense it does not seem to be related to stop/start.

if you leave stop start on 95 percent of the time, how do you know it's not related to stop/start being activated?? Try running with it always off for an extended period and see it you still have the problem. I turn mine off prior to starting, always.

[Cwatt79]

Originally Posted by danallxt

if you leave stop start on 95 percent of the time, how do you know it's not related to stop/start being activated?? Try running with it always off for an extended period and see it you still have the problem. I turn mine off prior to starting, always.

The reason I stated that is because others on this thread have stated that they keep stop/start deactivated and experience the same issue. I didn't say I "know" it's not related. I said "it does not seem to be related." Not claiming to have any answers. Just contributing to the thread with pertinent info and making observations.

[Hoch_Zwei]

Just another data point- My '23 230i (9/22 build), 2,500 miles, has the same shuddering issue. The Auto-Hold is off, Auto Stop/Start is off. It happens in Park and Drive, engine hot or cold during idle (stopped at a red light in Drive, idling in Park at the ATM). No 'Check Engine' light on the dash. Feels like the car is about to stall, but then it recovers. It makes the whole car shake in a very noticeable way.

I am bringing it in on 4/10 to have it looked at. I'll report back with what they find. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in the meantime to see if there is any new info. Hoping you all find a solution.

[e36uulm]

Originally Posted by Hoch_Zwei

Just another data point- My '23 230i (9/22 build), 2,500 miles, has the same shuddering issue. The Auto-Hold is off, Auto Stop/Start is off. It happens in Park and Drive, engine hot or cold during idle (stopped at a red light in Drive, idling in Park at the ATM). No 'Check Engine' light on the dash. Feels like the car is about to stall, but then it recovers. It makes the whole car shake in a very noticeable way.

I am bringing it in on 4/10 to have it looked at. I'll report back with what they find. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in the meantime to see if there is any new info. Hoping you all find a solution.

Thanks for the data point. I was wondering if it was a common issue among G42 230's or if it was specific to those of us with early builds.

Good luck.

[bsantini]

I traced my shudder to the AC COMPRESSOR cycling. Turning off the AC STOPPED THE SHUDDERING

[RockCrusher]

Because I have plans to trade in my 230i for a M2 sometime in April I have not been driving the 230i very much. I'd like to show up at the dealer with just under 7000 miles on my 230i. (It had 6766 miles on it when I sent in the pics for a trade in appraisal and it is 200 miles to the dealer.)

But I used the car the other day and after parking it in the garage I noticed a bit of a rough idle. A bit of a lumpy idle. Just fueled up with 91 ethanol free which I have used mostly ever since I moved to where I am now (Benton County AR).

Based on my experience with other cars I'm thinking the problem is lack of use. The battery gets low. While the engine starts with no drama I have experienced odd behavior from other cars -- my 2018 Hellcat was the "worst" in this regard -- from lack of use. But my 2020 Scat Pack was a close 2nd...

Will continue to limit use of the 230i to keep the miles from accumulating. If the M2 deal doesn't happen then I will resume driving the 230i on a regular basis and I'll see if the shuddering continues or goes away.

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Because I have plans to trade in my 230i for a M2 sometime in April I have not been driving the 230i very much. I'd like to show up at the dealer with just under 7000 miles on my 230i. (It had 6766 miles on it when I sent in the pics for a trade in appraisal and it is 200 miles to the dealer.)

But I used the car the other day and after parking it in the garage I noticed a bit of a rough idle. A bit of a lumpy idle. Just fueled up with 91 ethanol free which I have used mostly ever since I moved to where I am now (Benton County AR).

Based on my experience with other cars I'm thinking the problem is lack of use. The battery gets low. While the engine starts with no drama I have experienced odd behavior from other cars -- my 2018 Hellcat was the "worst" in this regard -- from lack of use. But my 2020 Scat Pack was a close 2nd...

Will continue to limit use of the 230i to keep the miles from accumulating. If the M2 deal doesn't happen then I will resume driving the 230i on a regular basis and I'll see if the shuddering continues or goes away.

that's kinda strange, at first i thought old ethanol gasoline but you mentioned ethanol free gasoline. I still would still try something like stabil in case it is collecting condensation just sitting? Low battery should make no difference if it had enough juice to start the car...so I'm thinking fuel? Best bet is when you do drive it, once to operating temps is to really wring it out and drive the snot out of it a few times, or even once and see if that helps. Could be carboned up/slighlty fouled plugs?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by danallxt

that's kinda strange, at first i thought old ethanol gasoline but you mentioned ethanol free gasoline. I still would still try something like stabil in case it is collecting condensation just sitting? Low battery should make no difference if it had enough juice to start the car...so I'm thinking fuel? Best bet is when you do drive it, once to operating temps is to really wring it out and drive the snot out of it a few times, or even once and see if that helps. Could be carboned up/slighlty fouled plugs?

Never had gasoline go stale in under 6 months. And this wasn't my car but a family member's car. My cars get used often enough and fueled often enough there is no chance the fuel will go stale.

(A Youtube test of fuel stabilizers found the test engine which started with the least amount of effort -- hand pull start -- was the engine fueled with just plain old 87 E10. The other engines were fueled with a blend of the fuel and a stabilizer. A few engines were very hard to start and would run then die. Fuel stabilizer is a waste. (One favorite consists of a good measure of Kerosene...))

Also there is no appreciable amount of condensation. Modern fuel tanks don't breathe like tanks of old. And as the fuel pump runs it directs some of its output back into the fuel tank to stir/agitate the fuel to address any stratification and to ensure good fuel circulation around the fuel pump to keep it cool.

A low battery can start the engine with in my experience just a hint of a slow crank but it takes just one cylinder to go through a full intake/compression/power cycle to fire that cylinder and once one cylinder fires they all follow promptly. Anyone who has kick started a motorcycle engine learns this very quickly. (As a 125lb weakling in my 20s I was able to start my H-D Sportser engine but it took me standing on the crank pedal with both feet so I could use all of my weight.)

But what can happen is with a low battery the initial engine start load causes the battery voltage to drop very low. This low power glitches the car's electronics. The car app (Performance Pages) in my Hellcat failed to load. Or less often the LCD would be filled with wide vertical blue bars. And the very worse symptom was the +paddle shifter would cause a *down shift* rather than an up shift.

It was when I had the car in for this shifting problem -- which during the ride along didn't happen once -- but the shop foreman still looked into it and the first thing he did was pull out proprietary error codes. Low voltage codes were present. When he told me that a light bulb went off. I had driven the Hellcat the day before 60+ miles and the +paddle shifter was misbehaving almost every shift. Of course all that driving topped up the battery so the next day with the shop foreman in the passenger seat the shifter was perfect.

Initially like the Hellcat the Scat Pack manifested no signs of any issues from lack of use. I bought the car in Nov. 2020 and bad weather kept it garaged most of the winter. But the 2nd winter when I did use the car on a good day that's when I noticed signs of low battery power.

The Scat Pack was a manual so no shifter issues. But Performance Pages while it loaded every time varied in the amount of time it took to load. Sometimes it would load before I even got the car out of garage. Other times I'd be 3 or 4 miles down the road before it would finally load.

Realizing what was going on I just drove the car more often.

If the M2 purchase goes through I'll see how the M2 fares with intermittent use. Or maybe not. I might drive it more since I have no plans on moving to another car.

If the M2 purchase doesn't happen then I will (probably) keep the 230i and just use it more. I say probably but I may try for a M240i.

[RockCrusher]

Had to move the 230i yesterday so work could be done on the overhead garage door opener. So engine start pull car out of the way shut off engine. Less than an hour later start engine put car back in garage.

Didn't bother to check for shuddering.

Last night with light traffic decided to take the 230i out. However, after having a private friendly discussion with a forum member rather than seek to maintain a steady speed and steady engine RPMs I engaged in more coasting. Didn't go crazy but I used every reasonable opportunity to let the car coast and I observed on the dash that the battery was being charged. Guess that is the Intelligent Alternator Control (IGR [sic] in BMW TLA).

Oh, upon cold start I let the engine idle a bit and it was not shuddering. I turned on the A/C. NO shudder.

So I drove ended up putting over 20 miles on the car. Mix of city driving and some freeway driving.

At stop lights the engine was smooth.

After the drive at home after putting the car in the garage I let it idle and still no shuddering.

I know with other cars it took some time -- and some words from the dealer service department shop foreman -- before I understood the reason for the odd behavior of one of my cars then and later when I had a 2nd car of the same brand. And that reason was lack of use resulting in a low 12V battery which low power glitched upon engine start.

However, I'm not convinced this is what accounts for the shuddering behavior of the 230i.

Because the car is earmarked as a trade in for a soon to be completed M2 purchase I'll not drive the 230i any more than probably once for another 20 miles before I drive it 200 miles to trade it in.

If the deal goes down I don't think the M2 will sit unused for long. Well, at least until next winter and bad weather arrive.

If the deal doesn't go down I could just decide to be happy with the 230i (it is a fine car and I'm not at all disappointed in it) and will then drive it more.

[e36uulm]

Originally Posted by bsantini

I traced my shudder to the AC COMPRESSOR cycling. Turning off the AC STOPPED THE SHUDDERING

Thanks for the suggestion. I gave this one a try (drove with AC and heat off), still experienced the issue.

I think one way to describe it would be like a prolonged stutter or misfire coming from the engine and shaking the whole car when at a red-light, not the momentary blip of a compressor turning on or off.

[old_man_feet]

Originally Posted by e36uulm

Thanks for the suggestion. I gave this one a try (drove with AC and heat off), still experienced the issue.

I think one way to describe it would be like a prolonged stutter or misfire coming from the engine and shaking the whole car when at a red-light, not the momentary blip of a compressor turning on or off.

I tried to trace it down to the A/C compressor after a suggestion from someone here when I first posted. I didn't find any relationship between the two.

I've posted an update in the original post. Good luck, it looks like BMW is now aware of this issue. What they do about it anyone's guess, lol.

[maggies_dad]

i think I notice what you all are describing in my 23' 230 build date Jan 2023 as well.

I predominantly drive with auto stop/start turned off as well. when feeling the car shake, I don't know that I would describe it as the start/stop function "trying to work" only because that system engages very quickly after coming to a stop, and theres little to no shaking of the car when the engine shuts itself off, the car/engine only shakes when turning on just like a normal start up, but anyway...

my car will do this periodically and usually only when stopped for extended periods, not right after coming to a stop and idling. for example the other night it did it briefly at a red light after being stopped for 20-25 sec. sometimes it's more noticeable than other times. sometimes it will happen 2-3x while stopped, sometimes not at all.

now I'm not a mechanic but have always felt comfortable DIY with certain maintenance & repair items on my past cars/motorcycles but I would normally associate something like this to being fuel related such as the fuel pump, but I think like others have stated I don't see any change in RPMs on the dash when this happens either. now I don't know if thats cus the dash is electronic or not but whatever. or if this was a much older car, something with the carburetor. I also wonder if it's just the ECU programming and idle set at an extremely low level to the point where the car is at risk of stalling. not sure, but will need to take note if I notice this more or less when the car is warm/cold or if that doesn't matter. don't think I've noticed this at all after a cold start and when idling in my driveway...

but bottom line for me is at this point I don't know that it feels worth bringing in for service just for this, but I will keep an eye out for service bulletins and maybe bring it up when I take the car in for it's first service (if I remember).

[Hoch_Zwei]

Originally Posted by Hoch_Zwei

Just another data point- My '23 230i (9/22 build), 2,500 miles, has the same shuddering issue. The Auto-Hold is off, Auto Stop/Start is off. It happens in Park and Drive, engine hot or cold during idle (stopped at a red light in Drive, idling in Park at the ATM). No 'Check Engine' light on the dash. Feels like the car is about to stall, but then it recovers. It makes the whole car shake in a very noticeable way.

I am bringing it in on 4/10 to have it looked at. I'll report back with what they find. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in the meantime to see if there is any new info. Hoping you all find a solution.

Here's the update on the service visit from 4/10:

They kept the car Monday - Thursday. They were able to duplicate the issue and opened a case with BMW Engineering. There were no active or stored trouble codes, nor were there any stored misfires (strange) that could be found with the scan tool.

The recommendation from BMW Engineering included checking for an idle fuel pressure of 51 bar (725 psi) at idle, according to specifications BMW published. The technician found around 130 bar (1,885 psi). BMW Engineering said to check another car on the lot to compare. That car was also around 130 bar at idle. The technician said that BMW then considered the condition normal, and that since there were no problems indicated by the scan tool, the car was good to go although the weird idle problem remained and the fuel pressure was out of spec. It sounds really strange to me that there is a published spec, but since both cars were outside the published spec they then considered it normal. I'm glad I didn't bring it in for a flat tire only have it compared to another car with a flat tire...

Anyway, from what the tech said, the case is still open with BMW Engineering and there may be a software fix. His recommendation was to "Keep an eye on it" and to bring it in if it gets any worse. He also mentioned to bring it up whenever I bring it in for service in case the Engineering Team comes up with a fix (software update or otherwise). He also mentioned that there was another car in the shop for the same exact issue, also equipped with the B48 engine.

So, it seems like the problem isn't just confined to just a few cars, and it seems to be considered more of a 'Noise / Vibration / Harshness' issue by BMW rather than a mechanical fault or something that is causing harm to the car.

If you're reading this and you're experiencing the issue and you haven't yet brought it up to your Service Advisor, I recommend doing so. The issue might not get attention from BMW unless enough people make a complaint about it.

Best of luck to everyone in getting this resolved.

[danallxt]

humm, above post, verrry interesting. Just because the other car was also at 130 doesn't mean it's correct, both could be off. That is something the techs should positively verify.....51 bar or 130 which is correct?

also

I don't see any change in RPMs on the dash when this happens either. now I don't know if thats cus the dash is electronic or not but whatever. or if this was a much older car, something with the carburetor. I also wonder if it's just the ECU programming and idle set at an extremely low level to the point where the car is at risk of stalling

that seems really strange, if it is a kinda almost stall that should show up with a change in RPM. I would closely monitor RPM when this occurs...anyway if not reflected in RPM I'm wondering if its transmission related??

[maggies_dad]

Originally Posted by danallxt

that seems really strange, if it is a kinda almost stall that should show up with a change in RPM. I would closely monitor RPM when this occurs...anyway if not reflected in RPM I'm wondering if its transmission related??

I did watch the tach when it occured, a few times...

[old_man_feet]

Sorry it's taken me so long to update this issue. Here's what I recieved from my SA after taking the car in for the second time. I dropped it off on a Tuesday and picked it up the following Tues/Wed, (I can't remember atm).

"The shop foreman was working with the technician and communicating with BMW engineering on this the entire time, they had him checking various items, as previously mentioned BMW has another case just like this that is specific to that engine, what actually fixed it was replacement of the vanos actuators, they were installed last evening and driven then, we let the vehicle go to sleep and drove it several miles today as well, the condition is no longer present."

"Good afternoon, I saw your survey and the question/request you made. It is a situation BMW themselves has only seen twice, it is specific to that engine meaning has never occurred on the other 2 series with the other available engine. Between BMW engineering and our shop foreman it was something that could have created the concern, per BMW's direction we replaced the actuators & retested to find it did correct the issue. The condition did not set any faults making it challenging to isolate, with this reported to BMW it will help them correct the only other vehicle that they have seen with this condition. We can't see the future but feel you should not see the condition again. I hope this helps."

My thoughts: The shuddering is gone for now. BUT. I do feel a kind of wiggle on occasion that wasn't there previously. By wiggle I mean when I'm sitting at a stoplight/sign the car will slightly, slightly, wiggle sideways a few times, maybe half a cm. It's only detected by the sensors in my butt to be honest. If someone else were to drive the car I'm sure they would not think it's happening. Maybe I'm being hyper aware but it is what it is.

Overall I'm happy with the service and communication w/ my SA. I'll just have to keep my butt sensors tuned in. If anything else happens I'll post. Best of luck to anyone else that's experiencing the same issue. From what I've read here, I do find it hard to believe there are only two casees with the 230 that are reported though.

[e36uulm]

I completely agree; it is hard to believe they've only seen this on two cars...

Thank you very much for working on this and providing us with a lead to chase down with our SA's.

I'll share my results when I have time to take my car in.

[old_man_feet]

Small update. It's getting worse since I updated last, went from once every couple of weeks to daily at a certain spot during my morning commute. It's after ~20 min on the highway at 70-80mph, exiting a downhill ramp (med hard braking) and sitting at the light. Everyday last week.

Will have to sched another appt soon. Car is deff drivable but something is not right.